Irfan Baloch
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Asalam O Alikum
You have a valid point but
There are handful countries which are making Fighter-jets.
There are handful countries which are making drones.
There are handful countries which are making Tanks.
There are handful countries which are making Missiles.
There are handful countries which are making Submarines.
There are handful countries which are making Frigates.
There are handful countries which are making Nukes.
So i think we are capable enough to join in that Handful Club of Jet-Engine Country as we have history of joining in Handful club. Jet-Engine Technology is not out of the world and i don't think that it is that difficult people seems to make it. There are enough geeks in our country but no body is serious enough or else no body let them to get them together and do some good thing for their country.
Jazak ALLAH
no all those aircraft employ full digital fbw system which is the basics of being 4th generation, they have IRST capability the US tested IRST capability on the F-100 vodoo. All of these aircraft are true multi-role fighter jets that can accomplish multimissions individually without having to touch down and reload, the concept of a 4th generation fighter is that its a force multiplier in single missions, the JF-17 and F-20 are not like this, there design is such that they carry a light payload, neither of these jet planes carry A fully FBW system, and none of them are multi-mission or force multipliers, they don't have the radar, the payload or a powerful enough engine to be considered 4th generation, all those aircraft you've mentioned, are equipped with powerful engines, have a composite airframe which is less detectable, has a full glass cockpit, the differences are night and day and you're blind not to see it. Like i said the JF-17 has the potential to be 4th generation through a better radar and enginedon't you think it's time to review previous post
Sir by these standards even these aircrafts are not 4th gen .... as they lack supercruise ability, reduced radar cross section, IRST sensors, Thrust vectoring plz elaborate in detail as requested previously ....
answer me this question is the israeli KFIR block 60 a 4th generation fighter? the answer is NO. its a 3rd generation fighter with a 3rd generation airframe with avionics of a 4th generation fighter jet, its DESIGN is 3rd generation, based off the stolen airframe of a french Mirage III, the israelis decided to add canards to it to make comparable to a 4th generation fighter in a similar way DSI intakes and leading edge extensions were added to the JF-17. (the JF-17 is not a mig-21 replica but its design is not unique and has not been influenced by fighters that gave birth to the 4th gen category)going by this logic .... all under mention aircraft are similar
Sir either you are confused or trying to make me confuse deliberately on the one hand you said 'sophisticated avionics' being one such characteristics which make a jet 4th gen & 'JFT comparable to this standard' ...
but in the same sentence you also says
If JF-17 lacks in radar, don't have IRST nor having FBW .... how is it comparable to 4th gen jet .... 'avionics wise' ???
BTW Sir you mention Mig 29, J-10A/B, mirage 2000/05 earlier in this very same post as 4th gen jet, but a illiterate person like me wonder how these jets are 4th gen when these jet also does not employ IRST 'better RADAR' MiG-29 even lacks FBW (other than MiG-29K version) ....
What in Fighter Jet Aviation Industry is considered as Medium Tech & what is consider High Tech ...... ???
you are using so many jargons & making things difficult to understand .... plz explain in layman terms
what make JF-17 a 3.5 gen jet & what make J-10 A/B, MiG-29, mirage 2000/05 a 4th gen jet .... ???
answer me this question is the israeli KFIR block 60 a 4th generation fighter? the answer is NO. its a 3rd generation fighter with a 3rd generation airframe with avionics of a 4th generation fighter jet, its DESIGN is 3rd generation, based off the stolen airframe of a french Mirage III, the israelis decided to add canards to it to make comparable to a 4th generation fighter in a similar way DSI intakes and leading edge extensions were added to the JF-17. (the JF-17 is not a mig-21 replica but its design is not unique and has not been influenced by fighters that gave birth to the 4th gen category)
no sir you're confused, the JF-17s and F-20s design came and were introduce in an age where the world had already seen in the F-16, FA/18, Mig-29, SU-27, F-15,mirage 2000 this represented a new era of fighter design, the JF-17s design doesn't come close to this the J-10 is influenced by the Israeli Lavi which borrowed its design from a upped version of the F-16, the JF-17 design is a hybrid between a 3rd and 4th generation fighter, even indias LCA is the same.
