PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[SQ8]

I have most of the photos in the video got a few more.. thanks for that.
All the Russian and Chinese MBT have small crew compartment same with Al Khalid the turret has been made bigger to accommodate latest electronic devices and cooling equipment.

A tank is not such a complex a thing that you can't understand it without diploma(and etc.)
I don't know much about armor and its composition... however most of the MBTs follow a general limit of upto what extent you can put armor in size with the turret.

If you were inside Al Khalid you would've noticed the Armor starts right beyond the Gunners sight,
from there you can make an estimated measure.... the blocks are of steel with composite fillings inside them.
Generally if the composite is 400-500mm thick(depending on quality) RHA equivalent would be about 600-650mm for KE round and 800-900mm for HEAT... which is very good... none of the KE rounds of IA can penetrate such armor from 2km... even the best ones used on T-90S.

However the ERA seen here is of concern... it is good if you are facing the HEAT rounds fired by T-72.. However for a tandem charge or KE round.. it's insufficient.

And as seen in the video most of the configuration(including the one which PA follows doesn't cover the lower part of turret where the hits are generally made on ERA equipped tank

Yes, but you need expertise on it to make a sure shot statement.. and this tank is a little complicated(electronically anyway).
I cant say for certain I noticed armour.. I can say for certain that it was CRAMPED. I hurt myself going in and coming out of it.
Again, I have little interest in Tanks as such.. so Im just being a judge of statements.
I was told by the information provided to me that this tank can take KE and APFDFS rounds.. of what nature.. velocity etc.. I never bothered to ask or felt interested in.
I do know what ERA is, and was told that it covers the tank..which was sufficient for my "tourist" status at the factory.

Now Im not sure where most of the hits are made, but it is slightly hard to believe that this relatively small area is always scored a hit upon from anything greater than 800 meters using projectile physics
Just doesnt seem possible that you are suggesting a 90% hit on that area all the time and everybody else with years in armour in the PA ignored it.. not belittling you.. rather Im stumped that they missed it.

 

[DARKY]

Now Im not sure where most of the hits are made, but it is slightly hard to believe that this relatively small area is always scored a hit upon from anything greater than 800 meters using projectile physics
Just doesnt seem possible that you are suggesting a 90% hit on that area all the time and everybody else with years in armour in the PA ignored it.. not belittling you.. rather Im stumped that they missed it.

Most of the hits are made on the weak section.. yes modern guns and FCS are capable enough to hit with a lot of accuracy... which is better with western type MBTs when stationary(better gun and fcs) or level terrain.... while in rough terrain Soviet tanks perform better(thanks to auto loader).

Weak areas.. where they generally hit.

The lower part of Al Khalid turret is not covered by ERA... your army uses a kind of desi method to save that area.... in exercises and war game simulations... there was photo also from a recent exercise.

 

[Arsalan]

I gave an estimated account of the armor thickness in my previous post.
700mm is about the thickness of frontal armor on M1A1/Leo2A4.. and I don't think the turret of Al Khalid is as big.. and heavy.

Al Khalid turret is about half the size and weight.

Assumptions??

no fact or link to back up what you are saying?

No Offense bro but looking at the confidence you are posting these claims with, i was just a bit curious that you might come up with HIT official web link to confirm what you claim. I am a bit disappointed!


As for basing your ASSUMPTION that since AK weighs less then Abram so its Armour thickness is less, have you bothered looking at SIZE of tank? Weight of component? Crew compartment in Abram, its features/dimension/protection and that of AK's?

i just want to know that what you were saying was a Wild guess or a calculated one, i i know for sure that it was you GUESS and nothing more!

 

[DARKY]

Assumptions??

no fact or link to back up what you are saying?

No Offense bro but looking at the confidence you are posting these claims with, i was just a bit curious that you might come up with HIT official web link to confirm what you claim. I am a bit disappointed!


As for basing your ASSUMPTION that since AK weighs less then Abram so its Armour thickness is less, have you bothered looking at SIZE of tank? Weight of component? Crew compartment in Abram, its features/dimension/protection and that of AK's?

i just want to know that what you were saying was a Wild guess or a calculated one, i i know for sure that it was you GUESS and nothing more!

