Opinion | 10 'outrageously unthinkable' yet pragmatic solutions to Pakistan's major problems.

[Android]

Kashmir and Afghanistan: These two are related. If we let go of our interests in these territories, we might as well let go of KPK and Baluchistan. The terrorism and separatism will mushroom thousand fold, making the last decade look like a picnic. Any "assurances" to the contrary won't be worth the paper they are signed on. The details of this domino effect are left as an exercise for the reader (hint: use an atlas).

The above point might be true for Afghanistan but not Indian administered Kashmir if India really decides to train and send terrorists across the border into Pakistan go start secessionist movement over there it can easily do so from Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujarat or Arabian Sea route Kashmir is not the only option

 

[ZYXW]

@Aeronaut

Very interesting analysis indeed! This presented some strong ideas and is well written. However, this is my critique! This is JUST my opinion. I am in no position to offer criticism but since you asked for honesty, here goes:
1. Quitting Afghanistan – I disagree! The world is changing. Fighting the soviets in the past may have had its negative impacts, but it had several positive ones as well. For example, the ISI was trained by the CIA, close ties with the US and etc. Although it is definitely not necessary to fight Afghanistan’s war in the future, control over the Afghan region is necessary for Pakistan! The world is changing. We are heading into a world, in which cyber warfare is increasing. This can be seen with Iran and the US. When was the last time the US fought an actual war? WW2 I believe!

Due to an increase in nuclear weapons, countries are resorting to cyber warfare than actual war. Thus, Afghanistan is significant! Control of the region will give us an advantage against India if we assume that ties remain strained between Pakistan and India. With China and India competing for hegemony in the region, every factor is significant. We can “trust” India to not use Afghanistan against Pakistan; however, considering the about 60 year long history, it would be very risky! You stated that we can “vaporize India.” Statements like that are easy to make, but do you have ANY idea of the amount of damage nukes cause? Innocent people die, and no politics or the security of any state is worth those deaths. At the end of the day, these governments and states are made for people, not the other way around! But if we come back to facts and ways other than using nuclear weapons - your ideas are highly optimistic, which is a good thing of course, but if we are discussing politics, it’s all about power and security. It is in a state’s nature to find ways to secure itself. Even if Pakistan does not use Afghanistan as a shield, India will or china will!

For this to work, it would be essential for Pakistan to have a good relationship with India. For that, Pakistan would have to change internally first, which is a challenge on its own. If relations with India are strained and India has control of Afghanistan, Pakistan would be at a disadvantage. I know what you will respond with : Pakistan can built an army strong enough to defend itself from India. I am sure it can, but until it does and until we can be sure we have that, Afghanistan is crucial. You have made a lot of points which can be countered easily. If you want to publish this, I suggest you corroborate your argument with facts and examples. Also, place an anti-thesis for each section so it is well structured and begin with a thesis.

Having said all this Aero, I am just a silly 19 year old. I have a lot to learn. What I have written here could be just bs for all I know; however, it was just my opinion and I only responded because it was YOU asking! This was very good and the effort and patriotism that went into this analysis is commendable! It really is!

Lmaoooo sorry too lazy to respond to the other points…lmk is you want any in particular!

 

[janon]

Other than the very valid point about staying out of the Iran-Arab conflict and focusing on the economy, I disagree with most other points.

Identity crisis: While this concept is fashionable amongst Indians and certain Pakistani circles, it is a manufactured crisis. It does not exist. Pakistan has a governance crisis, a law enforcement crisis, not an identity crisis. Solve governance -- curb criminal activity -- and the so-called identity crisis will evaporate.

Kashmir and Afghanistan: These two are related. If we let go of our interests in these territories, we might as well let go of KPK and Baluchistan. The terrorism and separatism will mushroom thousand fold, making the last decade look like a picnic. Any "assurances" to the contrary won't be worth the paper they are signed on. The details of this domino effect are left as an exercise for the reader (hint: use an atlas).

