Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[Imran Khan]

The most logical answer is to pursue J-10B on priority basis with the addition of additional JF-17s as Winjammer pointed out. The reason I say so is because India will have 12 Rafales by the end of 2012.

j-10b is not yet ready to be transfered but rafale is so we have to little more wait

 

[asad71]

Is this coming loaded with US and Israeli eqpt, tools and weapons?

 

[Imran Khan]

Is this coming loaded with US and Israeli eqpt, tools and weapons?

nope french has so much to offer them dear .

 

[Lankan Ranger]

150 JF-17 jets (Block 1 & Block 2)

36 J-10B jets

All will be delivered to PAF by 2015

PAF Strategy for 2015 – 2020 will be to deal with Indian T-50 (PAK FA)

In future the main challenge for the PAF will be Indian T-50 (PAK FA), Not Rafale

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The Indian French Connection means:

1. The french subs are out of the equation
2. The JFT avionics are also gone for good.
3. Reliance on:
a. JFT and enhnced/improved version with combo of Chinese and Italian avionics
b. J-10 Becomes more attaractive buy. Modified J10B for PAF is now the only econimcally viable option, given the economy
c. Deep strike will be with F-16's. More will be bought or transferred. This political problem will be sorted out with gains on both side and a more even keel relationship. The Saudi connection will ensure that.

With current numbers as a baseline figure, roughly 80 odd F-16, 150+ JFT, and 60 odd J-10 will form the fighter force of roughly 300 plane force. A force equipped with BVR accross the board. 200 of these would be air refuelable (Atleast). The hunt for advanced radars will gian momentum to equip an all BVR force.

I suspect PAF will now go for enhnaced number of high altitude missile batteries to ensure point defence of airbases and stratlocs.

We need to understand that in case of a limited scale, short duration war (The IBG's of the Cold Start are designed to inflict, short, quick thrusts to ensure limited tactical gians over atleast eight sectors), PAF would only need to defend its airspace and ensure CAS of both its Navy and Army.

PA is already equipped with dispropotionately high number of ATGW's to blunt an armoured thrust. They would now need to be equipped with enhanced number of Manpads and mobile AAA assets.

In all its wars with India, PAF was outnumbered. In 65' it had parity in terms of quality. This qualatative edge was let go in 71'. Since than, in best of times, we have never been able to match the numbers and the increased quality of a/c being bought by India. Remember the late eighties, 200 Jaguars, and 50 Mirage 2000? While we stuck with 40 F-16 alongwith fair weather mirages and F-6's.

This is nothing new. The game is to enhance our misisle cover, both high and med altitude and increase the manpads.

 

[Imran Khan]

150 JF-17 jets (Block 1 & Block 2)

36 J-10B jets

All will be delivered to PAF by 2015

PAF Strategy for 2015 – 2020 will be to deal with Indian T-50 (PAK FA)

In future the main challenge for the PAF will be Indian T-50 (PAK FA), Not Rafale

i wish pakistan ignore this madness of arms race and stop thinking abut it as we have more then enough to defend us now .

 

[z9-ec]

j-10b is not yet ready to be transfered but rafale is so we have to little more wait

For now we can compensate with F-16s plus JF-17s. For the long term, PAF needs to fast track J-10B and not delay any further. However, we should first evaluate the package India is getting (radar, weapons and etc) and follow suit along the lines to counter it.

 

[truthseeker2010]

This is IMO a political decision, because technically I do not think rafale is better than EF. Anyways congrats to indians for finally raising the curtain...

 

[Imran Khan]

Why was it considered not good options apart from economics? found better one ? like f-22 or something???

they are not kids as we are . they first look are they really need it? its suitable for there doctrine ? is there same capable jet with less price ? what is future of this 40 years deal? then they pic it . what if we pic it and after WOT we become under sanctions and these birds just sit idle on ground? there is so many factors then dick measure with indians for PAF or GOP before buy a jet .and a country has no full mission ko buy jets and jets they have so many other things to do .

or they must but it for make us proud on defence.pk ?

 

[Donatello]

The Indian French Connection means:

1. The french subs are out of the equation
2. The JFT avionics are also gone for good.
3. Reliance on:
a. JFT and enhnced/improved version with combo of Chinese and Italian avionics
b. J-10 Becomes more attaractive buy. Modified J10B for PAF is now the only econimcally viable option, given the economy
c. Deep strike will be with F-16's. More will be bought or transferred. This political problem will be sorted out with gains on both side and a more even keel relationship. The Saudi connection will ensure that.

