PAF F-16 mlu specifications and 36 blk 52+ prospects

[pak-yes]

Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001

Major post-2001 defense supplies provided, or soon to be provided, under FMF include:

! eight P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and their refurbishment (valued at $474 million);
! about 5,250 TOW anti-armor missiles ($186 million; 2,007 delivered);
! more than 5,600 military radio sets ($163 million);
! six AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars ($100 million);
! six C-130E transport aircraft and their refurbishment ($76 million);
! five refurbished SH-2I Super Seasprite maritime helicopters granted under EDA ($67 million);
! one ex-Oliver Hazard Perry class missile frigate via EDA ($65 million);
! 20 AH-1F Cobra attack helicopters via EDA ($48 million, 12 refurbished and delivered); and
! 121 refurbished TOW missile launchers ($25 million).

Supplies paid for with a mix of Pakistani national funds and FMF include:
! up to 60 Mid-Life Update kits for F-16A/B combat aircraft (valued at $891 million, with $477 million of this in FMF, Pakistan currently plans to purchase 35 such kits); and
! 115 M-109 self-propelled howitzers ($87 million, with $53 million in FMF).
Notable items paid or to be paid for entirely with Pakistani national funds include:
! 18 new F-16C/D Block 50/52 combat aircraft (valued at $1.43 billion; none delivered to date);
! F-16 armaments including 500 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; 1,450 2,000-pound bombs; 500 JDAM Tail Kits for gravity bombs; and 1,600 Enhanced Paveway laser-guided kits, also for gravity bombs ($629 million);
! 100 Harpoon anti-ship missiles ($298 million);
! 500 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles ($95 million); and
! six Phalanx Close-In Weapons System naval guns ($80 million).

While the Pentagon notified Congress on the possible transfer to Pakistan of three P-3B aircraft as EDA grants that would be modified to carry the E-2C Hawkeye airborne early warning suite in a deal worth up to $855 million, this effort has not progressed beyond the notification stage. Other major EDA grantssince 2001 include 14 F-16A/B combat aircraft and 39 T-37 military trainer jets. Under Coalition
Support Funds (part of the Pentagon budget), Pakistan has received 26 Bell 412 utility helicopters, along with related parts and maintenance, valued at $235 million. Finally, under 1206, Frontier Corps, and Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund authorities, the United States has provided helicopter spare parts, various night vision devices, radios, body armor, helmets, first aid kits, litters, and large quantities of other individual soldier equipment.

Source

If we calculate the per unit price it gives 80 Million dollars and armaments price is separate. when block 60 is 60 mils per unit.So how can Block 52 be of 80Mils.

 

[Mani2020]

If we calculate the per unit price it gives 80 Million dollars and armaments price is separate. when block 60 is 60 mils per unit.So how can Block 52 be of 80Mils.

Because it also includes spare parts and other things for the maintenance of aircraft where as the 60 million for block-16 will be just per unit price without spare parts and other related equipments

 

[peacemaker10]

THAT Will give massive ulcers to Indians.

Yep. massive ulcers and CURED !!

 

[Quwa]

Can you telme how JF17 is so called STATE OF THE ART and or even FRONTLINE fighter ?? or even capable to down 4 4.5 fighter ?

The question was posited on you...but anyways, I can tell you that the technology used on the JF-17 for its avionics, ECM/EW and even radar are more advanced than what is on the current F-16A/Bs. This is simply owing to the nature of commercially available technology, today's market will have better products than say 30+ years ago. Secondly, over the next couple years the JF-17 will be equipped with HMDS, allowing to use 5th generation WVRAAM (such as IRIS-T, A-Darter, ASRAAM, etc). The F-16A/B Block-15 does NOT have this capability, in fact, it doesn't even have a data-link module.

However, that is the reason why PAF is going ahead with the MLU for its F-16A/Bs, which in effect will bring them to the same standard as Block-52+ (same radar, ECM/EW, JHMCS, Link-16, etc) minus the range and payload. I urge you to search some of PakDef's archives where PAF officers have repeatedly stated that JF-17 will be 2nd only to the Block-52+. In fact, the former PAF Chief, ACM Tanvir Ahmad himself said that the avionics, radar, ECM/EW tech on JF-17 is from the same generation (i.e. contemporary) as the systems used on modern 4+ generation fighters. YES there is a difference in quality of those systems owing to the fact that JF-17 is lower-cost, lighter, etc, but it isn't obsolete or old.