India: Regardless of what it claims, India wants to become the hegemon for the region and beyond. That means subjugation of Pakistan and other regional countries. If India can't even dominate its neighborhood, no one will take its claims to global status seriously.

Israel: While I don't deny that Israeli lobbies in the West have the power to deliver much, it is also certain that they won't deliver anything of substance. The fact is that Israel doesn't give a damn whether Pakistan recognizes it or not, so it has no reason to "pay out" for Pakistani recognition. Pakistan's troubles with the West have gone far beyond Israel; they have to do with global superpower politics.

1) Identity crisis: In my opinion, it does exist for Pakistan as a nation, because of the circumstances of its formation, an the subsequent history. I agree that solving the other crises you mentioned will solve most of Pakistan's problems, but I am not so sure that that will solve the identity crisis. However, that is not necessarily a bad thing - nations don't really need to have a unique identity (other than being a nation-state) to be successful. The identity crisis (which exists in my opinion, and doesn't exist in yours) is the last of Pakistan's problems, in fact may not even be a problem. If the country can live prosperously as a nation state, then lack of a unifying identity will not matter. That is India's case - a tamilian and a Punjabi and a gujrati have very different cultural identities, but it does not really matter, since the existence of the nation-state has not been threatened since independence. (The potential Sikh mutiny was the closest it came.)

2) I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion. It is your involvement in Afghanistan that later brought in the Kalashnikov culture, and most of today's terrorism and separatism. Complete non intervention in Afghanistan, coupled with maintaining an impermeable border, would have meant a lot LESS terrorism today, not more. Sealing off your country's territory (including balochistan, NWFP etc) from Afghanistan would have worked out a lot better for you, and probably still would.

3) That is simply your imagination. India has neither the desire, nor the capability to "subjugate" her neighbors, whatever that means. Defending our territory is all we want to do. India has not undertaken military expeditions to neighboring countries, unless invited. There is no way that you can call India a hegemon.

4) The Israel bit is tricky. It can only be in Pakistan's interest to have relations with a rich, powerful and technologically sophisticated country like Israel. Opening relations with them would also enable you to score pints with all of Israel's friends - and believe it or not, they have many powerful friends. And Israel's enemies - as @Aeronaut pointed out above, Israel's so called enemies all have dealings with Israel, more so than Pakistan does. Does Pakistan want to remain isolated from Israel so as not to earn the displeasure of countries who have relations with Israel in all but name? It will work well for Israel as well, to have relations with the second biggest muslim country. That can go a long way for them to ensure other muslim countries that they are not against muslims per se.

However, the catch is that normalizing relations with Israel will not be possible in the current atmosphere in Pakistan. Which govt or party would risk doing that, and be accused of all sorts of things by their opponents? With fights being waged in some parts to figure out who is a real muslim and who isn't, with some insurgent groups wanting to impose sharia rule and so on, there is no way for the govt to reach out to Israel.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Good observations but Pakistani Government doesn't have the power for these kind of policy shift and Pakistani Army won't do it because it's against their interests

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Fantastic article.

This to me is exactly how nations should work.

Nothing in geopolitics is more important than your country and its interests. One's own country is like the geopolitical equivalent of a family, important above anything else.

 

[Icarus]

The entire thing is very well conceived but some insight on your thoughts on the domestic situation would also be appreciated.

 

[Zarvan]

When Musharraf talked about 'Sab say pehlay Pakistan' - everyone just gave him a funny look, remember?
Mr first if you would leave Afghanistan


Why should we care if it doesn't get solved for another 10 decades?




How? - please elaborate.



I disagree - Israel is 'irrelevant' to national interests, if we can get some big international benefits in return for recognizing them as a state i-e NSG membership, preferential trade, i think we should have diplomatic relations with them - how do you plead?




Palestine is irrelevant to our national interests. What can Palestine offer in return for our support?




Pakistan no longer requires non state actors for national defense. They have become irrelevant on 28th may 1998. Right now they are a baggage we need to get rid off.



