PAF is in Qatar with JF-17s and Mushaks.

[Irfan Baloch]

Can someone explain this to me?
@Horus @HRK @WebMaster @Zarvan @Bratva @Windjammer

photoshop
explained

 

[Paksanity]

Asalam O Alikum

You have a valid point but

There are handful countries which are making Fighter-jets.
There are handful countries which are making drones.
There are handful countries which are making Tanks.
There are handful countries which are making Missiles.
There are handful countries which are making Submarines.
There are handful countries which are making Frigates.
There are handful countries which are making Nukes.

So i think we are capable enough to join in that Handful Club of Jet-Engine Country as we have history of joining in Handful club. Jet-Engine Technology is not out of the world and i don't think that it is that difficult people seems to make it. There are enough geeks in our country but no body is serious enough or else no body let them to get them together and do some good thing for their country.

Jazak ALLAH

Truth be told, we require some components to be imported for these weapons except nukes and missiles.

Now technically yes, we can build Jet engines completely in our country if we are hell bent on doing so and we are willing to commit resources for it. Those resources are mountains of cash, decades of time, oceans of patience with failures, vast pool of highly trained experienced manpower and of course one of world's most advanced engineering facilities which again we will have to make ourselves.

Practically speaking, it needs $50-70 billion (that's Pakistan's entire foreign debt), 30-50 years of research and development which will meet several failures and set backs, and top class technical universities which produce top calibre scientists in metallurgy, chemistry, fluid dynamics, mechanical engineering, industrial engineering and what not. And after all this there is no guarantee we will succeed. It may just be a spectacular fail in the end.

Please know this my friend, compared to jet engine of decent quality, building a nuclear bomb is like putting together a LEGO set!

 

[thrilainmanila]

don't you think it's time to review previous post



Sir by these standards even these aircrafts are not 4th gen .... as they lack supercruise ability, reduced radar cross section, IRST sensors, Thrust vectoring plz elaborate in detail as requested previously ....

no all those aircraft employ full digital fbw system which is the basics of being 4th generation, they have IRST capability the US tested IRST capability on the F-100 vodoo. All of these aircraft are true multi-role fighter jets that can accomplish multimissions individually without having to touch down and reload, the concept of a 4th generation fighter is that its a force multiplier in single missions, the JF-17 and F-20 are not like this, there design is such that they carry a light payload, neither of these jet planes carry A fully FBW system, and none of them are multi-mission or force multipliers, they don't have the radar, the payload or a powerful enough engine to be considered 4th generation, all those aircraft you've mentioned, are equipped with powerful engines, have a composite airframe which is less detectable, has a full glass cockpit, the differences are night and day and you're blind not to see it. Like i said the JF-17 has the potential to be 4th generation through a better radar and engine

 

[thrilainmanila]

going by this logic .... all under mention aircraft are similar

Sir either you are confused or trying to make me confuse deliberately on the one hand you said 'sophisticated avionics' being one such characteristics which make a jet 4th gen & 'JFT comparable to this standard' ...

but in the same sentence you also says



If JF-17 lacks in radar, don't have IRST nor having FBW .... how is it comparable to 4th gen jet .... 'avionics wise' ???

BTW Sir you mention Mig 29, J-10A/B, mirage 2000/05 earlier in this very same post as 4th gen jet, but a illiterate person like me wonder how these jets are 4th gen when these jet also does not employ IRST 'better RADAR' MiG-29 even lacks FBW (other than MiG-29K version) ....



What in Fighter Jet Aviation Industry is considered as Medium Tech & what is consider High Tech ...... ???

you are using so many jargons & making things difficult to understand .... plz explain in layman terms

what make JF-17 a 3.5 gen jet & what make J-10 A/B, MiG-29, mirage 2000/05 a 4th gen jet .... ???

answer me this question is the israeli KFIR block 60 a 4th generation fighter? the answer is NO. its a 3rd generation fighter with a 3rd generation airframe with avionics of a 4th generation fighter jet, its DESIGN is 3rd generation, based off the stolen airframe of a french Mirage III, the israelis decided to add canards to it to make comparable to a 4th generation fighter in a similar way DSI intakes and leading edge extensions were added to the JF-17. (the JF-17 is not a mig-21 replica but its design is not unique and has not been influenced by fighters that gave birth to the 4th gen category)
no sir you're confused, the JF-17s and F-20s design came and were introduce in an age where the world had already seen in the F-16, FA/18, Mig-29, SU-27, F-15,mirage 2000 this represented a new era of fighter design, the JF-17s design doesn't come close to this the J-10 is influenced by the Israeli Lavi which borrowed its design from a upped version of the F-16, the JF-17 design is a hybrid between a 3rd and 4th generation fighter, even indias LCA is the same.

