Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[Don Jaguar]

We already have missiles capable of reaching every corner of India. Until things are looking up for our economy. I believe we should set our priorities straight,

And they have anti ballistic missiles to shoot them.

economic revival first, then armament.

Agreed with this part.

 

[Big Boss]

The Indian French Connection means:

1. The french subs are out of the equation
2. The JFT avionics are also gone for good.
3. Reliance on:
a. JFT and enhnced/improved version with combo of Chinese and Italian avionics
b. J-10 Becomes more attaractive buy. Modified J10B for PAF is now the only econimcally viable option, given the economy
c. Deep strike will be with F-16's. More will be bought or transferred. This political problem will be sorted out with gains on both side and a more even keel relationship. The Saudi connection will ensure that.

With current numbers as a baseline figure, roughly 80 odd F-16, 150+ JFT, and 60 odd J-10 will form the fighter force of roughly 300 plane force. A force equipped with BVR accross the board. 200 of these would be air refuelable (Atleast). The hunt for advanced radars will gian momentum to equip an all BVR force.

I suspect PAF will now go for enhnaced number of high altitude missile batteries to ensure point defence of airbases and stratlocs.

We need to understand that in case of a limited scale, short duration war (The IBG's of the Cold Start are designed to inflict, short, quick thrusts to ensure limited tactical gians over atleast eight sectors), PAF would only need to defend its airspace and ensure CAS of both its Navy and Army.

PA is already equipped with dispropotionately high number of ATGW's to blunt an armoured thrust. They would now need to be equipped with enhanced number of Manpads and mobile AAA assets.

In all its wars with India, PAF was outnumbered. In 65' it had parity in terms of quality. This qualatative edge was let go in 71'. Since than, in best of times, we have never been able to match the numbers and the increased quality of a/c being bought by India. Remember the late eighties, 200 Jaguars, and 50 Mirage 2000? While we stuck with 40 F-16 alongwith fair weather mirages and F-6's.

This is nothing new. The game is to enhance our misisle cover, both high and med altitude and increase the manpads.

1. Think tankji you are forgetting that all of these wars you have mentioned India have to divert its forces to 3 fronts west pakistan, east pakistan and china now we have only 2 fronts to take care of.

2. With the quality of Indian air defense through purchase and made in India systems deep strike by F-16 as you have mentioned is not possible.

3. India will further make it thinner for pakistan by scattering your assets along your coastline through the use of its multiple aircraft carrier + Su 30 MKIs.

 

[Icarus]

And they have anti ballistic missiles to shoot them.



Agreed with this part.

That's why we have ALCMs like Ra'ad, It's terrain hugging, impossible to shoot down. Neutralize defences then progress further. However, I must stress that Nuclear Warfare in the Sub-Continent is highly if not completely unlikely. Weather patterns and the proximity of nuclear armed states ensure that nuclear weapons effect people other than your intended targets. And those people have plenty of bite in them too.

 

[farhan_9909]

No doubt J10B is the world class fighter. But why go for same multirole fighter aircraft projects?? India has chosen Rafale because they already have superiority fighter i.e Mig29. So there is no reason to buy Eurofighter unless they have no air superiority fighter.
J10 and JF17 are both multirole fighter aircraft. J10 has some + speed than JF17. But. Speed is not only decider factor.
JF17 Block2/3 is understandable to put same stuff as in J10B. i.e AESA radar....

But i said no need for J10 as they are almost for same role(multirole fighter aircraft).

In current scenario i see Reason to pursue J10b is if we get Ready available fighters.

you are right
j-10B cost us 53millions
JFT IIIvs J-10B
it has a 6ton payload(present JFT 4600kg in block III atleast expect 6ton or 5 ton)
speed nt a issue at all though with block III this gap will be filled

both has same weapons package as well as both will have a AESA

its better nt to buy a 3rd multirole fighter(after f-16 and JFTI ,II,III)

and invest that money into a dedicated air superiority fighter lets say J-11BS from china only 2 squarden as a stop gap and go for a stealth project

otherwise it will be too late
As IAF plans are massive.

 

[Rank]

[/COLOR]

1. Think tankji you are forgetting that all of these wars you have mentioned India have to divert its forces to 3 fronts west pakistan, east pakistan and china now we have only 2 fronts to take care of.

2. With the quality of Indian air defense through purchase and made in India systems deep strike by F-16 as you have mentioned is not possible.

3. India will further make it thinner for pakistan by scattering your assets along your coastline through the use of its multiple aircraft carrier + Su 30 MKIs.

Might be you are right @ every point but i never ever agreed on your Aircraft carrier story.. even i never feel US aircraft carrier is problem for Pakistan. Pakistan have enough capability to destroy carrier you can't stop multiple nuclear or cruse missile strike over the AC. Nor even US naval command capable to stop massive missile strike against the carrier its totally huge wastage of money ...

