PAF F-16s Beating The Typhoon

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hi,

We are talking about WVR combat here---.

So? Unlike our F-16s, the T3 has the industry's best HMD/S (Striker II) with access to at least 2 5th-gen WVRAAMs. Our F-16s might be able to visually cue, but the AIM-9M won't best the AIM-9X or ASRAAM.

Furthermore... radars are used for WVR engagements - e.g. TWS. The T3's EW/ECM will jam the now legacy AN/APG-68v9 while the T3 (with the Captor-E) can run TWS on us.

Let's not forget the Pirate IRST system too (for added measure). There's no contest re: the T3's situational awareness and ability to obstruct in any BVR or WVR engagement with our F-16s as they are today.

IMO the only thing the F-16s beating the T1 taught us was not to waste money on the T1 back then (the PAF was actually considering it in 2005). That was a good miss since the T1 turned out being a liability and could be had (with some decent negotiators) for cheap today. Sadly, we wasted money on the 18 Block-52+s instead of perhaps saving for the T2/T3 or Rafale F2.

 

[messiach]

Hi @All.
Travelled to Pk and then Hk for consultany services to HAECO. Met industry insiders in Hk.
Presented some papers at our Alumini meeting.

 

[GumNaam]

Hi @All.
Travelled to Pk and then Hk for consultany services to HAECO. Met industry insiders in Hk.
Presented some papers at our Alumini meeting.

So? Unlike our F-16s, the T3 has the industry's best HMD/S (Striker II) with access to at least 2 5th-gen WVRAAMs. Our F-16s might be able to visually cue, but the AIM-9M won't best the AIM-9X or ASRAAM.

Furthermore... radars are used for WVR engagements - e.g. TWS. The T3's EW/ECM will jam the now legacy AN/APG-68v9 while the T3 (with the Captor-E) can run TWS on us.

Let's not forget the Pirate IRST system too (for added measure). There's no contest re: the T3's situational awareness and ability to obstruct in any BVR or WVR engagement with our F-16s as they are today.

IMO the only thing the F-16s beating the T1 taught us was not to waste money on the T1 back then (the PAF was actually considering it in 2005). That was a good miss since the T1 turned out being a liability and could be had (with some decent negotiators) for cheap today. Sadly, we wasted money on the 18 Block-52+s instead of perhaps saving for the T2/T3 or Rafale F2.

It would be worth seeing a class between the PAF JF-17 blk III with AESA radar verses the T3.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi @All.
Travelled to Pk and then Hk for consultany services to HAECO. Met industry insiders in Hk.
Presented some papers at our Alumini meeting.

Ata girl-------. Proud of you---.

So? Unlike our F-16s, the T3 has the industry's best HMD/S (Striker II) with access to at least 2 5th-gen WVRAAMs. Our F-16s might be able to visually cue, but the AIM-9M won't best the AIM-9X or ASRAAM.

Furthermore... radars are used for WVR engagements - e.g. TWS. The T3's EW/ECM will jam the now legacy AN/APG-68v9 while the T3 (with the Captor-E) can run TWS on us.

Let's not forget the Pirate IRST system too (for added measure). There's no contest re: the T3's situational awareness and ability to obstruct in any BVR or WVR engagement with our F-16s as they are today.

IMO the only thing the F-16s beating the T1 taught us was not to waste money on the T1 back then (the PAF was actually considering it in 2005). That was a good miss since the T1 turned out being a liability and could be had (with some decent negotiators) for cheap today. Sadly, we wasted money on the 18 Block-52+s instead of perhaps saving for the T2/T3 or Rafale F2.

Hi,

Thanks for the post---I appreciate it very much---.

The days of BVR combat in modern warfare has disappeared---it is good to know---but it may not be the life saver that it was thought to be---. Thank you.

 

[ghazi768]

So? Unlike our F-16s, the T3 has the industry's best HMD/S (Striker II) with access to at least 2 5th-gen WVRAAMs. Our F-16s might be able to visually cue, but the AIM-9M won't best the AIM-9X or ASRAAM.

Furthermore... radars are used for WVR engagements - e.g. TWS. The T3's EW/ECM will jam the now legacy AN/APG-68v9 while the T3 (with the Captor-E) can run TWS on us.

Let's not forget the Pirate IRST system too (for added measure). There's no contest re: the T3's situational awareness and ability to obstruct in any BVR or WVR engagement with our F-16s as they are today.

IMO the only thing the F-16s beating the T1 taught us was not to waste money on the T1 back then (the PAF was actually considering it in 2005). That was a good miss since the T1 turned out being a liability and could be had (with some decent negotiators) for cheap today. Sadly, we wasted money on the 18 Block-52+s instead of perhaps saving for the T2/T3 or Rafale F2.

How EW/ECM will jam when you are within a mile of each other and most probably not facing each other head-on? and how will Captor-E track or scan in such a case? or AN/APG-68v9 will fail to do so?

what use will be IRST in such a situation?

 

[YeBeWarned]

we cant rely on F-16's alone, no matter how good they are against modern fighters .

 

[GumNaam]

we cant rely on F-16's alone, no matter how good they are against modern fighters .

And we don't.

 

[YeBeWarned]

And we don't.

i hope not ..

 

[GriffinsRule]

So? Unlike our F-16s, the T3 has the industry's best HMD/S (Striker II) with access to at least 2 5th-gen WVRAAMs. Our F-16s might be able to visually cue, but the AIM-9M won't best the AIM-9X or ASRAAM.