We don't want to become one either.



We don't need anyone's help to defend our country. Those who think, we do are delusional.



OIC is a dead organization. Let Saudis run it the way they want to run it.



No, its not a must . We build our military gear ourselves, we have one of the best training facilities and one of the best trained armed forces in the world. We need to focus on our economy, so we can buy the gear we can't produce.



Let India handle Afghans. I am perfectly fine with that. Afghanistan is not important to us the way it used to be, therefore we don't need to bleed our resources on them as much as we used to.



No, it will bring peace and stability, once we start taking care our 'our own problems'.



Why not allow them to mend relations themselves? - Its a racist conflict they have, let THEM sort it out, if they want to go and prove who's DNA is superior - let them prove it in the battlefield as they did in Iran Iraq war- we should stay OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS.



Where was Ummah in 1948 , 65 and 71?
Do you think, Ummah is going to help us with any future war with India ? - I feel pity if you feel that they will !



Afghans love India, whats wrong with handing it over to India? -Let India deal with Afghanistan, instead of us having to deal with them.



Bhai, Kashmiris want an independent state - they don't want to join Pakistan. Why do we need to liberate them? - Why cant they liberate themselves? - Why do Pakistanis have to be killed for Kashmiris when the Kashmiris don't want much to do with Pakistan?

I want AJK to become a country. Once its done, they can liberate their Kashmiri brothers themselves, they can cope the diplomatic,economic and military blowback from India. Why should we cop it when there is nothing valuable for us?



We can.



Why can't they mediate themselves? - Why would they listen to a state with a 'begging bowl' in hand ?



What is Palestine? - Never heard of it!



If the Americans allow Pakistan the membership at NSG - free trade with North America and EU. Of Course we can have an embassy from Israel in Islamabad. Israel is a nuclear armed state, why do we need another nuclear armed nation to the list of our enemies just because of a bunch of Palest

Why do Arab states recognize Israel? - Why do they recognize India but we are not allowed to recognize Israel, is Palestine worth more than Kashmir?




I'm not talking about quitting the OIC. We just have to adapt a 'low profile' at the OIC and a 'high profile' at SCO.



Yes we do.



For whatever they want us to apologise them for. As long as they give us the business we need, as well as normal ties.



Turkey's pivot towards the Muslim world is only because they want to display their 'diplomatic muscle' to the EU, so that the EU can induct Turkey into Europe. They need to prove themselves worthy of the EU membership by 'displaying regional influence', which is the leverage they hope to trade with the EU in return for a full membership.



We need to END our alliance with the US. Join the non aligned movement and build equally vibrant relationships with all great powers of the world, with only one focus--- 'business'.

Mr first if you would leave Afghanistan than India will take your place Sir that is sure and until Palestinan issue is solved you can't afford to accept Israel and they are your enemy and they will remain your enemy you are the biggest trouble for them if they want to take over Muslim land you can only stop them and threaten them they would be always your enemy Mr

 

[Zarvan]

When Musharraf talked about 'Sab say pehlay Pakistan' - everyone just gave him a funny look, remember?





Why should we care if it doesn't get solved for another 10 decades?




How? - please elaborate.



I disagree - Israel is 'irrelevant' to national interests, if we can get some big international benefits in return for recognizing them as a state i-e NSG membership, preferential trade, i think we should have diplomatic relations with them - how do you plead?




Palestine is irrelevant to our national interests. What can Palestine offer in return for our support?




Pakistan no longer requires non state actors for national defense. They have become irrelevant on 28th may 1998. Right now they are a baggage we need to get rid off.



We don't want to become one either.



We don't need anyone's help to defend our country. Those who think, we do are delusional.



OIC is a dead organization. Let Saudis run it the way they want to run it.



No, its not a must . We build our military gear ourselves, we have one of the best training facilities and one of the best trained armed forces in the world. We need to focus on our economy, so we can buy the gear we can't produce.



