PAF F-16 mlu specifications and 36 blk 52+ prospects

[graphican]

Guys,

Need some info which is about 36 F-16s but slightly out of the way. I want to ask is there a cap on this offer that after 36, we wouldn't be sold additional ones even if we want to buy more? So thats the maximum PAF could have and if it wants more, it would have to go for other options but F-16 Block 52. Is it so?

Side question, is there any other US aircraft platform that is available to us as an option?

 

[Nahraf]

After 36 F-16 Block 52 Pakistan should order additional 72 F-16 Block 52 or its upgrade F-16 Block 60. We need to counter Indian MMRCA as soon as possible as FC-20 would need time to integrate.

 

[MAB]

^^^ Pakistan does not have the money to order 72 F-16 blk 52 and with the current floods our funds are basically dried up for the next 5 years or so.

 

[maverick1977]

when will the last of F16A/B will be upgraded to MLU

 

[Donatello]

when will the last of F16A/B will be upgraded to MLU

Around 2014.

 

[Super Falcon]

well after this MLU they will be good at high alltitudes as F 16 always reckon for low flying fights a best fighter jet after MLU can it gain high alltitude fight master status too

 

[Quwa]

Guys,

Need some info which is about 36 F-16s but slightly out of the way. I want to ask is there a cap on this offer that after 36, we wouldn't be sold additional ones even if we want to buy more? So thats the maximum PAF could have and if it wants more, it would have to go for other options but F-16 Block 52. Is it so?

Side question, is there any other US aircraft platform that is available to us as an option?

There are no limits on how many F-16s PAF can buy, but for aircraft beyond the 36 it will have to negotiate another agreement. And if it does want more F-16s, it can choose to acquire more Block-52+, or a more advanced variant - should it be able to afford them.

After 36 F-16 Block 52 Pakistan should order additional 72 F-16 Block 52 or its upgrade F-16 Block 60. We need to counter Indian MMRCA as soon as possible as FC-20 would need time to integrate.

PAF originally planned for 55~75 new-built F-16s, right now it agreed to buy a maximum of 36 from the U.S. IMO if PAF decides to buy additional new-built F-16s, it would go for 1 or 2 additional squadrons (on top of the 36 already agreed upon). On the other hand, the PAF has the option to pick up used F-16s via the Excess Defence Article program. The airframes could be acquired for free or at least very cheaply, and all the PAF would need to do is have them upgraded through MLU (F-16A/B) and CCIP (F-16C/D). The upgrades can bring the used F-16s to Block-52+ standards in terms radar, avionics, ECM/EW, weapon-systems - or even higher when the Raytheon RACR and Northrop SABR AESA radars are on the market.

^^^ Pakistan does not have the money to order 72 F-16 blk 52 and with the current floods our funds are basically dried up for the next 5 years or so.

Perhaps, but we need to wait and see how budgeting is going to be managed. Although the PAF still has the option to get a good number of used F-16s and have them upgraded, a much cheaper option than new-built models.

 

[fatman17]

There are no limits on how many F-16s PAF can buy, but for aircraft beyond the 36 it will have to negotiate another agreement. And if it does want more F-16s, it can choose to acquire more Block-52+, or a more advanced variant - should it be able to afford them.

PAF originally planned for 55~75 new-built F-16s, right now it agreed to buy a maximum of 36 from the U.S. IMO if PAF decides to buy additional new-built F-16s, it would go for 1 or 2 additional squadrons (on top of the 36 already agreed upon). On the other hand, the PAF has the option to pick up used F-16s via the Excess Defence Article program. The airframes could be acquired for free or at least very cheaply, and all the PAF would need to do is have them upgraded through MLU (F-16A/B) and CCIP (F-16C/D). The upgrades can bring the used F-16s to Block-52+ standards in terms radar, avionics, ECM/EW, weapon-systems - or even higher when the Raytheon RACR and Northrop SABR AESA radars are on the market.

Perhaps, but we need to wait and see how budgeting is going to be managed. Although the PAF still has the option to get a good number of used F-16s and have them upgraded, a much cheaper option than new-built models.

if the PAF wants more blk/52s other than the 18+18, then negotiations have to be started fairly soon as the LM assembly line has only three orders on line for Morrocco, Turkey and Egypt, a total of 78-80 aircraft. at a peace-time production pace of 24 a/c per year, that is 3-4 years of work before the assembly line moves over to the F-35.

IMO EDA F-16s would be the ideal platform to get more F-16 blk/25MLUs.

 

[Quwa]

if the PAF wants more blk/52s other than the 18+18, then negotiations have to be started fairly soon as the LM assembly line has only three orders on line for Morrocco, Turkey and Egypt, a total of 78-80 aircraft. at a peace-time production pace of 24 a/c per year, that is 3-4 years of work before the assembly line moves over to the F-35.

