Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[Edevelop]

What is Rafale comparable with? Rather than comparing it in xyz thread, i would like to know which fighters are in its class. For sure, Eurofighter is one, because obliviously it was undecidable by IAF. I am guessing, F-15,F-18, Mig-35, Su-30, J-11, and J-10 are excellent and they should be and must be in it's class.

 

[Black Widow]

I don't think India's decision is a solid one either and I don't see any timetables being met as well (lets face it till now none were met as well).

Indications are that the French were the lower bidders, which further indicates that the Indian financial crises played its role. The amount of INR that it would have cost India has exponentially increased since the rupee devalued. Moreover we still don't know if the Rafale can even take on the Su-30 MKI.

Pakistan needs to continue on its path of upgrading JF-17s and then moving to J-10s and J-20s.

I didn't quite understand the relevance of your Afghanistan comment.

Rupee value can improve also in next few years. Its not Indian financial crisis. Both palnes were equaly capable, Lowest bidder would got it (I think this is how tenders work , Let me know if it work other way round in Pakistan).

@Afghanistan: even I didn't uinderstand his comment.

@Rafeal and MKI: Bothe are different role fighetr in IAF so don't compatre them.

 

[deckingraj]

Absurd..?!you are comparing airwar scenario on a land border with a ocean scenario thousands of miles away from each other bases..?

What i am trying to tell you is that irrespective of what your adversary is fielding you need to keep thinking of ways to counter the attack well within your limits...you cannot simply say who cares, we are dead so let them do what they want...

IN is no match for PLAN only on the other side of the malaccas..on this side...atleast now, IN can successfully thwart any attempt by PLAN...

Exactly and why is this so??? bcoz IN will play defensive should a war beak out with China...IN can not play offensive in this context and thus can outmatch a much larger navy...Do you see the analogy???

yes PAF doctrine is defensive..but it doesnt mean much....what im saying is rafale will be a big deal only if the purchase of it tilts the balance of power towards iaf...but thats not the case...the balance of power is already lopsided in favour of iaf with upgradation of mirages, fulcrums and the presence of mkis along with our own AWACs...

What you are not getting is the proverb that i used in counter to yours...As said due to Awacs and home ground benefits for PAF, IAF fighters are going to loose some key benefits..This is an important point and cannot be ignored...In fact if you are talking about relative positions then PAF capabilities are improving viz-a-viz IAF especially in the last 5-7 years...There was a time when they had no BVR capable plane and now they have around 500 BVRAAMS which are second to none...Like us they also have got AWACS which may be less capable then ours but good enough for their requirements...In fact that is a good example to bring in a message - A less capable machine can solve the purpose in certain context...I hope you get my point...

its only on the eastern border will the presence of rafale make a crucial difference to our own defensive capabilities...

You are right...However if rafaels are good for PLAAF then they surely are good for PAF as well...They will add to already sorry(because of money constraints) saga for PAF...The parity differnce that PAF managed to tilt somewhat in their side after a big gap of 90's will again move towards India...It is very important that in tough times an adversary must do whatever it can to not allow the parity to go away for good...otherwise when good times come there will not be any chance to bring back the status quo....

oh well..that was a proverb....whose meaning was not be taken literally...but the basic point is it doesnt matter what paf does...the tech difference is too large and will only increase...

And mine was one too...Don't take it literally...My point is that this situation is there bcoz of only one reason...Bad economy....Once Pakistan economy improves things will improve there too...Thus it is important to keep hanging in there...

 

[Arsalan]

Congrats to the Indian Fellows. Rafael is without doubt a nice high tech platform.
However, I am just bit surprised that the EF and SU-35 that were the prime heroes till yesterday, and were the best in the world, how the suddenly got second to Rafael overnight in the humble opinion os some of respectable Indian members

Wow
What a change of fate for the Rafael!!!
No it’s the Best!!!

 

[Arsalan]

and yes, selection of Rafael is good for US as well.
it will be easier to answer the Rafael factor then it would have been to tackle the EF.
EF is no doubt much better then any of the bidders in MMRCA tender.
i guess there were some kick back or financial constrain involved as well in selection of Rafael

the new J-10B will be a good match for this western platform.

even the upgraded JFT with AESA and better engine will be a good competition!!
i agree there is some time in getting JFT with AESA but then again, there is also time in IAF getting good number of Rafael!!

