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PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

what do you people think about where do AlKhalid fall in the list of top tanks

the only short fall i can find out is its less armor, it have a super engine, superb gun and targeting system and good round firing speed and capacity!

it is alos good in both hilly and desert terrain so a good option for PA!

so what do you guys think of this tank!?

it not only the russian T90 here but alos the lights of Abram, lepord and challenger!
 
alkhalid2 might be a better comparison now

i do not think the specs of AlKhalid II are public as yet, neither i know of any in existance!

do anyone have something about the spes of AlKhalid II!!
by the why when it is due for roll out??

i will really appreciate any response to this post!

regards!
 
Arsalan, i may be wrong, but i have a very strong feeling, the new version of Al Khalid II might be the new variant of Chinese tank as shown in the attached pics. Reason being, the chinese sources on their defence related websites are mentioning the turret of this new variant as similar to the MBT-2000 (Al Khalid) turret in design.

If you look at the turret, its very identical to the Al Khalid turret, the chinese did not had the hunter-killer ability on their earlier latest tanks,but Al Khalid had it. So may be now chinese and pakistani latest tanks turrets & turrets capabilities might be same, while the power packages would be different suiting their own environments.
 
Arjun's biggest problem was its size...

The Indians foolishly made such a massive tank which required a massive engine to power it which caused the tank to overheat, and causing frequent breakdowns

Pakistan went for a better approach of building light tanks which can move faster but have enough range to take out Indian Tanks from a distance
 
indians always have their minds in their legs thats why they do the silly mistakes and thats why their arjun,dhuv is struggling to make its mark in market
 
indians always have their minds in their legs thats why they do the silly mistakes and thats why their arjun,dhuv is struggling to make its mark in market

thank you for such nice words......true,pak force is the greatest,man,how can we bloody indians even think of facing the invincible al-khalid!!!......btw,def.pk is changing!!!....
 
thank you for such nice words......true,pak force is the greatest,man,how can we bloody indians even think of facing the invincible al-khalid!!!......btw,def.pk is changing!!!....



Jako,i think Super Falcon didn't said as a scarcest remark. U do have to admit indian defence programs have faced lot of prblems during their development & even after development.
And if indian defence manufacturers & designers had given it a proper thought, they might not had taken decades in manufacturing these systems & still facing problems.
 
Jako,i think Super Falcon didn't said as a scarcest remark. U do have to admit indian defence programs have faced lot of prblems during their development & even after development.
And if indian defence manufacturers & designers had given it a proper thought, they might not had taken decades in manufacturing these systems & still facing problems.

agreed......but the 'mind betn legs' part annoyed me!!!....and most of the arjun's problems has been sorted out effectively.....regards
 
agreed......but the 'mind betn legs' part annoyed me!!!....and most of the arjun's problems has been sorted out effectively.....regards

no dude,,, it was mind in legs and not mind between legs!! there is a hell of a difference! :lol:
anyway let us get over with it and continue with some informative discussion!

regards!
 
Arsalan, i may be wrong, but i have a very strong feeling, the new version of Al Khalid II might be the new variant of Chinese tank as shown in the attached pics. Reason being, the chinese sources on their defence related websites are mentioning the turret of this new variant as similar to the MBT-2000 (Al Khalid) turret in design.

If you look at the turret, its very identical to the Al Khalid turret, the chinese did not had the hunter-killer ability on their earlier latest tanks,but Al Khalid had it. So may be now chinese and pakistani latest tanks turrets & turrets capabilities might be same, while the power packages would be different suiting their own environments.


dont you think the turret was one point that was to be modified/upgraded for the AlKhalid II, i guess they were going for some thing like the turret of Abrams! not a bubble one!
all other things like the rnge, speed, targetting were fine enough with the AlKhalid I but still were to be upgraded and i dont think they will miss out the turret!
what do you think?

regards!
 
dont you think the turret was one point that was to be modified/upgraded for the AlKhalid II, i guess they were going for some thing like the turret of Abrams! not a bubble one!
all other things like the rnge, speed, targetting were fine enough with the AlKhalid I but still were to be upgraded and i dont think they will miss out the turret!
what do you think?

regards!


Well, Pakistani tanks design has been influenced by the chinese, so whatever new modifications chinese do on their tanks, Pakistan will fully or adopt some of those modifications.
Abram kind of turret, i dont think PA will adopt, as they are huge due to additional armor and its a 4 man turret, PA needs stealthier tanks, meaning having low visibility.

If u see the new armor add-on on Al-Khalid & Al-Zarrar tanks, they were first employed by the Chinese on their latest tanks. Some ideas PA is taking from PLA & PLA is taking some of our approaches.

