PAC And China,s JXX/J14 Project

[gogbot]

Just one hint for all friends. Last year the J-15 flying shark prototype flew and who noticed? Not many. This is how secret Chinese keep their projects. J-15 is Chinese equivalent of Russian SU-33. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the first flight of J-20 (JXX) as it might fly sooner than we thought.

Don't correlate the Su-33 with the J-XX they are non two totally different leagues.

IF you want to look for hints, Look for features such as Super-cruise or Trust vectoring in upcoming planes.

Or even AESA radars in J-11 or J-10's

New BVR and other advanced missiles.

And lets not forget greater use of WS-10.

If you spot any such features you cant bet they are getting closer.

I heard J-10B was supposed to have TVC

 

[zagahaga]

@Zagahaga

It even embarrassing for me to reply to a novice like you who does not know anything about recent developments in this region. Just google what i have stated and you will find plenty of evidence on what i said. Enough said!
I cant believe i have to post the same link again for you to study

http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm

yes nadil shame on me ... you lied 2 times now ... first you new sended me no link.... and the link you gave me says nothing about j 10b being fc 20 ..... that your seconed lie... but it dose say that 36 j 10 that pakistan ordered are known as fc 20..... you see a fanboy made it up saying fc 20 is going to be j 10b... but fc 20 is a export name for j 10 like for the FC 1 is jf 17... u get the picture sir

 

[gogbot]

yes nadil shame on me ... you lied 2 times now ... first you new sended me no link.... and the link you gave me says nothing about j 10b being fc 20 ..... that your seconed lie... but it dose say that 36 j 10 that pakistan ordered are known as fc 20..... you see a fanboy made it up saying fc 20 is going to be j 10b... but fc 20 is a export name for j 10 like for the FC 1 is jf 17... u get the picture sir

i thought the FC-20 was just called such as it was the Customized version for Pakistan.

 

[Dazzler]

Zagahaga

What ever please you friend. FC-20 is not J-10b. Now smile..

 

[Dazzler]

My knowledge is not just internet forum bound, i share what i hear from them. Its not necessary for agree with me. We all tend to forget things very often.

 

[notorious_eagle]

My knowledge is not just internet forum bound, i share what i hear from them. Its not necessary for agree with me. We all tend to forget things very often.

Sir please dont take these fanboys personally, many of the platforms that we are inducting or evaluating were first exposed online by posters not the media. It was never reported in the media that PAF was acquiring JF17 and FC20, it was revealed by people with inside connections. Heck nobody even knew that PAF had full TOT for BVR Missiles and PGM until it was revealed by posters online and not by the media.

PLAAF and PAF are very secretive organiztions and never reveal their true capabilities and i completely agree with that. IAF on the other hand is a very open organization and they reveal and flaunt their capabilities openly. I personally know many things about PAF that many other people dont know, not even the journalists. How did i find out, Inside Connections but i will never reveal them online. I will say this about China's 5th Generation Project, it is at a very advanced stage and Chinese have poured in billions of dollars in for its development. I dont know the exact numbers but i know that they have outspent the Indians/Russians by a huge margin, so they are not taking this threat easily. Like the Americans they have the luxury of following many projects simultaneously, they are developing not just one radar but many radars and same goes for other things too like engine, avionics, ECM suites. PAF is monitoring this situation very closely but i wont comment whether PAF is involved or not, some things are better kept secret.

 

[Kinshuk]

yes nadil shame on me ... you lied 2 times now ... first you new sended me no link.... and the link you gave me says nothing about j 10b being fc 20 ..... that your seconed lie... but it dose say that 36 j 10 that pakistan ordered are known as fc 20..... you see a fanboy made it up saying fc 20 is going to be j 10b... but fc 20 is a export name for j 10 like for the FC 1 is jf 17... u get the picture sir

Pakistan should get J 10B and I suppose you should mind your tongue before using terms like "lier" for someone. He said he heard from someone, so it is a possibility. you don't have to blast him for no damn reason.

 

[Tiger Awan]

i wont comment whether PAF is involved or not, some things are better kept secret.

Really you kept every thing secret.

 

[zagahaga]

Pakistan should get J 10B and I suppose you should mind your tongue before using terms like "lier" for someone. He said he heard from someone, so it is a possibility. you don't have to blast him for no damn reason.

fool as i will say to you. he first accused me of faulse ... then gave me a link that was in my favouir ????? sorry i should have called him stupied then???? its clere in black and white that fc 20 is j 10 but not my dost j 10b

 

[gogbot]

taimikhan,

I just forgot to add something in my previous post.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/45982-pac-china-s-jxx-j14-project-2.html#post651803

When you said

And as for J-XX, we don't need hundreds of them, having 2-3 Sqds would be sufficient to counter an Indian threat initially when IAF gets the PAK FA.

I have just realized something, any 5th gen fighter China makes is going to cost 100 million or more.

SO do the math on that and

Each squadron will cost you 1.6 billion dollars. For purchasing the aircraft alone.

That's almost half the defense budget for one squadron

I want an honest opinion here, how much of that do you believe that budget can take.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Forgive me if i sound harsh, But i wont to be frank. Don't you feel what your saying is very Naive.