That said, Thales-MBDA offered the PAF the MICA and TopOwl-F (their HMD/S geared for export with MICA) for use on JF-17...this is 4/4.5 generation technology that JF-17 may use, so who is to say that JF-17 is not in that league? In fact, even the radar system offered includes SAR (also on Block-52+ radar, AN/APG-68V9) and the standard export ECM/EW by Thales includes DRFM - which our Block-52+ in fact lacks. Plus we cannot ignore the fact that PAF is now actively looking for an AESA radar for JF-17...are you telling me that a fighter with AESA radar, HMD/S, data-link, an ECM/EW suite with DRFM, a 5th generation WVRAAM, modern day BVRAAM, etc, is not as good as a Block-15 approved for use in USAF in the late 1970s? oh and btw...since this is what the French are offering to PAF, then God knows what PAF is working on with China, Italy, Turkey, etc.

So yes, JF-17 is comparable to the Block-52+ and any other 4/4.5 generation fighter...it won't be as good, but it's still a contemporary capable of putting up a solid fight - especially in its optimal format.

 

[razgriz19]

PAF F-16 mlu specifications and 36 blk 52 prospects in the light of our thinktanks -- just a humble way to get all the news together--so exciting

meanbird



blain2


pshamim



fatman


araz

btw we r getting only 32 blk 52 not 36!

 

[Manticore]

btw we r getting only 32 blk 52 not 36!

ive quoted the think tanks ... btw look at the quotes of fatman and araz -- the 12 youve added [instead of 18]might be the extra ones , which were embargoed , or we might order these 12 to take f16 squadrons upto 6

 

[Mani2020]

The question was posited on you...but anyways, I can tell you that the technology used on the JF-17 for its avionics, ECM/EW and even radar are more advanced than what is on the current F-16A/Bs. This is simply owing to the nature of commercially available technology, today's market will have better products than say 30+ years ago. Secondly, over the next couple years the JF-17 will be equipped with HMDS, allowing to use 5th generation WVRAAM (such as IRIS-T, A-Darter, ASRAAM, etc). The F-16A/B Block-15 does NOT have this capability, in fact, it doesn't even have a data-link module.

However, that is the reason why PAF is going ahead with the MLU for its F-16A/Bs, which in effect will bring them to the same standard as Block-52+ (same radar, ECM/EW, JHMCS, Link-16, etc) minus the range and payload. I urge you to search some of PakDef's archives where PAF officers have repeatedly stated that JF-17 will be 2nd only to the Block-52+. In fact, the former PAF Chief, ACM Tanvir Ahmad himself said that the avionics, radar, ECM/EW tech on JF-17 is from the same generation (i.e. contemporary) as the systems used on modern 4+ generation fighters. YES there is a difference in quality of those systems owing to the fact that JF-17 is lower-cost, lighter, etc, but it isn't obsolete or old.

That said, Thales-MBDA offered the PAF the MICA and TopOwl-F (their HMD/S geared for export with MICA) for use on JF-17...this is 4/4.5 generation technology that JF-17 may use, so who is to say that JF-17 is not in that league? In fact, even the radar system offered includes SAR (also on Block-52+ radar, AN/APG-68V9) and the standard export ECM/EW by Thales includes DRFM - which our Block-52+ in fact lacks. Plus we cannot ignore the fact that PAF is now actively looking for an AESA radar for JF-17...are you telling me that a fighter with AESA radar, HMD/S, data-link, an ECM/EW suite with DRFM, a 5th generation WVRAAM, modern day BVRAAM, etc, is not as good as a Block-15 approved for use in USAF in the late 1970s? oh and btw...since this is what the French are offering to PAF, then God knows what PAF is working on with China, Italy, Turkey, etc.

So yes, JF-17 is comparable to the Block-52+ and any other 4/4.5 generation fighter...it won't be as good, but it's still a contemporary capable of putting up a solid fight - especially in its optimal format.

