PAF Air Chief in Russia discusses joint exercises

[wiseone2]

PAF lost 2 decades of advancement because in 1990s french were ready to sell their most advance version of M2K to Pakistan but PAF reject the offer when deal was on final stage.
but in 2002-4 they wanted same M2K-5 which were offered to them in 1990s but this time French were offering them most advance fighter jet in the world in 4th gen. But PAF was interested in old jets and reject the most advance fighter jet.

in 1990 did PAF have the money ?? Oil prices spiked during Saddam's invasion of Kuwait ? Pakistani expatriates fled Kuwait. Pressler amendment kicked in. Plus India was on the ropes economically.

Hi,

Viper---what can I say---. After 10 years of hitting my head against the minds of the pakistanis---they have just started to realize that their air force---the great Paf HAS fkd them up real bad---in the last 25 - 30 years time period.

Hi,

It is stupidity all over again----. First of all---the Rafale was offered to pakistan and not the M2K's after 9/11.

If the deal for the Rafale would have been done---then there was no reason for France to stop the progress of the JF17 EW suite----.

So---in 2010---the JF17 would have been as potent as the BLK52 F16.

So---with 40 Rafales---and over a 100 JF17's with French weapons and EW suite----who would need the sanction prone F16 BLK52's---.

how much would 40 Rafales cost the PAF ??

 

[MastanKhan]

Italians have usually been better accommodating than the french. Look at Selex forget Dassault.



Some Pakistani COAS needs to swallow up his balls, go to Putin and admit to mistakes being made in the past(Afghanistan/SU-27/MiG29?). The Russians may have long memories, even while drunk, they'll be willing to move on once you start closing deals rather than showing "interests" in Russian products.

There are plenty of terrorist groups from the CARs that have been taken on by Russian Spetsnaz, experience that can be replicated and exchanged.

Swallow up the ego and pride of the past and look towards the future.

Hi,

You are correct 110%---.

how much would 40 Rafales cost the PAF ??

Hi,

In 1990---cash funds were available----. In 2002 cash funds were available---.

Seems like---we have to explain to each and every indian member on the board that once we go shopping for the aircraft---cash funds are available---.

Even for the most recent F16's---cash funds for our share were available---but when the price went to 95 mil per aircraft---the BLK 52 at that price is not worth it----because it did not come with the complete package.

 

[PakEye]

Hi,

Viper---what can I say---. After 10 years of hitting my head against the minds of the pakistanis---they have just started to realize that their air force---the great Paf HAS fkd them up real bad---in the last 25 - 30 years time period.

Hi,

It is stupidity all over again----. First of all---the Rafale was offered to pakistan and not the M2K's after 9/11.

If the deal for the Rafale would have been done---then there was no reason for France to stop the progress of the JF17 EW suite----.

So---in 2010---the JF17 would have been as potent as the BLK52 F16.

So---with 40 Rafales---and over a 100 JF17's with French weapons and EW suite----who would need the sanction prone F16 BLK52's---.

what about KLJ-7v2 which is installed on JF-17 block 2?
can JFT acquire data about targets 200km far through data link from SAAB Erieye or F-16?

 

[The Eagle]

Some Pakistani COAS needs to swallow up his balls, go to Putin and admit to mistakes being made in the past(Afghanistan/SU-27/MiG29?).

Well, I have a different point of view regarding such visit . We can keep in view the Turkey-Russia push & pull while Russian Plane was shot by Turkey then after it was Erdogan visited Russia and things cooled down.

80's stance (Afghanistan) of Pakistan was by State not by an individual or COAS alone though it was Uniformed Zia but still was leading Pakistan and should be the case here as well while going for relations with Russia that NS has to play the role in such case on priority rather than worrying much about the family business and investment. It is the duty of Foreign Office to get into line and come with such planning and ideas to warm the relations and take opportunity for nation's Interest.