 

[atlantis_cn]

answer me this question is the israeli KFIR block 60 a 4th generation fighter? the answer is NO. its a 3rd generation fighter with a 3rd generation airframe with avionics of a 4th generation fighter jet, its DESIGN is 3rd generation, based off the stolen airframe of a french Mirage III, the israelis decided to add canards to it to make comparable to a 4th generation fighter in a similar way DSI intakes and leading edge extensions were added to the JF-17. (the JF-17 is not a mig-21 replica but its design is not unique and has not been influenced by fighters that gave birth to the 4th gen category)
no sir you're confused, the JF-17s and F-20s design came and were introduce in an age where the world had already seen in the F-16, FA/18, Mig-29, SU-27, F-15,mirage 2000 this represented a new era of fighter design, the JF-17s design doesn't come close to this the J-10 is influenced by the Israeli Lavi which borrowed its design from a upped version of the F-16, the JF-17 design is a hybrid between a 3rd and 4th generation fighter, even indias LCA is the same.

Hahahaha... You absolutely have no idea what a JF-17 is. Take a close look at the JF-17 and then tell us your bullshit about a third generation airframe with DSI and LEX added. Tell us which part of JF-17 remind you of a 3rd generation airplane? The vertical stabilizer? The horizontal stabilizer? The shape of the wing? BTY, Which is F-16 style not those triangle shape used by mig-21. The fuselage? The engine? The canopy? Or the nose?

 

[Maarkhoor]

Truth be told, we require some components to be imported for these weapons except nukes and missiles.

Now technically yes, we can build Jet engines completely in our country if we are hell bent on doing so and we are willing to commit resources for it. Those resources are mountains of cash, decades of time, oceans of patience with failures, vast pool of highly trained experienced manpower and of course one of world's most advanced engineering facilities which again we will have to make ourselves.

Practically speaking, it needs $50-70 billion (that's Pakistan's entire foreign debt), 30-50 years of research and development which will meet several failures and set backs, and top class technical universities which produce top calibre scientists in metallurgy, chemistry, fluid dynamics, mechanical engineering, industrial engineering and what not. And after all this there is no guarantee we will succeed. It may just be a spectacular fail in the end.

Please know this my friend, compared to jet engine of decent quality, building a nuclear bomb is like putting together a LEGO set!

You are correct but China already gain much experience so we should launch J.V in this field also with China to gain experience.

 

[HRK]

no all those aircraft employ full digital fbw system which is the basics of being 4th generation,

so FBW is the only basis upon which a jet becomes 4th gen .... ??

Does JF-17 employe this tech or not .... ??

secondly 'FULL FLY BY WIRE' tech is available to JF-17 or not .... ??

BTW you also said

revolutionary characteristics including sophisticated avionics, DIGITAL FBW, supercruise ability, reduced radar cross section, IRST sensors, Thrust vectoring, improved maneuverability some of these things are necessary to be regarded as 4th generation.

so are you implying in this new post that all these earlier mention capabilities are just secondary requirements ... ??

why don't you post your reply in a bit structured manner & make it easy to understand, like

1- Sophisticated Avionics:

What the term avionics mean ??
What systems & subsystems are included, what are excluded ... ??
What systems & subsystems make them Sophisticated Avionics ?? &
What are the Non-Sophisticated Avionics ??
What Avionics package is available to JF-17 ... ??
What is level of Sophistication of JF-17 Avionics ... ??

2- Supercruise ability

What is supercruise ability ??
When it was introduced first time ...??
How many of the '4th gen' Jets are using it ... ??