With current numbers as a baseline figure, roughly 80 odd F-16, 150+ JFT, and 60 odd J-10 will form the fighter force of roughly 300 plane force. A force equipped with BVR accross the board. 200 of these would be air refuelable (Atleast). The hunt for advanced radars will gian momentum to equip an all BVR force.

I suspect PAF will now go for enhnaced number of high altitude missile batteries to ensure point defence of airbases and stratlocs.

We need to understand that in case of a limited scale, short duration war (The IBG's of the Cold Start are designed to inflict, short, quick thrusts to ensure limited tactical gians over atleast eight sectors), PAF would only need to defend its airspace and ensure CAS of both its Navy and Army.

PA is already equipped with dispropotionately high number of ATGW's to blunt an armoured thrust. They would now need to be equipped with enhanced number of Manpads and mobile AAA assets.

In all its wars with India, PAF was outnumbered. In 65' it had parity in terms of quality. This qualatative edge was let go in 71'. Since than, in best of times, we have never been able to match the numbers and the increased quality of a/c being bought by India. Remember the late eighties, 200 Jaguars, and 50 Mirage 2000? While we stuck with 40 F-16 alongwith fair weather mirages and F-6's.

This is nothing new. The game is to enhance our misisle cover, both high and med altitude and increase the manpads.

Aamir,

PN was not after French subs.....wasn't it the type 214? Or maybe you meant the Agosta 90s? I mean, PN can still procure from the Germans.

Similarly, as the Eurofighter consortium would be sitting idle after filling their existing customers, PAF can approach their avionics......like Thales/BAE systes etc for upgrade to JF-17s avionics.

Also, Italians are not out of the equation yet...only French.

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------

While the acquisition of cheap fighters in the late 90's was cheap but a lot was spent upgrading them, also during those times..due to the threat of sanctions we could not buy stuff that we wanted.. it was not free either. The PAF's budget increase also accounts for inflation. The best time for the PAF was just before the 2005 earthquake. We really did have the funds to even go for the EF if we wanted.. but the amount we could procure for that cost was not cost effective vs the F-16.

Currently.. despite the increasing budget figures.. its actually a relative decrease to what it was when inflation and overall economy is taken into account.
The PAF's F-16 and Erieye fleet is taking up most of the new purchase budget.. as the JF-17, the ZDK are all on deferred payments to the Chinese.
Military aircraft are expensive to maintain.. purchase cost is not the only thing that matters.
Multiple types also compound costs.. and till recently the PAF technically operated 7 different types of aircraft. with the Mirage III and V counted as two different types.

The economy today is even worse than reported.. and the PAF is struggling to even pay off the loans its owes for its purchases.

Okay so i hid my message pretty well in my post....but what i meant was, if inflation has taken the toll, then why not on the increasing costs of the VIP expenses, BMWs and Golf Courses.

If you know what i mean.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

The topic here is rafale and possiblities yaar... not rehman malik or anything.. im not trolling vrolling.. asking u a simple question man...

If some one gives any other reason for not selecting RAFALE other then money then it might be his own claim.
We found J-10b economical and equally capable for doing same kind of multirole jobs. SIMPLE.

 

[saiyan0321]

we have what we need we are going the right way get the entire air force under pakistan made products if we start an arms race like that we wont last a second our think tankers are at work they see what we need for defence and is it feasible right now jft is the best option not rafale.... remember quality not quantity and quality with spending less money is the best for us

 

[SQ8]

They might be there for censer talk for JFT in early 2000s. You guys always after F-16s.

Nope.. the idea was of the french as they wanted to offer a Rafale purchase along with JFT avionics and weapons..

 

[saiyan0321]

If some one post any other reason for not selecting RAFALE other the money then it might be his own claim.
We found J-10b economical and equally capable for doing same kind of multirole jobs. SIMPLE.

exactly its nothing to hide or be shamed about we just dont have the cash to get the plane and even if we did that would make it to diverse we mirages f16 and jf17 now i dont think we need more diversity for one role of plane i say work the fleet and then for chinese 5th gen plane

 

[Mav3rick]

the internet is buzzing with the news (not officially confirmed) that the IAF has selected Rafale as its MMRCA.

what options PAF and its planners can come up with now that the IAF has chosen this advanced platform?

We are very capable of defending ourselves from India, so how about we look for peace and display the same aggression in solving all conflicts/issues through peaceful dialogues. Peaceful borders mean we can concentrate on economy and matters within.