M1A1 has a 7 wheeled chassis hence there is extra space for the 4th crew.

Its turret weights about 24-26tons.
Has armor on all sides.

The armor on both Al Khalid and M1A1 starts beyond the gunners's periscopic sight.
To make a basic idea about the thickness of Armor here.

M1A1 in Afghanistan

Al Khalid at a Public demonstration.

No offense here but none of the Chinese designs have armor as thick as western design.
The weight of Al Khalid turret would come about 15-17ton.
It has less space due to 6 wheeled chassis and additional auto-loader(which also degrades protection.).

Would like to know where the ammo. is stored in Al Khalid.

 

[Dazzler]

Would like to know where the ammo. is stored in Al Khalid.

It has separate armoured ammunition storage panels where ammunition is stored unlike Soviet/ Russian MBTs especially t-72/90 & 80, where ammunition is spread all over the place. Again, all you have to do is to read this thread again to find queries of your questions.

 

[DARKY]

It has separate armoured ammunition storage panels where ammunition is stored unlike Soviet/ Russian MBTs especially t-72/90 & 80, where ammunition is spread all over the place. Again, all you have to do is to read this thread again to find queries of your questions.

I asked where are the ammo rounds stored.

And not weather there are any armored panel or not... I would come on that part also... But before that would like to know the position of extra ammo rounds in Al Khalid.

Soviet/Russian MBTs... all T-72B,BM/90A,MS/80BV,U,UM are much well protected as compared with Al Khalid... it would divert the topic hence lets stick to the ammo storage area on Al Khalid.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I asked where are the ammo rounds stored.

And not weather there are any armored panel or not... I would come on that part also... But before that would like to know the position of extra ammo rounds in Al Khalid.

Soviet/Russian MBTs... all T-72B,BM/90A,MS/80BV,U,UM are much well protected as compared with Al Khalid... it would divert the topic hence lets stick to the ammo storage area on Al Khalid.

Such kind of statements shows the intention and also tells us that its useless to argue since one side has already made up its mind about the thing which is being discussed.

 

[Arsalan]

No offense here but none of the Chinese designs have armor as thick as western design.
The weight of Al Khalid turret would come about 15-17ton.
It has less space due to 6 wheeled chassis and additional auto-loader(which also degrades protection.).

Would like to know where the ammo. is stored in Al Khalid.

AGAIN BOSS..
i repeat what i said earlier..

Assumptions??

no fact or link to back up what you are saying?

No Offense bro but looking at the confidence you are posting these claims with, i was just a bit curious that you might come up with HIT official web link to confirm what you claim. I am a bit disappointed!

i just want to know that what you are saying was a Wild guess or a calculated one, I know for sure that it was you GUESS and nothing more!

I asked where are the ammo rounds stored.

And not weather there are any armored panel or not... I would come on that part also... But before that would like to know the position of extra ammo rounds in Al Khalid.

Soviet/Russian MBTs... all T-72B,BM/90A,MS/80BV,U,UM are much well protected as compared with Al Khalid... it would divert the topic hence lets stick to the ammo storage area on Al Khalid.

Bro, you have been here on PDF for quite some time. I thought you would have learnt all the tricks but you are still giving it away, over and over again!!!

In same post, on one hand you are asking a basic question about AK, confirming your knowledge about the system, on other hand, in same post, we have your twisted claim and conclusion to the discussion. “AK IS NOT GOOD”
Boss, when you are giving what you have made up in your mind at same time when inviting others for a discussion, this makes no sense yaar!

At least you must have waited for someone to answer your question so after that you can say "BAD AK" as a conclusion, based on information provided by that member.
Here in this case, you are making this clear that you are here for arguing for the sake or arguing and nothing more!!

 

[DARKY]

Such kind of statements shows the intention and also tells us that its useless to argue since one side has already made up its mind about the thing which is being discussed.

I can prove what I said with solid facts data any proper analysis.
It remains for the other party to decide weather or not they are ready to face the facts straight once for all.
I would be happy If you point out mistakes there in my analysis.
However I would only start(off course on the separate thread if you people insist.).. as for now I am only posting about Al Khalid.

 

[DARKY]

AGAIN BOSS..
i repeat what i said earlier..