What I am saying is, needs a strong diplomatic stance here as @MastanKhan quoted that we have to deal with Russia but from the position of Strength so here comes to diplomatic force to play the role that unfortunately we are badly lacking for the moment that too which is more of concerned with NaMO gifts exchange service and is being portrayed as weak diplomacy.

Nawaz himself is raised in Zia school that opposed Russia and punished Bhutto for getting closer to Russia or independent foreign policy in those times. A bit of complex situation it is but still, things can be sorted out and can be turned in right direction if Leader take the responsibility and lead the nation being Premier or leave everything of such subject like building relations to the Military.

RS visited Russia in 2013 as well as our ACM visited recently now the things are up-to Political Elite to come forward and take the responsibility as such long term relations cannot be built by visits of Military persons alone and diplomatic office needs to play its part or either leave everything to the COAS/ACM or Admirals to deal with. When COAS was visiting different countries, it was the same Political Elite, through a propaganda Machine, saying that COAS is not letting political office to work and reaching everywhere that it has to be NS. A strong diplomacy is must in these times.

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

You are correct 110%---.



Hi,

In 1990---cash funds were available----. In 2002 cash funds were available---.

Seems like---we have to explain to each and every indian member on the board that once we go shopping for the aircraft---cash funds are available---.

Even for the most recent F16's---cash funds for our share were available---but when the price went to 95 mil per aircraft---the BLK 52 at that price is not worth it----because it did not come with the complete package.

in august 1990 the pressler amendment kicked in. oil prices spiked.
where was the cash ?

 

[New World]

in 1990 did PAF have the money ?? Oil prices spiked during Saddam's invasion of Kuwait ? Pakistani expatriates fled Kuwait. Pressler amendment kicked in. Plus India was on the ropes economically.
how much would 40 Rafales cost the PAF ??

cash was available as Pakistan was on drive of Privatization in 1990s during Nawaz shareef Govt.

 

[wiseone2]

cash was available as Pakistan was on drive of Privatization in 1990s during Nawaz shareef Govt.

1990 was a bad time for pakistan. maybe later in the mid-1990s

 

[MastanKhan]

1990 was a bad time for pakistan. maybe later in the mid-1990s

Hi,

Superstar---even thru sanctions---the payments for the sanctioned F16's were being made on time.

When you want to look into purchasing aircraft---the seller wants to know the funds for down payment and letter of credit or the source of funds---. You cannot proceed without those.

A poster like you would know that---or are you trolling out of habit.

 

[war&peace]

Even for the most recent F16's---cash funds for our share were available---but when the price went to 95 mil per aircraft---the BLK 52 at that price is not worth it----because it did not come with the complete package.

Sir,
At 96 million USD not even F-16 Block 70 is of any worth, we should remember the airframe design is from 70s. My analysis is that JF-17 block III with AESA, IRST, HMDs, some stealth paint applied to its leading edges and nose cone, Selex ECM suite and better BVR LRAAMs, it will be far better option for PAF than spending 96 mils per sanction prone three decade old junk. We can spend this money for getting the best goodies for our JF-17s through block-III and later and focusing on 5th A/C and if we can get some Su-35 or EFTs in between, that will be great. And if we are focussing on defence side then we should couple our air force with best available SAMs and in enough number and that's where LY-80 made in Pakistan come into picture and then HQ9. Try to talk with Russians to get S-400 or pay a token money and be part of S-500 development program and keep interjecting as get some batteries within 3-4 years.

 

[New World]

1990 was a bad time for pakistan. maybe later in the mid-1990s

i think you have serious issues in reading.. read again what i write 1990s (s present the whole decade)

 

[wiseone2]

i think you have serious issues in reading.. read again what i write 1990s (s present the whole decade)

i was responding to post # 152 where Mastan Khan stated cash was available in 1990
it was available in Jan 1990. In August 1990 everyone was scrambling for money

Hi,

Superstar---even thru sanctions---the payments for the sanctioned F16's were being made on time.