Firstly about your comments regarding PAF officers stating that jf-17 is 2nd to f-16 block 52+, so what sir its not a big deal coz other than f-16 block 52+ what 4++ generation aircraft we have? our inventory is full of 3rd generation aircrafts and most of which are obsolete so jf-17 2nd to block 52+ is obvious

Secondly the french deal , now these are old things coz every one knows this deal is dead so are the HMDS, RADARS ,MICA n stuff you are talking about, And lets suppose if somehow PAF brings back france on talk tables still there will b a lot of ambiguity involved in this deal as there are many factors having direct influence on the deal. so imagining jf-17 with all these french goodies is a distant thing

 

[Quwa]

Firstly about your comments regarding PAF officers stating that jf-17 is 2nd to f-16 block 52+, so what sir its not a big deal coz other than f-16 block 52+ what 4++ generation aircraft we have? our inventory is full of 3rd generation aircrafts and most of which are obsolete so jf-17 2nd to block 52+ is obvious

The statement was in regards to the claim that the F-16A/Bs are superior to the JF-17, which they cannot be since the officers said that the current JF-17 is 2nd only to Block-52+. That said, the then ACM's words are heavier in which he more or less stated that the systems used on JF-17 are of the same generation/level of technology as Gripen or Rafale - except we know the later set have better performing systems within that league. Nonetheless, it is clear that the systems used on JF-17 are not obsolete or outdated.

Secondly the french deal , now these are old things coz every one knows this deal is dead so are the HMDS, RADARS ,MICA n stuff you are talking about, And lets suppose if somehow PAF brings back france on talk tables still there will b a lot of ambiguity involved in this deal as there are many factors having direct influence on the deal. so imagining jf-17 with all these french goodies is a distant thing

In the latest Air Forces Monthly edition (July 2010), Alan Warnes quoted the PAF saying that the French deal is still active. In fact, the PAF said that the French government is supporting the deal, and that the reports quoting "unnamed sources" are false. You can ask fatman to pick up the edition of AFM and confirm my claim:

Reports in late March that the French Government was refusing to allow the sale of a Thales avionics system was denied by the CAS: "I saw the report quoting unnamed sources or any French Government official. I have had discussions with the French Government officials who have assured me that this is not the position of their Government. I think someone is trying to cause mischief - to put pressure on France not to supply us with the avionics we want." (p54 AFM July 2010)

In early April it was reported that the French Government would not supply the Thales avionics to the PAF for the JF-17; however, the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, told AFM in mid-April that the French procurement agency, the Direction Generale l'Armament (DGA), had assured him that the delivery would go ahead. (AFM July 2010 Headlines)

 

[MastanKhan]

The question was posited on you...but anyways, I can tell you that the technology used on the JF-17 for its avionics, ECM/EW and even radar are more advanced than what is on the current F-16A/Bs. This is simply owing to the nature of commercially available technology, today's market will have better products than say 30+ years ago. Secondly, over the next couple years the JF-17 will be equipped with HMDS, allowing to use 5th generation WVRAAM (such as IRIS-T, A-Darter, ASRAAM, etc). The F-16A/B Block-15 does NOT have this capability, in fact, it doesn't even have a data-link module.

However, that is the reason why PAF is going ahead with the MLU for its F-16A/Bs, which in effect will bring them to the same standard as Block-52+ (same radar, ECM/EW, JHMCS, Link-16, etc) minus the range and payload. I urge you to search some of PakDef's archives where PAF officers have repeatedly stated that JF-17 will be 2nd only to the Block-52+. In fact, the former PAF Chief, ACM Tanvir Ahmad himself said that the avionics, radar, ECM/EW tech on JF-17 is from the same generation (i.e. contemporary) as the systems used on modern 4+ generation fighters. YES there is a difference in quality of those systems owing to the fact that JF-17 is lower-cost, lighter, etc, but it isn't obsolete or old.

That said, Thales-MBDA offered the PAF the MICA and TopOwl-F (their HMD/S geared for export with MICA) for use on JF-17...this is 4/4.5 generation technology that JF-17 may use, so who is to say that JF-17 is not in that league? In fact, even the radar system offered includes SAR (also on Block-52+ radar, AN/APG-68V9) and the standard export ECM/EW by Thales includes DRFM - which our Block-52+ in fact lacks. Plus we cannot ignore the fact that PAF is now actively looking for an AESA radar for JF-17...are you telling me that a fighter with AESA radar, HMD/S, data-link, an ECM/EW suite with DRFM, a 5th generation WVRAAM, modern day BVRAAM, etc, is not as good as a Block-15 approved for use in USAF in the late 1970s? oh and btw...since this is what the French are offering to PAF, then God knows what PAF is working on with China, Italy, Turkey, etc.