3- Reduced Radar Cross Section

What is RCS ...??
What is the minimum RCS level which make a fighter aircraft 4th gen ... ??
What is the RCS of different 4th gen fighter jets .... ??
(all those 4th gen Jets you have mention in your previous post specially F-14, Su-30, MiG-29)

a 4th generation fighter are fighters like the F-16C/D,F/A-18, mirage 2000/05,F-14,SU-30,Mig 29, J-10A/B, JAS-39C/D, F-15C/D

And most importantly What is the RCS value of JF-17 ... ??

BTW a secondary question came to my mind by specifying C/D models for F-15, F-16 & Gripen are you implying their A & B models are not 4th gen jets ... ???

4- IRST sensors

How many of 4th gen fighter jet use IRST ... ??
Does F-14, F-16 (A,B,C,D), F-15(A,B,C,D), JAS Gripen -39 (A,B,C,D), Mirage-2000/05 use it ... ??
If not than these aircrafts are not considered as 4th gen jets ... ??

5- Thrust vectoring
How many of jets you have mention in your post as 4th gen jet use it .... ??

they have IRST capability the US tested IRST capability on the F-100 vodoo.

F-100 (F-101 vodoo) is a 4th gen fighter jets .... ?? (my mistake true multi-role 4th gen fighter jet ... ?)

All of these aircraft are true multi-role fighter jets that can accomplish multimissions individually without having to touch down and reload,

oh come on two more Jargons in a single line sentence, plz explain ... in detail

what these two weirdos looking terms 'multimissions & touch down and reload' mean .... ??

the concept of a 4th generation fighter is that its a force multiplier in single missions,

Again another Jargon ... How does this thing work ... ??

& to what degree Jf-17 lack this capability .... ??

the JF-17 and F-20 are not like this, there design is such that they carry a light payload, neither of these jet planes carry A fully FBW system, and none of them are multi-mission or force multipliers, they don't have the radar, the payload or a powerful enough engine to be considered 4th generation,

these word are gem Sir ... really a gem to be remember & chant daily (3 times a day)

Sir what is the payload capacity of

Mirage 2000-05, JAS Gripen-39 (A,B,C,D) & JF-17

What is their engine thrust (both dry & with full afterburner) respectively .... ??

all those aircraft you've mentioned, are equipped with powerful engines, have a composite airframe which is less detectable

First I have not mention any aircraft it's you who have mention those aircrafts .... secondly plz mention ratio of composite material used in the airframe in the following aircraft you mention in your post previously

F-16C/D,F/A-18, mirage 2000/05,F-14,SU-30,Mig 29, J-10A/B, JAS-39C/D, F-15C/D

plz also mention their thrust to weight ratio as well

has a full glass cockpit,

plz post pic of JF-17 cockpit ....

the differences are night and day and you're blind not to see it.

literally .....

Like i said the JF-17 has the potential to be 4th generation through a better radar and engine

What is your CREDENTIALS to say anything about JF-17 ...??

No need to reply me .....

 

[Windjammer]

Beautiful JF-17 souvenir model, presented to HH Emir of Qatar by PAF team in Doha.
2X Sidewinders, 2X BVRs and 2X LGBs. Drop tank on the centre pylon.

 

[Shariq786]

if they order F-17 today their delivery date would be in 2018-19. and setting ups and training will also take a year to learn the machine very well. so Qatari Airforce will master the F-17 in 2020 means 4 year from now and nobody knows what will happen in those 4 years...

and by the way QAF have M2k which is absolute machine for ground bombing..

let me clear that for you export orders will be taken care off specifically by CAC while kamra while take care of the domestic requirements as said before by different officials so not in 2016 or 2017 but by 2018 or 2019 they can get there required JF's and as i said they don't need JF's we all know that as they have M2k and Rafale but they need the pilots and support as i said before ...

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Here is an update from Alan Warnes on this topic.

View attachment 292642
Sqn Ldr Jawad getting ready to take off. Sqn Ldr Khalid Senior Engg Officer is accompanying him #PAFinQatar

https://twitter.com/x/status/697010120442671104

Qataris are planning to replace their Mirage 2000 fleet with Rafaels & Alpha Jet fleet with potent JF-17 Thunders according to Alan Warnes.

ah nice. Great to see my cousin after such a long time. Serving Pakistan bro

 

[wowh550]

Pakistan brothers forever