I heard China was just giveing you full ToT one one of their planes, there was a thread open about it a few months back




I dont understand you, What is the J-10 supposed to counter ?
India already had MKI's before then.

I thought you were just modernizing the fleet.

J-10 was supposed to be China's F-16






can you give me any links to prove this, I know there was an Engine issue, But you had no problems with JF-17.




China will once again need new engines and avionics suits for J-XX
Needs to quality and maintainable test them

engine, Radar and Avionics all have to be more advanced. Including missiles. Its going to be challenge and going to take time. They cant just Roll it of the production line and start selling,
They need to go through the IoC, FoC. Fix the production line and quality issues, Before they can think of giving it to anyone else.

Unless they plan to sell Pakistan a plane that is still a work in progress.



Exactly China saw to its needs first and then two years latter after it was confident with the aircraft enough for production to increase it choose to share with a close ally. After which Evaluations and negotiations commenced.



Forgive me here , but China is making the J-xx for its needs not those of Pakistan.

They should be concerned enough that Russian USA and India are flying around in stealth aircraft. To see to their needs first before they sell to others even allies.

Not to mention Taiwan is still hot point for war.



All well and good, China still needs to have a production line capable of meeting that kind of demand before they can sell to foreign needs.

They will first see to their needs. their IOC then FOC, before sale to anyone.



I know china will sell Pakistan J-XX but the question is when.



Of course but first.

China needs to develop, Production version. at least 8 years away at best.(unless you are telling me China is ahead of Russia)

Then it needs to get IoC, so quality production and maintained issues can be ironed out.

After FoC PLAAF needs to induct the plane is greater numbers. Till they feel they can counter their Security threats.

Then China announces to the world. PAF can then evaluate the aircraft. Negotiations will then commence.

After which orders are placed, with delivery commencing a year or two latter.

All this puts the first J-xx in Pakistani hands at best 15 years from now.

You are 101% correct. Whatever makes you and others happy, is acceptable to us.

Hope so, now you can have a better sleep.

 

[Kinshuk]

taimikhan,

I just forgot to add something in my previous post.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/45982-pac-china-s-jxx-j14-project-2.html#post651803

When you said



I have just realized something, any 5th gen fighter China makes is going to cost 100 million or more.

SO do the math on that and

Each squadron will cost you 1.6 billion dollars. For purchasing the aircraft alone.

That's almost half the defense budget for one squadron

I want an honest opinion here, how much of that do you believe that budget can take.

Though not addressed to me, I would like to make a point. It totally depends on how good Pakistan economy performs. I don't see any other way for any country in the world to purchase over 100 M$ per AC without economy performing well.

Though conditions might just go in their favor, Pakistan needs a strong leadership.

 

[Contrarian]

Sorry Malay, but thats BS at its best. Russia starts inducting theirs in 2015-17 so according to you, China won't have a 5th gen plane by 2025-27?

Firstly, you talk about things you know little about. Agreed China is an underdog and has bottlenecks in its aviation industry. Engines is "one big problem" and even official chinese sources have acknowledged and accepted it.

However, to claim they are behind in number of technologies for current gen. is rather vague unless you can provide us with comparison. Apparently, they already have an AESA radar fitted in the J-10 (according to SDF quoting different sources). I know it sounds hardly reliable but then again when did the chinese officially reveal things? So far, most fanboy stuff have come true including J-10, J-10bs, J-XX, etc.

Remember, few months back J-XX was ridiculed to be internet fanboy stuff until their General (Gen. He) actually acknowledges it and says it will "fly soon" and be with PLAAF by 2020. Given Chinese secrecy, it would be a big embarrassment if he was boasting so I do tend to take it seriously.

Lets wait and see. I expect the first prototype to be flying latest by 2012.

They could some up with 'their' 5th generation fighter mate, but it wont be close to market standards like the f-35 or even the pak-fa.

I'll give you a straight example, as per the Chinese the J-10 is their new 4th generation plane right? But the PAF rejected it in its current form, PAF has in mind a LOT of improvements starting with avionics to the J-10. I say PAF in particular because PAF has first world equipment, has seen and practised with the best equipment present in the world, and as such knows what is up to speed and what is not.

This is what i mean, while it may appear to be an equivalent 4th generation plane, it leaves a LOT to be desired.

Same is the case with their 5th generation plane. When they are yet to develop a 4th generation plane engine even with direct russian assistance, when their current 4th generation plane has been designed around blueprints sold by Israel, they have a lot of catching up to do.

While i would completely agree that they are working very hard on these things, to think that they can match Russians on a 5th generation plane in the same time frame is fooling oneself.

 

[gogbot]

You are 101% correct. Whatever makes you and others happy, is acceptable to us.

Hope so, now you can have a better sleep.

Why the sarcasm ?

did i say something wrong.

 

[TaimiKhan]

taimikhan,

I just forgot to add something in my previous post.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/45982-pac-china-s-jxx-j14-project-2.html#post651803

When you said



I have just realized something, any 5th gen fighter China makes is going to cost 100 million or more.

SO do the math on that and

Each squadron will cost you 1.6 billion dollars. For purchasing the aircraft alone.

That's almost half the defense budget for one squadron

I want an honest opinion here, how much of that do you believe that budget can take.

Get me a source which says it will cost 100M US$s, then we will talk.