When you want to look into purchasing aircraft---the seller wants to know the funds for down payment and letter of credit or the source of funds---. You cannot proceed without those.

A poster like you would know that---or are you trolling out of habit.

If funds were available I cannot explain why the PAF did not make the purchase

I can speculate on why Rafale or Mirage-2000 was not purchased.
France can sanction pakistan just as easily as America
They diverted funds to ballistic missile and nuke programs

 

[New World]

i was responding to post # 152 where Mastan Khan stated cash was available in 1990
it was available in Jan 1990. In August 1990 everyone was scrambling for money

than why you reply to me..

 

[wiseone2]

Well, I have a different point of view regarding such visit . We can keep in view the Turkey-Russia push & pull while Russian Plane was shot by Turkey then after it was Erdogan visited Russia and things cooled down.

80's stance (Afghanistan) of Pakistan was by State not by an individual or COAS alone though it was Uniformed Zia but still was leading Pakistan and should be the case here as well while going for relations with Russia that NS has to play the role in such case on priority rather than worrying much about the family business and investment. It is the duty of Foreign Office to get into line and come with such planning and ideas to warm the relations and take opportunity for nation's Interest.

What I am saying is, needs a strong diplomatic stance here as @MastanKhan quoted that we have to deal with Russia but from the position of Strength so here comes to diplomatic force to play the role that unfortunately we are badly lacking for the moment that too which is more of concerned with NaMO gifts exchange service and is being portrayed as weak diplomacy.

Nawaz himself is raised in Zia school that opposed Russia and punished Bhutto for getting closer to Russia or independent foreign policy in those times. A bit of complex situation it is but still, things can be sorted out and can be turned in right direction if Leader take the responsibility and lead the nation being Premier or leave everything of such subject like building relations to the Military.

RS visited Russia in 2013 as well as our ACM visited recently now the things are up-to Political Elite to come forward and take the responsibility as such long term relations cannot be built by visits of Military persons alone and diplomatic office needs to play its part or either leave everything to the COAS/ACM or Admirals to deal with. When COAS was visiting different countries, it was the same Political Elite, through a propaganda Machine, saying that COAS is not letting political office to work and reaching everywhere that it has to be NS. A strong diplomacy is must in these times.

there is a rumor of ISI orchestrated Afghan rebel attack on Central Asia in the 1980s. Central Asia was part of USSR.

Turkey control of Strait of Bosporus makes it easy to patch up with Russia. Pakistan has no such lever. Turkey does not have a large neighbor like India breathing down Russia's neck

 

[Ultima Thule]

what about KLJ-7v2 which is installed on JF-17 block 2?
can JFT acquire data about targets 200km far through data link from SAAB Erieye or F-16?

bro not SAAB Erieye or F-16 but ZDK-3

 

[The Eagle]

there is a rumor

And then Full Stop as Russia is aware that who orchestrated attack and it was CIA. As it is rumored then still....

ISI orchestrated Afghan rebel attack on Central Asia in the 1980s. Central Asia was part of USSR.

It is rumor, isn't it?

Pakistan has no such lever. Turkey does not have a large neighbor like India breathing down Russia's neck

Well we are not seeking leverages but stepping up for relations based upon equality and even if there is to be a leverage needed, only in case of weapon purchase, India has provided us with current development though Pakistan-Russia relations wouldn't be affected due to India's shopping from Russia. We are about building relations among Pakistan and Russia and an email influencing party called China between us, which is not influenced at all by India however, India can try when it comes to high end goodies that too would be viewed through India tilt towards US, weapon purchase from West, LEMOA with US for bases access etc going to work like bonus leverages. Trust me, if India gives such "Breathing down the Russia neck" statement officially to Putin, I bet, at-least arm chair generals wouldn't be seen around for a while.
It is always about business.

Have a good time, there is plenty of time ahead for such development and speculation.