IMO EDA F-16s would be the ideal platform to get more F-16 blk/25MLUs.

Agreed about EDA F-16s.

Regarding the LM production line, it might be extended further if Iraq manages to finalize an order.

 

[mjnaushad]

Sorry for Stupid question but i am little confused.....


Who is upgrading our F 16s.....??

American firm or Turkish TAI

And if its American then what contract did we had with TAI?

(I remember some news and got all mixed up. Please clarify.)

 

[fatman17]

Sorry for Stupid question but i am little confused.....


Who is upgrading our F 16s.....??

American firm or Turkish TAI

And if its American then what contract did we had with TAI?

(I remember some news and got all mixed up. Please clarify.)

TAI was given a $75m to upgrade 41 a/c (1 attrition loss) - 4 a/c are being MLUed in the US. - all the MLU equipment was purchased by Pakistan from the US.

 

[Sapper]

TAI was given a $75m to upgrade 41 a/c (1 attrition loss) - 4 a/c are being MLUed in the US. - all the MLU equipment was purchased by Pakistan from the US.

Pakistan probably chose to do it via TAI because they are cheaper, much much cheaper than the Lockheed Martin.

The ones (4 in number) are being done by LM to act as proof of concept and evaluation of PAF's MLU and Falcon Star upgrade Kit.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Nahraf]

Regarding the LM production line, it might be extended further if Iraq manages to finalize an order.

Agreed. Lockheed Martin is not going to close the assembly line at least until F-35 has been delivered. I think new 18+18+36 F-16 Block 52 is better deal for Pakistan for foreseeable future.

PAF has the option to pick up used F-16s via the Excess Defence Article program. The airframes could be acquired for free or at least very cheaply, and all the PAF would need to do is have them upgraded through MLU (F-16A/B) and CCIP (F-16C/D). The upgrades can bring the used F-16s to Block-52+ standards in terms radar, avionics, ECM/EW, weapon-systems - or even higher when the Raytheon RACR and Northrop SABR AESA radars are on the market

That is good option.

 

[Donatello]

There are no limits on how many F-16s PAF can buy, but for aircraft beyond the 36 it will have to negotiate another agreement. And if it does want more F-16s, it can choose to acquire more Block-52+, or a more advanced variant - should it be able to afford them.

PAF originally planned for 55~75 new-built F-16s, right now it agreed to buy a maximum of 36 from the U.S. IMO if PAF decides to buy additional new-built F-16s, it would go for 1 or 2 additional squadrons (on top of the 36 already agreed upon). On the other hand, the PAF has the option to pick up used F-16s via the Excess Defence Article program. The airframes could be acquired for free or at least very cheaply, and all the PAF would need to do is have them upgraded through MLU (F-16A/B) and CCIP (F-16C/D). The upgrades can bring the used F-16s to Block-52+ standards in terms radar, avionics, ECM/EW, weapon-systems - or even higher when the Raytheon RACR and Northrop SABR AESA radars are on the market.

Perhaps, but we need to wait and see how budgeting is going to be managed. Although the PAF still has the option to get a good number of used F-16s and have them upgraded, a much cheaper option than new-built models.

That's a good point because once EDA materializes, PAF can get F-16s from other nations that may not need them or want to phase them out.

I think it would be good if PAF picked up useds ones and ordered the MLUs...they will be nearly as good with, the exception of CFTs of course.

 

[Quwa]

Yes and EDA would also allow PAF to stockpile a good number of inoperable A/B and C/D airframes for spare-parts cannibalization, attrition reserves, etc - for free or very cheap. The second advantage is the fact that F-16 is backed by one of history's largest global maintenance and support networks. Even during the embargoes of the 1990s, it was this network (albeit costly) that allowed PAF to maintain its F-16 fleet so well. Nowadays it is considered a common fighter and finding spare-parts through private contracts wouldn't be a huge problem - even during an embargo.

As for the F-16s, they're an excellent force-multiplier - both high performance and matured, and set to be in wide-scale service for decades to come. Excellent combination (in addition to what I said above about support, EDA, etc) as far as the PAF is concerned. The Block-52+/MLU equipped with their AN/APG-68(V9), AIM-120C5, Link-16, JHMCS & 5th Gen WVRAAM (IRIS-T or AIM-9X) makes it an excellent counter to the IAF's Su-30MKI and formidable adversary for MMRCA. Future upgrades (for all F-16s) will include better ECM/EW and AESA radars, such as Northrop SABR and Raytheon RACR for A/B and C/Ds alike.

Infrastructure for additional fighters is there and PAF can certainly build up a formidable fleet of new and used fighters. If funding is difficult, then building up on EDA airframes with upgrades ($20-25mn per fighter) would be quite the attractive option for PAF.