You are correct but China already gain much experience so we should launch J.V in this field also with China to gain experience.Truth be told, we require some components to be imported for these weapons except nukes and missiles.
Now technically yes, we can build Jet engines completely in our country if we are hell bent on doing so and we are willing to commit resources for it. Those resources are mountains of cash, decades of time, oceans of patience with failures, vast pool of highly trained experienced manpower and of course one of world's most advanced engineering facilities which again we will have to make ourselves.
Practically speaking, it needs $50-70 billion (that's Pakistan's entire foreign debt), 30-50 years of research and development which will meet several failures and set backs, and top class technical universities which produce top calibre scientists in metallurgy, chemistry, fluid dynamics, mechanical engineering, industrial engineering and what not. And after all this there is no guarantee we will succeed. It may just be a spectacular fail in the end.
Please know this my friend, compared to jet engine of decent quality, building a nuclear bomb is like putting together a LEGO set!
so FBW is the only basis upon which a jet becomes 4th gen .... ??no all those aircraft employ full digital fbw system which is the basics of being 4th generation,
so are you implying in this new post that all these earlier mention capabilities are just secondary requirements ... ??revolutionary characteristics including sophisticated avionics, DIGITAL FBW, supercruise ability, reduced radar cross section, IRST sensors, Thrust vectoring, improved maneuverability some of these things are necessary to be regarded as 4th generation.
a 4th generation fighter are fighters like the F-16C/D,F/A-18, mirage 2000/05,F-14,SU-30,Mig 29, J-10A/B, JAS-39C/D, F-15C/D
F-100 (F-101 vodoo) is a 4th gen fighter jets .... ?? (my mistake true multi-role 4th gen fighter jet ... ?)they have IRST capability the US tested IRST capability on the F-100 vodoo.
All of these aircraft are true multi-role fighter jets that can accomplish multimissions individually without having to touch down and reload,
the concept of a 4th generation fighter is that its a force multiplier in single missions,
these word are gem Sir ... really a gem to be remember & chant daily (3 times a day)the JF-17 and F-20 are not like this, there design is such that they carry a light payload, neither of these jet planes carry A fully FBW system, and none of them are multi-mission or force multipliers, they don't have the radar, the payload or a powerful enough engine to be considered 4th generation,
all those aircraft you've mentioned, are equipped with powerful engines, have a composite airframe which is less detectable
plz also mention their thrust to weight ratio as wellF-16C/D,F/A-18, mirage 2000/05,F-14,SU-30,Mig 29, J-10A/B, JAS-39C/D, F-15C/D
plz post pic of JF-17 cockpit ....has a full glass cockpit,
literally .....the differences are night and day and you're blind not to see it.
Like i said the JF-17 has the potential to be 4th generation through a better radar and engine
let me clear that for you export orders will be taken care off specifically by CAC while kamra while take care of the domestic requirements as said before by different officials so not in 2016 or 2017 but by 2018 or 2019 they can get there required JF's and as i said they don't need JF's we all know that as they have M2k and Rafale but they need the pilots and support as i said before ...if they order F-17 today their delivery date would be in 2018-19. and setting ups and training will also take a year to learn the machine very well. so Qatari Airforce will master the F-17 in 2020 means 4 year from now and nobody knows what will happen in those 4 years...
and by the way QAF have M2k which is absolute machine for ground bombing..
Here is an update from Alan Warnes on this topic.
View attachment 292642
Sqn Ldr Jawad getting ready to take off. Sqn Ldr Khalid Senior Engg Officer is accompanying him #PAFinQatar
Qataris are planning to replace their Mirage 2000 fleet with Rafaels & Alpha Jet fleet with potent JF-17 Thunders according to Alan Warnes.