So yes, JF-17 is comparable to the Block-52+ and any other 4/4.5 generation fighter...it won't be as good, but it's still a contemporary capable of putting up a solid fight - especially in its optimal format.

Hi,

Indeed with that package, the JF 17 is an extremely deadly aircraft---but we have to see it---. For a long time we have been living on promises---.

 

[Super Falcon]

nothing worth we got from the aid all are old

 

[MastanKhan]

nothing worth we got from the aid all are old

Hi,

That is not right my good man---we got some really good stuff----it is just that we had such a big shortage that it will take some time to fill up what is neede.

But truthfully---pak has more than enoguh to absorb with the available resources.

We just need to keep our focus intact---the blk 52 package and the mlu package is a massive force multiplier for paf---.

Remember we are going from one kind to F 16 to 5 levels up in one jump. We do not have enough resources to absorb all that is coming in this short time.

Now if we had gotten over this issue by the end of year 2002 and ordered what we needed---we would be living in a different time zone.

 

[Manticore]

 

[araz]

Tell me...what makes F-16A/B better than JF-17 other than physical range/payload? Can you show us specific stats, not just general statements?

mark
Please let people also be reminded that we were keen to accept gripen which has a similar weight and armament carrying capacitty than our Thunders. So what has changed now?
Araz

 

[TOPGUN]

Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001

Major post-2001 defense supplies provided, or soon to be provided, under FMF include:

! eight P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and their refurbishment (valued at $474 million);
! about 5,250 TOW anti-armor missiles ($186 million; 2,007 delivered);
! more than 5,600 military radio sets ($163 million);
! six AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars ($100 million);
! six C-130E transport aircraft and their refurbishment ($76 million);
! five refurbished SH-2I Super Seasprite maritime helicopters granted under EDA ($67 million);
! one ex-Oliver Hazard Perry class missile frigate via EDA ($65 million);
! 20 AH-1F Cobra attack helicopters via EDA ($48 million, 12 refurbished and delivered); and
! 121 refurbished TOW missile launchers ($25 million).

Supplies paid for with a mix of Pakistani national funds and FMF include:
! up to 60 Mid-Life Update kits for F-16A/B combat aircraft (valued at $891 million, with $477 million of this in FMF, Pakistan currently plans to purchase 35 such kits); and
! 115 M-109 self-propelled howitzers ($87 million, with $53 million in FMF).
Notable items paid or to be paid for entirely with Pakistani national funds include:
! 18 new F-16C/D Block 50/52 combat aircraft (valued at $1.43 billion; none delivered to date);
! F-16 armaments including 500 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; 1,450 2,000-pound bombs; 500 JDAM Tail Kits for gravity bombs; and 1,600 Enhanced Paveway laser-guided kits, also for gravity bombs ($629 million);
! 100 Harpoon anti-ship missiles ($298 million);
! 500 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles ($95 million); and
! six Phalanx Close-In Weapons System naval guns ($80 million).

While the Pentagon notified Congress on the possible transfer to Pakistan of three P-3B aircraft as EDA grants that would be modified to carry the E-2C Hawkeye airborne early warning suite in a deal worth up to $855 million, this effort has not progressed beyond the notification stage. Other major EDA grantssince 2001 include 14 F-16A/B combat aircraft and 39 T-37 military trainer jets. Under Coalition
Support Funds (part of the Pentagon budget), Pakistan has received 26 Bell 412 utility helicopters, along with related parts and maintenance, valued at $235 million. Finally, under 1206, Frontier Corps, and Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund authorities, the United States has provided helicopter spare parts, various night vision devices, radios, body armor, helmets, first aid kits, litters, and large quantities of other individual soldier equipment.

Source

Awsome detail .. but where are these 5 SH-21 Super Seasprite maritime hels ?

 

[Imran Khan]

Awsome detail .. but where are these 5 SH-21 Super Seasprite maritime hels ?

we already reject that junk sir i think you dont read forum last month. sh-21 is made in 1959