 

[gubbi]

Congrats to the Indian Fellows. Rafael is without doubt a nice high tech platform.
However, I am just bit surprised that the EF and SU-35 that were the prime heroes till yesterday, and were the best in the world, how the suddenly got second to Rafael overnight in the humble opinion os some of respectable Indian members

Wow
What a change of fate for the Rafael!!!
No it’s the Best!!!

Thanks. But its Dassault Rafale.

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems ltd. is the Israeli defense tech company.

 

[prabhakar]

Congrats to the Indian Fellows. Rafael is without doubt a nice high tech platform.
However, I am just bit surprised that the EF and SU-35 that were the prime heroes till yesterday, and were the best in the world, how the suddenly got second to Rafael overnight in the humble opinion os some of respectable Indian members

Wow
What a change of fate for the Rafael!!!
No it’s the Best!!!

We never said anything ... Su 35 is rejected long back..wake up dude...

And there was rumors going on about EF ..so hold your horses and try to analyse it objectively... and not like an internet warrior.

 

[ziaulislam]

first
from 1947 to till now IAF has always operated generation ahead of aircrafts from the PAF(except perhaps in 80s when we got f-16s but even then we had f-6s and they mig21). PAF has never been able to get superiority over IAF it had lagged in 1/3 both in number and quality
infact thunders are better as they are atleast in same generation as rafale. with IRST and AESA may be equal to it.

second what indians are doing is that they aare comparing aircrafts capability to their price!?..i mean rafale are best because they are expensive then f-16s,j-10s,gripen or fact that they are four times better as thunder are 3 to four times cheaper? a lame point. we forget to that russian equipment with same capability is half price of western equipments and chinese stuff is even cheaper that russians.


third
j-10s will be definitely in the league of rafale, it will have AESA(infact j-10b already has)

fourth
this desicion wouldnt change the plans of PAF, as it already knew by 2007 that a new fourth gen aircrft will be inducted in IAF

l

 

[Kazhugu]

What i am trying to tell you is that irrespective of what your adversary is fielding you need to keep thinking of ways to counter the attack well within your limits...you cannot simply say who cares, we are dead so let them do what they want...

Exactly and why is this so??? bcoz IN will play defensive should a war beak out with China...IN can not play offensive in this context and thus can outmatch a much larger navy...Do you see the analogy???

its not a correct analogy...because currently IN is the boss this side of the malaccas and can pretty much handle anything the PLAN fields because of lack of logistics of PLAN and andaman and nicobar islands...

What you are not getting is the proverb that i used in counter to yours...As said due to Awacs and home ground benefits for PAF, IAF fighters are going to loose some key benefits..This is an important point and cannot be ignored...In fact if you are talking about relative positions then PAF capabilities are improving viz-a-viz IAF especially in the last 5-7 years...There was a time when they had no BVR capable plane and now they have around 500 BVRAAMS which are second to none...Like us they also have got AWACS which may be less capable then ours but good enough for their requirements...In fact that is a good example to bring in a message - A less capable machine can solve the purpose in certain context...I hope you get my point...

You are right...However if rafaels are good for PLAAF then they surely are good for PAF as well...They will add to already sorry(because of money constraints) saga for PAF...The parity differnce that PAF managed to tilt somewhat in their side after a big gap of 90's will again move towards India...It is very important that in tough times an adversary must do whatever it can to not allow the parity to go away for good...otherwise when good times come there will not be any chance to bring back the status quo....

And mine was one too...Don't take it literally...My point is that this situation is there bcoz of only one reason...Bad economy....Once Pakistan economy improves things will improve there too...Thus it is important to keep hanging in there...

well never mind..you seem not to be getting what im trying to say....the rafale is not the gamechanger in the indo-pak air war balance...it was the MKI that claimed the honors....while rafale can yet claim it in the Eastern front....

