Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[Tshering22]

Aside from infrastructure, the key problem with European aircrafts is that they are in limited operation. For example to date, the only operators of rafale are French Air and Naval Force. This situation is a bit tricky in a way that french are not only known for selling expensive but being among the few customers means that effectively you have to fund the development of the program. French can always call upon Indians to say, "hey, we have so and so products to offer you for an upgrade but Indians will effectively be funding development costs, making program more expensive through its life cycle.

Hardly. Typhoon if indeed sustainable, should have stabilized by now with more than 6 countries having it in their arsenal. Even now with 2 tranches already complete and despite high orders from member countries, the unit cost for both the aircraft and its operations are still impossibly high. It is a superb fighter no doubt, but it has some key points that won't suit the IAF much.

Rafale OTOH being in limited operations means we being the launch international customers, have some benefits and say (Especially with such a massive order). Dassault has had a historical presence in India and this definitely has a lot of strategic decision behind it than simply technical.

French jets are expensive but they come with that much political independence. I'd say it is money well spent.

 

[SBD-3]

Hardly. Typhoon if indeed sustainable, should have stabilized by now with more than 6 countries having it in their arsenal. Even now with 2 tranches already complete and despite high orders from member countries, the unit cost for both the aircraft and its operations are still impossibly high. It is a superb fighter no doubt, but it has some key points that won't suit the IAF much.

Rafale OTOH being in limited operations means we being the launch international customers, have some benefits and say (Especially with such a massive order). Dassault has had a historical presence in India and this definitely has a lot of strategic decision behind it than simply technical.

French jets are expensive but they come with that much political independence. I'd say it is money well spent.

Then again my question of tendered price comes in....the argument should have been reflected over there

 

[unicorn]

Before go for any plan PAKISTAN ARMED FORCES Heads first learn how to RUN THE ORGANIZATION and HOW TO MAKE THE POLICY this Military put his ownd hand in this WOT... without using BRAIN! frankly speaking today after 10 years lost 80B $$$$ in which you can buy 100 EF and RAfale....

this Military is totally USELESS Frankly speaking.... ZERO % performance of this armed forces from last 10 years... **** the training training n damn training excuses...

i said this 3 years back..... India will go for ANY FIGHTER and at that time PAKISTAN MILITARY Just "ham ye kardengay ham woh kardeengay khali batain *****gay bas" kareengay kuch nahi...

We don't know how much our Army is corrupt how these generals bridgadiers Wing Commanders Naval heads owned milion billion of prices homes house and 20 30 mercedes n BMWz in their house from where they get money... infact after 4 5 years on PDF i just learned only 1 thing... After 1990... the reaction.. policy... and play style of Pakistan Forces .... WE DONT NEED ENEMY frankly speaking we have most worst enemy in our own house who RULE the state who allow corrupt generals and after wheneverwant to save their ***** call corrupt politicians...

MARK MY WORD

THIS JF17 cheap and old techie 3.5 gen plane OUR AIRFORCES WILL USE TILL 2050! @ that time ... India and all our enemies owned 8 9 10th gen fighters!

and even 2050s like Today PAKISTANI FAN BOYZ remain .. "WE HAVE BETTER PILOTS"

What people don't understand here is that JF-17 is not extra thing added to PAF. It is an up gradation of an old fighters.

In reality Pakistan forces are seriously loosing the race against Indian rapid Expansion of military. The difference between us and India now is not about military anymore. It is never the incompetence of the Pakistan forces.It is simply all about Economy. We need to work on our economy big time if we want to survive.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Congrats India for these birds. Pak should wait 3 or 4 years . Multiple projects can create problem. Just concentrate on JF17 and future blocks. No need to go for J10(Start saving money for some J2x and there is high Possibility Our Economy will back on track as it was in 2005). Just wait for 3 or 4 years. Then go straight with J2x PROGRAM B/W 2016- 2018.
Straight solution is Be Peaceful with India in these 4 years( Even if India shows Aggression in these years).,
Remain Cool as Misbah.