Modifications to the turret could be better FCS, improvement in the Gun Stabilization, Additional Armor plating (pasted the video of the latest chinese tanks Type 98 and the new variant Type 99 both showed), better protection of ammunition, If u look at the chinese tank turret, it has become large enough in length & width, addition of APS , improvements in the speed of turret rotation, auto loading mechanism etc etc etc

A more powerful engine could be added.

And the weight wouldn't be that far as Abrams, Leopard, Challenger 2, all 62 to 67 tons range, the chinese Type-99 latest variant around 54 ton, Al Khalid 1 only 48 ton, just an increase of 6 tons with much more added capabilities & protection.

My opinion which i strongly believe Al-Khalid II would be nearly similar to the chinese latest variant of Type-99 tank.

 
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Usman Ansari takes a look at Pakistan’s indigenous main battle tank.

Due to the threat from its larger neighbour India, Pakistan continues to maintain a large fleet of MBTs (over 2,000), whilst elsewhere in the world their number is falling. The best tank currently in service is the indigenous Al-Khalid produced by Heavy Industries Taxila, (HIT). In terms of induction of new MBTs it is set to be one of the most significant MBTs in the coming decade. It is a development of the NORINCO (China North Industries Corporation), Type 90-II, which first made an appearance in 1990, and was itself a further manifestation of the Chinese requirement to field an MBT superior to the Russian T-72, (also India's main MBT). It featured substantial improvements in mobility, protection, and firepower over previous Chinese MBTs though still has a traditional MBT layout.


The Al-Khalid project is the culmination of a four part upgrade programme for Pakistan's MBT fleet. It entailed:

- Upgrade of the Type-59.

- Assembly and manufacture of the Type-69II.

- Co-production of the Type-85II.

- Production of an indigenous MBT design MBT 2000/Al-Khalid.


The Al-Khalid features a composite armour package over a welded hull. The hull front has lugs for additional armour, ERA plates and a self-entrenching mechanism. Some spare sections of track are also usually attached. A number of Pakistani companies offer detachable attachments such as track-width mine ploughs or 'rollers' (which have had some export success), compatible with the Al-Khalid but the self-entrenching mechanism seems to be the standard fit. The almost horizontal glacis plate is totally covered by large ERA plates. The driver is centrally seated under a one-piece hatch. He has use of three periscopes, the second of which can be fitted with a passive night sight.


The centrally located welded turret is similar to the Type-85 from which the Type-90II/Al-Khalid family is developed. The composite armour over the frontal arc is of modular assembly to enable replacement of damaged sections or simple upgrade to more a modern type as it becomes available. ERA plates are again added to the roof, front and sides to improve the armour and ballistic protection of the turret. The commander and gunner are seated on the right and left respectively. The commander has use of a 12.7mm with 500 rounds for AA use. There are six electrically fired grenade launchers for smoke and HE rounds, either side of the turret and a large stowage basket towards the rear, which usually houses the snorkel. A meteorological sensor is also fitted towards the rear of the turret roof to warn the crew if the tank is being 'lased' by an enemy.


The main gun is a 125mm smoothbore fitted with a thermal sleeve and fume extractor mid way down the barrel. It is reported to have a life of 500 rounds and has an attachment at the base to facilitate a quick field change. It is fed by a Russian type carousel auto-loader that holds 22 separate loading rounds ready for use. The rate of fire is up to eight rounds per minute. A total of 39 HEAT, APFSDS-T, and HE-FRAG rounds are carried in a mission dependent ratio. The APFSDS-T will penetrate 460mm of RHA at 2,000m, which is unsatisfactory. A POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factories) developed DU round called 'Naiza' is thought to also be in service with the T-80UD/T-84 MBT fleet, but whether this has been adopted for use with the Al-Khalid has not been made public. A coaxial 7.62mm with 3,000 rounds is also mounted. Though Pakistan has purchased the AT-11 'Sniper' ATGM from Belarus for use with the PA T-80UD/T-84s it is not know if it can be fired from the Al-Khalid.


125mm ammunition characteristics.

Ammunition Type.


Muzzle Velocity.

APFSDS


1760 m/s

HEAT


850 m/s

HE-FRAG


950 m/s



For targeting the commander has use of a bi-axis stabilised panoramic sight whilst the gunner's bi-axis sight is roof mounted. Pakistan has recently imported 200 more modern Italian thermal imaging devices for the gunner, details of which are unavailable. The FCS is image stabilised and incorporates a laser range finder with the gunner's sight, crosswind, tilt and velocity sensor plus ballistic computer. Able to track targets whilst engaging others it also incorporates a Pakistani produced data-link to share information with other tanks in the formation. The commander can override commands to the main armament.