Furthermore... radars are used for WVR engagements - e.g. TWS. The T3's EW/ECM will jam the now legacy AN/APG-68v9 while the T3 (with the Captor-E) can run TWS on us.

Let's not forget the Pirate IRST system too (for added measure). There's no contest re: the T3's situational awareness and ability to obstruct in any BVR or WVR engagement with our F-16s as they are today.

IMO the only thing the F-16s beating the T1 taught us was not to waste money on the T1 back then (the PAF was actually considering it in 2005). That was a good miss since the T1 turned out being a liability and could be had (with some decent negotiators) for cheap today. Sadly, we wasted money on the 18 Block-52+s instead of perhaps saving for the T2/T3 or Rafale F2.

Your usual posts are pretty good but I think you missed the mark with this one. There is limited if any jamming to be had of radars ... esp in a WVR scenario where it is more or less a turning fight. Besides, no amount of jamming would impact an IR missile kill anyways.

Also, we don't know if all three engagements employed missiles either ... maybe they were gun kills!! =D

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Your usual posts are pretty good but I think you missed the mark with this one. There is limited if any jamming to be had of radars ... esp in a WVR scenario where it is more or less a turning fight. Besides, no amount of jamming would impact an IR missile kill anyways.

Also, we don't know if all three engagements employed missiles either ... maybe they were gun kills!! =D

The WVRAAM is the final piece of the chain, but before it you require situational awareness of the overall environment, especially as you approach a WVR engagement. You're generally not dropped into a WVR engagement with just having to steer your jet to the enemy and shoot.

Today, the T3 vs the PAF's F-16s specifically can leverage a range of sensors with to find our jets and to engage without as much manouvering - e.g. Striker II w/HOBS AAM. Our Block-IIIs are much more credible (though baseline as far as 4+/4.5+ gen fighters are concerned).

How EW/ECM will jam when you are within a mile of each other and most probably not facing each other head-on? and how will Captor-E track or scan in such a case? or AN/APG-68v9 will fail to do so?

what use will be IRST in such a situation?

The jamming will matter when you're trying to get to that one mile distance and build a situational awareness of your environment before engaging. Practically speaking, the two fighters still need to approach each other from distances of X (>1 mile) to have a WVR engagement in the first place. Without TWS, you risk going into a fight blind of all your threats. And that is before even answering how well *our* non-HOBS AAM F-16s will fare against ASRAAM or AIM-9X armed T3s.

 

[Trango Towers]

when PAF will beat a drone whom bomb Pakistan frequently ?

As I th4 politicians who won't allow it. F6 not f16 can shoot down drones like predator

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Ata girl-------. Proud of you---.



Hi,

Thanks for the post---I appreciate it very much---.

The days of BVR combat in modern warfare has disappeared---it is good to know---but it may not be the life saver that it was thought to be---. Thank you.

It's an age of 'first to see, first to shoot'... Apply it to BVR, WVR or almost anything, the first shot has the best chance to hit you unless it fails, and when it does, it's the very next one to matter. My point is that the T3 is equipped today to do that to our F-16s, i.e birds that lack HOBSAAM.

 

[MastanKhan]

The WVRAAM is the final piece of the chain, but before it you require situational awareness of the overall environment, especially as you approach a WVR engagement. You're generally not dropped into a WVR engagement with just having to steer your jet to the enemy and shoot.

Today, the T3 vs the PAF's F-16s specifically can leverage a range of sensors with to find our jets and to engage without as much manouvering - e.g. Striker II w/HOBS AAM. Our Block-IIIs are much more credible (though baseline as far as 4+/4.5+ gen fighters are concerned).


The jamming will matter when you're trying to get to that one mile distance and build a situational awareness of your environment before engaging. Practically speaking, the two fighters still need to approach each other from distances of X (>1 mile) to have a WVR engagement in the first place. Without TWS, you risk going into a fight blind of all your threats. And that is before even answering how well *our* non-HOBS AAM F-16s will fare against ASRAAM or AIM-9X armed T3s.

Hi,

Thank you for your post again---. I am avid reader of works of fiction about wars and weapons---.

What was assumed by many a work of fiction some 25-30 years ago---I am looking at those things in real time in reality---.

I was a firm believer that the equipment in those works of fictions would be available in one form or the other---and the modern day warfare weapons have seconded my belief---.

In a similar manner---I read about 15-17 years ago that the USAF had taken on a new form of combat traing for its pilots---BVR lock and launch---turn around and scoot---no wvr---. The Usaf had to change the mind and mindset of the pilots to not get into a merge---so importance lay in fighting from your position of strength.

WVR combat is not a position of strength---it evens the odds out at 50/50---so a 100 million dollars machine is vulnerable to a 25 million dollar machine.

So---in a real combat between a Paf f16 and an Italian eurofighter---the solution would be resolved at BVR---the Italian will launch BVR---turn and burn fuel to get out of the arena---.

 

[Imran Khan]

As I th4 politicians who won't allow it. F6 not f16 can shoot down drones like predator

ye goli kisi or ko deen janab GHQ hi mulk ka karta dharta hai . politicians ki izat or velue kitni hai hum janty hain . do not blame poor politicians

 

[Trango Towers]

ye goli kisi or ko deen janab GHQ hi mulk ka karta dharta hai . politicians ki izat or velue kitni hai hum janty hain . do not blame poor politicians

The fact you say poor politicians speaks for itself