 

[Donatello]

Thailand-Hungry-S.Africa can operate Gripens while PAF has excuses. PAF has set its directions F-16s/JF-17s and if money is available FC-20s. But it is time PAF look for AESA option for the F-16 Fleet atleast. And FC-20 if ever lands in should come by default with AESA.

PAF never openly rejects unlike hindustan. PAF backed down due to higher price tag and technology it couldn't cope with, I would still say the current direction is all PAF is heading into no other platform until next 10 Years.

Has anyone calculated the cost of 18 F-16s at $3.1B including all weapons systems and setup etc i would recommend others to calculate the life time cost of these 18 F-16s these are not cheap thus to F-16 procurement for PAF is equally costly. IF PAF can windup all troubles with US are order to level the figure of 100 F-16s with AESA it would be cost effective solution from the point of view of F-16s.

At the end of day thankyou ppp/pml-n-q you fkup economy you suffer.

You miss quoted there, ppp/pml-n-q-f fk up economy, but they DON'T suffer......we do.

 

[Windjammer]

Of course .. they were rejected on the basis of 643 evaluation parameters set by IAF..

And that is very interesting to know what are the operational parameters were not meted by this jets .. i guess one of them is their high tech and second one is their affordability.

You can be sure as hell, one of the parameter by the IAF was no confidence in single engine jets, hence you never see the likes of MiG-21s/27s, Mirage-2000 or even the Tejas for republic day fly past.

And jf-17 meeting the PAF parameters there is something called compromise ... get yourself well rehearsed with that word

Is that why you are still perusing the several decades old LCA dream, alas, poor innovations can not be nurtured.

 

[aakash_2410]

What people don't understand here is that JF-17 is not extra thing added to PAF. It is an up gradation of an old fighters.

In reality Pakistan forces are seriously loosing the race against Indian rapid Expansion of military. The difference between us and India now is not about military anymore. It is never the incompetence of the Pakistan forces.It is simply all about Economy. We need to work on our economy big time if we want to survive.

Survive? As if we are gonna eat you people?

But I do agree with you. The economy development is the key. Just look at North/South Korea. North concentrated on military might and made a powerful army and South concentrated on economy so they have a strong economy AND highly modernized and more powerful military.

 

[KRAIT]

You can be sure as hell, one of the parameter by the IAF was no confidence in single engine jets, hence you never see the likes of MiG-21s/27s, Mirage-2000 or even the Tejas for republic day fly past. Is that why you are still perusing the several decades old LCA dream, alas, poor innovations can not be nurtured.

Come on yaar, you are a senior member and again you are dragging old LCA, poor innovations etc. LCA dream is at fruition. Kindly read more about it.

Cheers

 

[K-Xeroid]

Congrats India for these birds. Pak should wait 3 or 4 years . Multiple projects can create problem. Just concentrate on JF17 and future blocks. No need to go for J10(Start saving money for some J2x and there is high Possibility Our Economy will back on track as it was in 2005). Just wait for 3 or 4 years. Then go straight with J2x PROGRAM B/W 2016- 2018.
Straight solution is Be Peaceful with India in these 4 years( Even if India shows Aggression in these years).,
Remain Cool as Misbah.

The bold part and optimistic approach, I like that .. Well! Even skills need Better equipments against better technology.. But As far I've Met with personalities related Think tank of P.A.F .. I believe in their planning approach,They will find the way while considering our limited economy. as far as economy is concerned its on civilians to think about their future and support telented personalities for top position instead of depending on emotions. We have to keep focus on Jf-17 blk 2 & 3..
about LCA ,it don't deserve to be considered in making our air defense policey.. Better to focus on real war machines.

 

[KRAIT]

Man-machine interface have become prominent more than ever. So even if aircraft is highly advanced, the pilot has to be at par to handle it and use the aircraft's capability efficiently. PAF should focus on major upgradation in existing and future aircrafts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Please read the thread title and post accordingly.