The engine, transmission and cooling system can be removed in thirty minutes for a quick field change. Though the British Perkins CV12-1200 (as fitted to the British Challenger series) was evaluated it failed to cope with the harsh conditions of the Pakistani desert. The engine eventually chosen was the Ukrainian 6TD-2 six-cylinder 1,200hp multi-fuel diesel as it was more compact and robust and is coupled to the French SESM-500 automatic transmission. The six dual wheels have rubber tyres and torsion bar suspension with the drive sprocket at the rear and the idler at the front. The track return rollers are usually covered by the side skirt, (the forward section of which can be covered with ERA plates). The rubber track pads are replaceable.


A full NBC system, crew bay and engine bay explosion/fire detection and suppression system, and infrared reflective paint are fitted as standard. It can lay its own smokescreen by injecting diesel into the exhaust at the rear.


A number of prototypes were made for evaluation and fall into four categories:


- Prototype 1: Chinese 125mm and auto-loader coupled to a Chinese FCS. The engine was a German MTU-396 diesel coupled to the LSG-3000 automatic transmission.


- Prototype 2: The same Chinese 125mm and auto-loader as 'P1' but coupled to a Western FCS. The engine was the Perkins 1200hp Condor diesel coupled to the French SESM-500 automatic transmission.


- Prototype 3: As 'P2' above but with a Ukrainian 6TDF diesel engine. This was type accepted into Pakistani service.


- Prototype 4: Designed primarily for export it has a NATO standard 120mm and Western FCS. It is powered by the German MTU-871/TCM AVDS-1790 diesel engine coupled to the LSG-3000 transmission.


Much emphasis is placed on agility and manoeuvrability. With a top speed of 70km/h and power to weight ration of 26.66hp/tonne it certainly fulfils that criteria. It also shares component commonality with the other MBTs in the PA arsenal (10 percent Type-59, 15 percent Type-69, and 20 percent Type-85), therefore helping to reduce running costs. Compared to the latest Western MBTs the Al-Khalid may lack their level of armour protection but is by no means under-armoured or unsuited for the modern battlefield. It's speed; agility and systems help ensure its survivability whilst its armament is powerful enough to deal with all potential opponents.


With 300 ordered for the PA production is currently running at fifty units per year but could easily be increased. The Al-Khalid has been heavily promoted in Pakistani defence shows such as IDEAS 2002, FUTURZ 2003 and IDEAS 2004 during the last few years which has seen the Al-Khalid and its stable mate the Al-Zarrar (an upgrade of the Type-59), receive much interest from potential customers. There has been considerable Saudi interest in the Al-Khalid during defence shows in Pakistan. The Saudis are looking to induct in the region of 100 new MBTs to replace their French AMX-30 tanks. Trials are to be carried out in Saudi Arabia in summer 2005 leaving HIT hopeful of it first MBT export order amid heavy lobbying in its favour. However, Ukrainian reluctance to supply the 6TDF diesel engine has meant the adoption of a German engine that does not generate the same high power/weight ratio as the Ukrainian one. For compatibility purposes the Saudis are likely to require a NATO standard 120mm main gun which can be supplied by POF. As it is in direct competition with other cheap export favourites such as the T-72 and T-80 series the unit price has to be competitive. Malaysia has already chosen the Polish PT-91 (a development of the T-72), rather than opt for the Al-Khalid.


Development is ongoing of the Al-Khalid II, (though the project name is actually 'Al-Khalid I'), which is targeted for production by 2008. It is unknown if there is to be any major change in the appearance of the tank. Key areas for improvement are said to be in the areas of armour protection by inclusion of more modern types of armour, and improved systems. This includes more efficient transmission system and modern night vision systems. A new electronic counter-measures fit is currently undergoing testing at HIT. Recently the possibility has arisen of using Ukraine's 6TD3 engine which generates 1500 hp though it remains to be seen if this shall be incorporated. Firepower is also to be upgraded if ongoing discussions for the Ukrainian 'Kombat' ATGM are successful. With a range of up to 5,000m it would give the Al-Khalid a useful reach against targets such as helicopters. Furthermore, an up-graded auto loader would enable the use of 'long-rod' ammunition as used by Western MBTs, as the Russian style unit cannot currently support them.


More details of developments are likely to be available during IDEAS-2006, as the bi-annual defence show is Pakistan's opportunity to be centre stage at a defence show.


With the Al-Khalid it finally looks like Pakistan has a tank capable of meeting both domestic and foreign needs enabling Pakistan to aim for a bigger slice of the lucrative global arms market.

An edited version of the above article appeared in the September 2005 issue of Classic Military Vehicle.



The Al-Khalid
 

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