 

[Big Boss]

My 2 cents:

1. Now, pakistan have become more dependent on US of A and china.

2. USA can hard bargain and the situation in Afghanistan will also have an effect as pakistan looses its bargaining power.

3. Then there is a possibility of a kill switch in F-16 from USA.

India will go for about 200 Rafale as Tejas will take time in maturing.

 

[Last Hope]

It would eventually depend on the date of delivery. Between 2014-2016, PAF would have operational squadrons J-10B and JF-17 Block II. Likely to be in Mianwali. With a good network of SAM batteries, and radar on the west, the danger gets reduced. And after 2016, PAF is likely to have a 5th Generation fighter in it's inventory, developed by PAC and CAC. (PS. This was supposed to be 'JF-17 Block III' but now would come out with a new name/)

With BVR technology and likely AESA on J-10Bs, the threat is under control for PAF. Not to forget the 5th Squadron on the South Eastern border (Jacobabad) who are holding the Block 52s and AMRAAMs on the ADA. Adding these with the MLU-ed F-16s, the threat can be engaged before J-10Bs or JF-17 Block IIs.

Edit: Always winning the edge in training/capability, PAF pilots are sharp and sound to counter any threat. PAF's experience would be greater than IAF's (in flying Rafale). History has proven itself, as Aamir Hussain already highlighted. Outnumbered and engaging better technology that what we had, still enabled us to win the edge in air warfare.

 

[Big Boss]

[/COLOR]

Might be you are right @ every point but i never ever agreed on your Aircraft carrier story.. even i never feel US aircraft carrier is problem for Pakistan. Pakistan have enough capability to destroy carrier you can't stop multiple nuclear or cruse missile strike over the AC. Nor even US naval command capable to stop massive missile strike against the carrier its totally huge wastage of money ...

Friend, you have not understand my point, just read it again.

I am not saying that we will destroy your cities or attack you or Aircraf carrier is capable of doing that (It can do it BTW), what I have said is that aircraft carrier will make add to your wastage and thinner ur defense because of limited number of aircrafts.

Suppose you deploy 50 aircrafts to secure your coastline from aircraft carrier + few SU30MKI then obviously its a wastage and make ur defence thinner.

 

[Tiger Awan]

And after 2016, PAF is likely to have a 5th Generation fighter in it's inventory, developed by PAC and CAC. (PS. This was supposed to be 'JF-17 Block III' but now would come out with a new name/)

then you woke up

 

[Don Jaguar]

That's why we have ALCMs like Ra'ad, It's terrain hugging, impossible to shoot down. Neutralize defences then progress further. However, I must stress that Nuclear Warfare in the Sub-Continent is highly if not completely unlikely. Weather patterns and the proximity of nuclear armed states ensure that nuclear weapons effect people other than your intended targets. And those people have plenty of bite in them too.

And to launch Ra'ad we need a jet plus its range is only 350 KM and the jet we will use to launch this missile will have to face Su-30MKI and rafale.

 

[Yeti]

Pakistan does indeed have cruise missiles but do not forget we have the Israeli Spyder missile which can hit cruise missiles

 

[Storm Force]

LAST HOPE.

nice optimistc post

IAF has just made the prefect choice. A TRUE MULTI ROLE FIGHTER with the most advanced jammers and spectra EW suite in the world bar F22.

rafale for india will be tranche 3 and will include RBE2 aesa radar. One generation ahead of the USA APG79...

Rafale is a COMBAT PROVEN leading MMRCA as proven LIBYA & afghanistan. campaigns

F16 TYPHOON & TORNADOS have all played 2nd fiddle to the highly advanced mature fighter.

PAFS answer

Should be

F16/60

fc20 (if you trust tech VERSIS french tech)

AND IN LARGE NOS IE 120+

 

[jbond197]

Come on.. Why all are all getting finicky all of a sudden? India had to chose one of the Aircraft any way and this process was going on for several years. I am sure planners in Pakistan would have thought during this time about how to neutralize the threat. There is no reason for any body to get charged up about this deal.

Also, must I say in the end that the chances of India using these birds against Pakistan is very minimal/bleak/close to negative.

 

[farhan_9909]

I repeat again there is no other option than going for a Air superiority fighter

and the only available option is j-11B.

we can delay the j-10B program and get 2 squarden of j-11B by 2014-15
than we might think of getting the J-10B after 2015 as may be economy is getting better or in better position that time as this govt is already on run within months

 

[jackyy]

so rafales for nuclear command
rafales for IAF
rafales for indian navy too.

this tender is more than 20 billion dollars