This is not a thread ON THE RAFALE (so no videos or images glorifying the Rafale - leave that for the ID threads).

 

[gubbi]

On topic: an excellent choice for IAF. I was always of the opinion that either F-18SH or the Rafale would win. Sorry EFT fanbois , IAF requirements didnt require that fine aircraft.

Basically as was previously mentioned, IAF needed a deep strike aircraft to replace the aging MiG27s and Jaguars. What other choices are there except for F-18SH and Rafale as excellent strike platforms? IAF has Su-30MKIs and MiG-29s for air-superiority role. IAF will be buying the PAK-Fa and FGFA for future air-dominance requirements. EFT is an out and out air-superiority fighter. Period.

Rafale, like F-18SH, was developed with emphasis on strike capabilities along with multirole capabilities. And hence Rafale it is.

ps: Oh btw, it would be the current F3 production standard equipped with AESA radars.

 

[pkd]

BBC News - India picks French jet over Eurofighter in $10bn deal

French firm Dassault has emerged as the lowest bidder for a $10bn (£6.3bn) contract to supply India jet fighters.

Dassault Aviation will now enter final negotiations before signing the deal that will supply India's air force with 126 Rafale aircraft.

Correspondents say this is one of the world's biggest defence deals and is a major setback for rival bidder, the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Eurofighter lost out in December on an $8bn deal to supply jets to Japan.

Shares in Dassault Aviation rocketed more than 20% as the latest news broke.

'Purely cost'
Officials at the British High Commission in Delhi said they were disappointed with the decision and would now study the details.

They added: "It was expressly said this was about the cost of the contract, not a reflection on the health of bilateral relations between India and the countries."

The officials said they "genuinely believed the [Eurofighter] Typhoon offered the best capability now and in the future".

They also said it was "not beyond imagination" that India might decide the Rafale was not the right option as it continued the process.

BBC defence and diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says the Indian air force is going through an unprecedented period of modernisation; a response in part to China's developing air power.

Four other bidders had dropped out in the lengthy Indian selection process.

He says various reasons were in play in the Indian decision, including diversifying from Russian hardware and contractual problems with other bidders.

French Minister of State for Foreign Trade Pierre Lellouche welcomed the deal, the first foreign order for the Rafale multi-role jet.

He said: "This is good news and France needs good news right now... It is good news for our aerospace industry and for our defence industry."

Mr Lellouche also complained that "political pressure applied by our competitors does not make things very easy".

James Hardy, Asia Pacific specialist at IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, said this was a "big loss for Eurofighter".

"The Typhoon was widely tipped to be the favourite and had major political support from the big beasts of the Eurofighter nations. Both Germany and the UK invested a lot of time in pushing the Typhoon, so this will hurt."

Indian Defence Minister AK Antony had earlier cautioned that this remained a "long process" and that no deal would be signed before the end of March.

One Indian defence ministry source confirmed to Reuters that the Rafale had been "much cheaper unit-wise", adding: "Moreover, the Indian air force, which is well-equipped with French fighters, is favouring the French."

The Typhoon is built by the German and Spanish branches of European aerospace giant EADS, Britain's BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica.

Cassidian, the defence and security division of EADS, said it was disappointed with the decision.

It said it believed it had offered "the most modern combat aircraft available".

India is the biggest arms importer among emerging nations.

 

[KRAIT]

If Rafale C with meteor is delivered, then pakistan has to look for new AMRAAM and powerful radar (better than multimode pulse doppler) in their aircraft. Any info about it. ?

 

[farhan_9909]

scrap j-10B deal
invest that money into block III and make it able to carry a ws-10A/B size engine and AESA.it will be no less than J-10B

and the rest of money into the single engine stealth fighter(as i heard that PAF officials has visited china and they have shown them a model of single engine stealth fighter)

its better to buy even J-11B than J-10B

i dnt knw why PAF is all after a fighter a little better than JFT II or comparable to JFT III(2016) and J-10B delivery by 2015.
waht is the difference than