PAF Heroes Who Surprised India !

[Talon]

I would appreciate if you could back up your claims with evidence regarding his visit to operational air bases during Operation Swift Retort. This is next to impossible.

Anyways, unless, it is from ISPR everything else is hearsay.

another example of PROOF DEKHAO @airomerix

Hi,

That shows OPEN CONFLICT between ISPR and Pak air force---. Tufail is contradicting what ISPR stated---this should never been allowed---.

Paf is subservient to ISPR---.

This shows arrogance on the part of Paf if it was with their permission that Tufail wrote that article---.



Hi,

You may argue---I don't---.

I take a stand---& from that position I discuss issues---.

You need to learn that----.

If learning is deviating from the topic, bringing irrelevant points, comparing corruption with rules of engagement and calling Islamic Teachings as an unexpected argument then BABA G ap apni teachings apne pass rakhen.

And its not called making a stand rather its called being Arrogant.When you think you are above all and know everything better than everyone.

 

[Pied Piper]

This unfortunate saga of individuals serving or retired trying to show how 'clever' they are in reporting tactical and strategic details of a serious conflict (that has not ended between Pakistan's enemies) - is nothing more than sheer 'stupidity' and contradicts the professionalism of these individuals.

If Kaiser Tufail gave this information at least 20 years from now - it would ensure that no vital information has been released out to the public, including Pakistan's enemies.

Please note, many service personnel of all ranks have their personal rivalries (egotistical tendencies) - they may disagree over different issues (some will be envious of others etc.). Gloating on the success of a mission and not having the patience to give vital information - will only aid pakistan's enemies.

The success and 'glory' of the kill should have been kept a secret with the Armed Forces and not broadcasted by any one. I have not seen other countries that have achieved many 'combat kills' giving out the details of their operation (i.e..names, tactics, aircraft roles, Sqn units etc.).

For instance the usa/UK/ Israelis etc...have not immediately 'bragged' about their kills..
It was only many years later that they told the story. I.e..when it was safe to do so - thereby not giving the enemies any crucial information that can hurt their own security. Why has Kaiser Tufail been allowed to do this?

There should be SYNERGY with all of Pakistan Armed Forces (Army, PAF and Navy) - all should speak with one voice, in this case the ISPR. If any personnel contravenes this, then a serious penalty should be given (irrespective of rank and status/respect). There is no 'I' within a team its always 'We'?

Also just a point of view - no pilot can do best without the support of his colleagues. In this case, teamwork by the following resulted in success:

CAP PILOTS
Strike pilots
AWACS crucial guidance
GROUND RADAR team
SEAD type aircraft + personnel 'blinders sqn'
Tankers Sqn
Other combat aircraft who are 'checking' and used as a 'decoy' to confuse the enemies etc.

Plus:

aircraft Engineers
Avionics specialist
Air traffic control
Air Intelligence personnel
Suppliers
Force protection (keeping base and pilots safe)
Cooks (keeping pilot fed so that they have energy to do their work)
Etc....etc...etc..

Meaning that there is no 'I' in a successful mission... But a strong 'WE'.... Together we are strong. For motivational purposes, all should have been congratulated.

I'm hoping that the leadership of Pakistan changes the culture - where no one person or group undermines National Security. ISPR should be reiterating same messages.. Kaiser Tufail and any other egotistical 'hero' need to retract confidential information immediately.

Pakistan has far too many external enemies and should not allow foolish people of all ranks (military or civilian) to undermine and contradict National Security. Otherwise I fear Pakistan will be at the mercy of its enemies.
Look at the 5th Generation warfare played against it (in all walks of life - even in todays cricket match with Pakistan and Afghanistan, a political message by an aircraft flying over the cricket stadium was done on a propaganda basis about human rights issues in Pakistan).

 

[litman]

if ispr would have let paf spokesperson to brief about "their" achievement then it would have been better. paf wont have to use the other ways to give its narrative. ispr mishandled the situation. the rivalry exists between the forces unfortunately.army thinks they are the boss but the truth is paf personnel have better IQ, professionalism as compare to army whether we compare officer lot or the soldier lot. in india although they have a huge failure they had a joint press conference. it was Allah and PAF that saved the honor of pakistan on 27 feb just like in 65. dont want to take the credit away from the soldiers but PAF was the difference between india and pak on both these occasions.