Let India handle Afghans. I am perfectly fine with that. Afghanistan is not important to us the way it used to be, therefore we don't need to bleed our resources on them as much as we used to.



No, it will bring peace and stability, once we start taking care our 'our own problems'.



Why not allow them to mend relations themselves? - Its a racist conflict they have, let THEM sort it out, if they want to go and prove who's DNA is superior - let them prove it in the battlefield as they did in Iran Iraq war- we should stay OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS.



Where was Ummah in 1948 , 65 and 71?
Do you think, Ummah is going to help us with any future war with India ? - I feel pity if you feel that they will !



Afghans love India, whats wrong with handing it over to India? -Let India deal with Afghanistan, instead of us having to deal with them.



Bhai, Kashmiris want an independent state - they don't want to join Pakistan. Why do we need to liberate them? - Why cant they liberate themselves? - Why do Pakistanis have to be killed for Kashmiris when the Kashmiris don't want much to do with Pakistan?

I want AJK to become a country. Once its done, they can liberate their Kashmiri brothers themselves, they can cope the diplomatic,economic and military blowback from India. Why should we cop it when there is nothing valuable for us?



We can.



Why can't they mediate themselves? - Why would they listen to a state with a 'begging bowl' in hand ?



What is Palestine? - Never heard of it!



If the Americans allow Pakistan the membership at NSG - free trade with North America and EU. Of Course we can have an embassy from Israel in Islamabad. Israel is a nuclear armed state, why do we need another nuclear armed nation to the list of our enemies just because of a bunch of Palest

Why do Arab states recognize Israel? - Why do they recognize India but we are not allowed to recognize Israel, is Palestine worth more than Kashmir?




I'm not talking about quitting the OIC. We just have to adapt a 'low profile' at the OIC and a 'high profile' at SCO.



Yes we do.



For whatever they want us to apologise them for. As long as they give us the business we need, as well as normal ties.



Turkey's pivot towards the Muslim world is only because they want to display their 'diplomatic muscle' to the EU, so that the EU can induct Turkey into Europe. They need to prove themselves worthy of the EU membership by 'displaying regional influence', which is the leverage they hope to trade with the EU in return for a full membership.



We need to END our alliance with the US. Join the non aligned movement and build equally vibrant relationships with all great powers of the world, with only one focus--- 'business'.

your water line depends on Kashmir its your integral part giving up Kashmir you gotta be kidding second day you will ask to give up Baluchistan no Sir Israel they were your enemies they will remain your enemies and if you will not do anything and something happens to Masjid Al Aqsa your own people will first destroy your army than take on Israel on their own Sir you have to main leader in OIC not minimize your role Mr yes you have to make the most large and strongest military in the world and Muslims specially improve your economy and build bases around the Muslim world and try to form EU type thing between Muslim world with joint Armed Force other wise they would destroy you one by one yes you may have never heard of Palestine but soon this issue will either destroy you or make you no body and than you would cry the day you were born and if you think you can betray Ummah survive than try it you will have war with in your own country and whole ummah was almost under occupation in 48 in 65 and 71 they had crap in the name of military still Indonesia came and Saudi Arabia and UAE helped you Mr still than they are helping you Afghanistan either you stay their or India would come to make your life more miserable and Turkey is coming back to Islam it may take time but it would happen Mr no body can stop it not nor bunch of western slaves known as secular and liberals Palestine is far more dangerous problem Mr yes we need to solve Kashmir but have we shown people of Muslim world what India is doing in Kashmir no Sir and we need to end relation with USA and build with in Muslim Ummah and form combine defense production centers with the help of China and Russia and Euorpe if you think you can betray Ummah and survive give it a try you would become soon history and no one would remember you Mr

 

[Durrak]

You need to make your perceptions about the war of 65 and 71 and Interference of India in Afghanistan ... Later on i was discussing your article with my father what he said little bit different of what you said .. He denied your two points..