 

[farhan_9909]

and yes, selection of Rafael is good for US as well.
it will be easier to answer the Rafael factor then it would have been to tackle the EF.
EF is no doubt much better then any of the bidders in MMRCA tender.
i guess there were some kick back or financial constrain involved as well in selection of Rafael

the new J-10B will be a good match for this western platform.

even the upgraded JFT with AESA and better engine will be a good competition!!
i agree there is some time in getting JFT with AESA but then again, there is also time in IAF getting good number of Rafael!!

yarr i amv ery happy they selected rafale instead of EFT

j-10B against EFT wasnt a good option

bt j-10B if the AESA,IRST,and the proposed ws-10G come true than it can giev a tough competition to rafale as well as it can fight head to head with rafale

 

[ziaulislam]

and yes, selection of Rafael is good for US as well.
it will be easier to answer the Rafael factor then it would have been to tackle the EF.
EF is no doubt much better then any of the bidders in MMRCA tender.
i guess there were some kick back or financial constrain involved as well in selection of Rafael

the new J-10B will be a good match for this western platform.

even the upgraded JFT with AESA and better engine will be a good competition!!
i agree there is some time in getting JFT with AESA but then again, there is also time in IAF getting good number of Rafael!!

true j-10B with AESA, IRST and advance avionics will definitely be match for any fourth gen aircrft. chinese have mtured their avionics to level to work on fifth gen aircrfts

people do talk about thunders engine but to be honest we should look at t/w ratio rather and thunder with nearly one(0.97-1.01) is at par with any jet. it only makes it short legged and low carrying capacity but thunder was suppose to be like this to decrease its operational costs
well established aircrafts like mirages2000 had a much lower T/w ratio than either F-16s or thunders..
in short RD-93 is suffcient for PAF needs..i think only issue is its life which is quiet short as compared to western ones

 

[rockstarIN]

Congrats to the Indian Fellows. Rafael is without doubt a nice high tech platform.
However, I am just bit surprised that the EF and SU-35 that were the prime heroes till yesterday, and were the best in the world, how the suddenly got second to Rafael overnight in the humble opinion os some of respectable Indian members

Wow
What a change of fate for the Rafael!!!
No it’s the Best!!!

If you go to the poll section in Rafale Vs EF, you can see most preferred one is Rafale (though I voted for EF)

Means, there is no first and second, only lowest bidder...

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------

first
from 1947 to till now IAF has always operated generation ahead of aircrafts from the PAF(except perhaps in 80s when we got f-16s but even then we had f-6s and they mig21). PAF has never been able to get superiority over IAF it had lagged in 1/3 both in number and quality
infact thunders are better as they are atleast in same generation as rafale. with IRST and AESA may be equal to it.

second what indians are doing is that they aare comparing aircrafts capability to their price!?..i mean rafale are best because they are expensive then f-16s,j-10s,gripen or fact that they are four times better as thunder are 3 to four times cheaper? a lame point. we forget to that russian equipment with same capability is half price of western equipments and chinese stuff is even cheaper that russians.


third
j-10s will be definitely in the league of rafale, it will have AESA(infact j-10b already has)

fourth
this desicion wouldnt change the plans of PAF, as it already knew by 2007 that a new fourth gen aircrft will be inducted in IAF

l

And you guys tell it is hilarious when we compare Mig-21 Bison to JF-17 uh?

 

[Arsalan]

We never said anything ... Su 35 is rejected long back..wake up dude...

And there was rumors going on about EF ..so hold your horses and try to analyse it objectively... and not like an internet warrior.

hey, no one is being internet warrior. an i never pointed you out.

i totally agree to the fact that rafale is no doubt a good machine.
only pointing to the fact that a few months back, it was not THE BEST!!!

anyway, no objeections!!

 

[imiakhtar]

what options PAF and its planners can come up with now that the IAF has chosen this advanced platform?

Unless Pakistan has a few billions to spare, the PAF has no options whatsoever.

I see Pakistan adding a few more EDA F-16 aircraft from the US and at a stretch the J-10. Though even then, on a qualitative level, they'd be no match for the rafale.

 

[farhan_9909]

not to forgot that the best variant of ws-10 will be used on j-10B for pakistan

if this is ws-10G than it will make J-10B single engine to produce thrust than rafale twin engines

nodoubt the the speed as well as the payload will increase