Assumptions??

no fact or link to back up what you are saying?

No Offense bro but looking at the confidence you are posting these claims with, i was just a bit curious that you might come up with HIT official web link to confirm what you claim. I am a bit disappointed!

i just want to know that what you are saying was a Wild guess or a calculated one, I know for sure that it was you GUESS and nothing more!

There isn't any link either.. my assumption was based on comparative mass value in between M1A1 and T-90S turrets... M1A1 turret weights 22-25ton(depending on variant)... while T-90S turret weights about 15ton exactly.. hence a 17 ton figure must be close enough as Al Khalid doesn't have much armor space is needed to fill in electronics.

If you have any link which provides the mass of the turret on Al Khalid then please provide one.

Bro, you have been here on PDF for quite some time. I thought you would have learnt all the tricks but you are still giving it away, over and over again!!!

In same post, on one hand you are asking a basic question about AK, confirming your knowledge about the system, on other hand, in same post, we have your twisted claim and conclusion to the discussion. “AK IS NOT GOOD”
Boss, when you are giving what you have made up in your mind at same time when inviting others for a discussion, this makes no sense yaar!

At least you must have waited for someone to answer your question so after that you can say "BAD AK" as a conclusion, based on information provided by that member.
Here in this case, you are making this clear that you are here for arguing for the sake or arguing and nothing more!!

Al Khalid is good no doubt... I say that here and again.

What I said about Soviet MBTs is what I can prove(In terms of protection)... Its not like making up the mind.. but what you know.
You might take it like its being used by PA as MBTs.. however I can prove that for Arjun too.. in spite of all that thick armor right on the front it is not as protected as Russian MBTs... and that's a solid fact.. no denying.

Russian/Soviet/Ukrainian MBTs are known for their excellent design... after Russian design only Isreali design on Merkava comes 2nd.

 

[TaimiKhan]

@Darky, with respect to protection of Russian tanks, no matter what article or analysis or youtube video you bring out, the war record of Russian tanks speaks contrary to what you just said. In whatever war, Russian tanks have been blown up with ease.

 

[DARKY]

@Darky, with respect to protection of Russian tanks, no matter what article or analysis or youtube video you bring out, the war record of Russian tanks speaks contrary to what you just said. In whatever war, Russian tanks have been blown up with ease.

Sir G,

I don't want to go in details... I would give you an example of 2 Chechnya wars....

In the 1st war T-90 and T-72 both suffered heavily and destroyed in good numbers... thanks to Russian weapons like RPG-7,29,32... while in town any tank is vulnerable and from top and gaps.. even RPG-7 can be lethal... penetrations were made and tanks got destroyed thanks to the open ammo-present... If you know about GWI even M1A1 perished similar way... turret one place and hull another.

In the 2nd Chechnya war they don't carry extra ammo.. and only ammo in auto-loader was present.. again penetration were made on weak points by RPG(as would they do on any other MBT) as many as 9 hits.. the tank survives has repairs and again goes in to battle.

Don't Bring monkey T-72 and T-62 models into equation.

Please read about T-95, Black Eagle, Object 187, Object 195, etc.. etc.. those are superior Russian designs which never came into production.

 

[Dazzler]

Darky,


stop elaborate trolling once and for all, you have already ruined a fine information pool thread. Go ask your questions in relevant thread. Mods please take note!

 

[Last Hope]

Posted by Nabil.

Special emphasis was given to protect the tank from simultaneous RPG hits from various angles. The armor, initially developed with foreign assistance, was later modified and developed indigenously which can sustain many RPG hits. This was validated during 2001, 2004, 2006 trials. AK Armor is considered better than that if the t-80ud (K-5) ERA. Reason is the availability of various technologies from China, France, Korea, Ukraine etc. Current armor as fitted on AK-1 is atleast twice as more efficient as previous version also validated during trials and lighter too

I don't think this is safe to be posted on a public forum. Even though this is nothing sensitive, the TTP and their supporters have access to internet and Al-Khalid is operational in the area.

I hope you understand.

 

[Manticore]

please continue comparative discussions here -- ive cleaned the info pool -- dont get confused by the title of the moved posts , this is the PA tanks comparison thread -- you can quote the info pool here if you need to

regards