 

[Ahassan]

if ispr would have let paf spokesperson to brief about "their" achievement then it would have been better. paf wont have to use the other ways to give its narrative. ispr mishandled the situation. the rivalry exists between the forces unfortunately.army thinks they are the boss but the truth is paf personnel have better IQ, professionalism as compare to army whether we compare officer lot or the soldier lot. in india although they have a huge failure they had a joint press conference. it was Allah and PAF that saved the honor of pakistan on 27 feb just like in 65. dont want to take the credit away from the soldiers but PAF was the difference between india and pak on both these occasions.

rightly said brother ... but since you know the story of Feb27 .... the PAF did its job ... however you dont know what PA has done in sialkot sector ...

 

[cranwerkhan]

Who stoped you from attaking next day? Next week? Or next mnth? Oh you are waiting for your rahfael? Where are ur mighty MKI? Or they are good for cobra dance.. You sound stupid while saying that u got out numbered!

Actually Russian defence attache Konstantin Zodanin praised IAF for repelling the raid despite being outnumbered 3:1.

 

[airomerix]

another example of PROOF DEKHAO @airomerix

Man. They just wont understand.

CAS is your buddy and he told you that. There you go.

 

[litman]

rightly said brother ... but since you know the story of Feb27 .... the PAF did its job ... however you dont know what PA has done in sialkot sector ...

you are right but as i said it was the PAF that made the difference between india and pak. same was the case in 65. soldiers fought well but the result on ground was 50-50 while in air paf thrashed iaf . dont want to start a paf vs army debate but just want to stress upon the need of choosing the right man for the right job. if lets say navy does an operation let them talk about it.

 

[War Thunder]

Why do we need to gather and publish this data? What exactly is the purpose except to make these people a target for some one somewhere?

 

[loanranger]

AC Kaiser spoke briefly about bvr and mig 21

 

[Pied Piper]

if ispr would have let paf spokesperson to brief about "their" achievement then it would have been better. paf wont have to use the other ways to give its narrative. ispr mishandled the situation. the rivalry exists between the forces unfortunately.army thinks they are the boss but the truth is paf personnel have better IQ, professionalism as compare to army whether we compare officer lot or the soldier lot. in india although they have a huge failure they had a joint press conference. it was Allah and PAF that saved the honor of pakistan on 27 feb just like in 65. dont want to take the credit away from the soldiers but PAF was the difference between india and pak on both these occasions.

Partially agree - please note it is only Allah swt that gives honour or takes it away. Today he may put you in the high chair and tomorrow he may throw you off it.

The PAF mashallah did a fantastic job - but do realise that the Army and Navy have also done fantastic. Guarding its borders and EEC zones requires alot of the vigilance.

The PAF have thwarted the IAF, the Army and Navy its equivalent across the border.
The intence shelling and force posture of the Army made sure it was difficult for the enemy to penetrate.

The Navy with its meagre resources had located and targeted the IN submarine etc....hence all had done a brilliant job.

In respect to the quality of officers - all three services have some brilliant officers (and also some not brilliant ones).

The ISPR... According to its role..
Is the mouth piece of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Hence it was the ideal platform to convey the message.

The Inter-Services Public Relations, is the media wing of the Pakistan Armed Forces which broadcasts and coordinates military news and information to the country's civilian media and the civic society. Wikipedia

The people in charge of National Security need to reign any personnel in regards to the statements it has given. The most dangerous issues for Pakistan is having inter service rivalry and not having the ability to reign any serving or retired officer when the are breaking National Security issues.

The State of Pakistan comes first - no buts on this. Anyone that undermines the state especially via stupidity and foolishness needs to be dealt with harsh.

 

[litman]

Partially agree - please note it is only Allah swt that gives honour or takes it away. Today he may put you in the high chair and tomorrow he may throw you off it.

The PAF mashallah did a fantastic job - but do realise that the Army and Navy have also done fantastic. Guarding its borders and EEC zones requires alot of the vigilance.

The PAF have thwarted the IAF, the Army and Navy its equivalent across the border.
The intence shelling and force posture of the Army made sure it was difficult for the enemy to penetrate.

The Navy with its meagre resources had located and targeted the IN submarine etc....hence all had done a brilliant job.

In respect to the quality of officers - all three services have some brilliant officers (and also some not brilliant ones).

The ISPR... According to its role..
Is the mouth piece of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Hence it was the ideal platform to convey the message.

The Inter-Services Public Relations, is the media wing of the Pakistan Armed Forces which broadcasts and coordinates military news and information to the country's civilian media and the civic society. Wikipedia

The people in charge of National Security need to reign any personnel in regards to the statements it has given. The most dangerous issues for Pakistan is having inter service rivalry and not having the ability to reign any serving or retired officer when the are breaking National Security issues.

The State of Pakistan comes first - no buts on this. Anyone that undermines the state especially via stupidity and foolishness needs to be dealt with harsh.

totally agreed but when you have a specialist available for a particular job then let him do the job and talk about it. he will handle the situation in a much better way. in pakistan we ourselves create inter service and even inter branch rivalry .if india can invite AF spokesperson then why cant we? the air force would have been in better position to deal with question about F-16 involvement in the operation. when ispr said that no f-16s were used and the indians found a piece of amraam from the wreckage of their su 30 the credibility of ispr was lost . the second pilot and the f-16 involvement issue gave indian media a chance to hit pak for a six and they tried their best to exploit them for their own propaganda.

 

[Pied Piper]

totally agreed but when you have a specialist available for a particular job then let him do the job and talk about it. he will handle the situation in a much better way. in pakistan we ourselves create inter service and even inter branch rivalry .if india can invite AF spokesperson then why cant we? the air force would have been in better position to deal with question about F-16 involvement in the operation. when ispr said that no f-16s were used and the indians found a piece of amraam from the wreckage of their su 30 the credibility of ispr was lost . the second pilot and the f-16 involvement issue gave indian media a chance to hit pak for a six and they tried their best to exploit them for their own propaganda.

I still think that ISPR, which represents the Armed Forces has been the best place for conveying information. Maybe the ISPR should have a regular rotation of military officers represented from all three services.

In a nut shell, no specialist is required as the ISPR will be giving controlled information (that they have received from all specialist in all three services). Here the ISPR gave good information based on the intelligence picture available then.

The narrative given by ISPR was professional and in full confidence - yes there were questions but really it had kept the vast majority of 'guessing' of what really happened. This made it harder for the enemies - they would always be in doubt of the real tactics employed by the PAF.

Also in India the IAF chief and others did their public expert statements - and still made an arse of themselves and their botched operations.

In regards to Inter-Services rivalries... These happen in all countries, such as the USA, NATO etc. However, they do manage to limit it due to overall National Security requirements. Hence the STATE has the paramount priority and all need to toe the line.

 

[MastanKhan]

AC Kaiser spoke briefly about bvr and mig 21

Hi,

Listen to the video ---so many of them on this board---@ 00:17 seconds---" Gun Tau Khatam Ho Gai---"---right in the begining---that is what he says---the use of gun is finished ( talking about the gun on the aircraft )---.

Now that your DAD, Kaiser Tufail has spoken---maybe now you would understand what I have been saying for a decade---.

And look at this video of Gripen trying to position for a kill in a gun dogfight---.

You will see how vulnerable he is for a BVR shot from the enemy aircraft from 50 miles away----.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

Listen to the video you fools---so many of them on this board---@ 00:17 seconds---" Gun Tau Khatam Ho Gai---"---right in the begining---that is what he says---the use of gun is finished ( talking about the gun on the aircraft )---.

Now that your DAD, Kaiser Tufail has spoken---maybe now you would understand what I have been saying for a decade---.

And look at this video of Gripen trying to position for a kill in a gun dogfight---.

You will see how vulnerable he is for a BVR shot from the enemy aircraft from 50 miles away----.

He is speaking of the gun in terms of Air to Air combat. Its use in secondary roles have not diminished and thus you will always see guns on aircraft.

 

[MastanKhan]

He is speaking of the gun in terms of Air to Air combat. Its use in secondary roles have not diminished and thus you will always see guns on aircraft.

Hi,

No you won't---. It's role is finished---.

You are incorrect---You guys used to argue with me about its usage for a gunfight---after a decade some of you have agreed that now no more gun fights but maybe from drones and ground targets---maybe after another decade---you would agree---that was also a mistake---. Hey---don't blame you for saying that---but you are just " being pakistanis "---. You do it out of habit---.

If you guys knew that I was in power---I had a billion dollars and 20 different industries in pakistan where you could get jobs of the future---none of you would have argued against me about the gun issue---.

Every single one of you would be running over each other exclaiming " Yes---MK is right---use of gun is over---MK---sir you are a Wali---Allah gave you the Basharat years before everyone else---Allah gave you vision to see before we could---".

You can't shoot drones with it---because they fly very slow---you would use a missile for that---.

If you really want to shoot a drone---you will have to slow down substantially---all your focus would be on targeting the drone and possibly and enemy fighter would be coming your way to launch a BVR from 50-60 miles away---that you would not even know is coming because of target affixiation---.

You won't do the ground strikes any more---again you will have to slow down substantially and there will be a lots of manpads down below---and again you get target affixiation and an enemy aircraft from 50-60 miles will take you out---or even a modern radar guided anti aircraft gun---.