 

[Hussein]

Wise words @Aeronaut
But i guess a strng Pakistan means as well a strong region. When all our countries will be in better conditions (i can speak for mine, individual rights, no super leader, no sectarian issue, better economy, normalized relations with USA and Israel) we need to develop an economic cooperation first (like Europe did, even they were fighting each other for so long time).
I am not sure about SCO being a solution. Problem of SCO is that it mixes too different and far countries . And some countries just "think about themselves".. but never forget any solution to help your country

 

[mastaan]

@Aeronaut A well written piece with a very blunt, honest and still very profound meaning... Mate, you should think of using that sense and that ink more often! It is really refreshing and it is 'Pakistan first and nothing else matters' for the first time ever on this forum. Respect!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If the 'ummah' can't fight for us, we shouldn't even allow them to use a Pakistani chicken for sacrifice!

not sure how many of our fellow members followed one of the best election special program (only in my opinion) which was by Dr Danish that had a select people with expertise in defence, foreign relations, education etc and then there were 2 political leaders each per program who gave their vision for Pakistan. we have heard the leaders already like Imran, Munawar Hasan, , Fazl Rehman, Gen Musharaf, Sheikh Rashid etc and what is their stance but it was great to see the analysis of their speeches by the guys like AM retired Shahid Latif, Zafar Hilali (former foreign officer) . I am just downloading and cutting the specific pieces relevant to this discussion and will share soon, time and effort permitting.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Disclaimer | This thread is strictly for academic/hypothetical discussion only.

Here are a few ideas i am presenting to you guys to discuss and give me your responses. The ideas i think will help Pakistan in its security conundrum as well as help us establish peace in Pakistan. Dear friends, you must understand that Pakistan is in a state of survival - therefore drastic steps would have to be made. This hypothesis bases itself on the sense of security generated out of our Nuclear deterrent, which i believe gives us time to look away from outside and look inwards

.

still its no excuse to ignore our conventional needs

1: 'Quit Afghanistan | Strategic depth is dead'

We should stop ALL interventions in Afghan affairs

only if Afghanistan recognises the Durand line, after all it was them who started it by laying claims to Khyber pakhtunkhwa & F.A.T.A

allow India to have the transit to Afghanistan and Afghanistan to India

no access or transit for india to Afghanistan or central asia till the Kashmir dispute is not resolved even if it be a minimal one, like say they transfer us kasmir valley & we grant them full access to Afghanistan & central asia while they keep jammu, laddakh & leh for themselves & turn the modified L.O.C into an in't border

Should the worst case scenario of a hostile Afghanistan and a hostile India at the same time arise, we should focus all of our military assets to defend ourselves through a concentrated effort

.

we simply cant afford to do that

I suggest, we should conduct a referendum in Azad Kashmir with following choices.

1: Join Pakistan formally - support Pakistani efforts to turn LOC into an international border with India.
2: Become an independant state.
Its a win win situation for Pakistan either way if we stop thinking of Kashmir as a 'Muslim problem/Pakistani problem' because it is not. It is a Kashmiri problem and they are the ones who need to solve it. If they choose the 1st option in a vast majority, we mount serious efforts of peacemaking with India.
If they choose the 2nd option, its a win win for us as we will help them become a new country, UN member, OIC member and then we can leave them alone to deal with the Indians,they would have to worry about the diplomatic/military strife with India, not us. It will become a 'Kashmiri Problem' - and this territory will act as a buffer between us and Indian forces. I would rather have Indian forces patrol Kashmiri streets than patrolling mine. Kashmiri freedom is worth Pakistani blood? - i wonder if it is and how much of it will be enough. We are giving blood since 1947.

don't agree

3

: Isolation from Arab-Iran rivalry.[/B]Pakistan is a nuclear power and cannot be invaded, why should we be fighting as mercenaries for others? - I want no Pakistani boots outside Pakistan for ANY reason, for ANY country. Arab Iranian rivalry has a racist undertone, which Pakistan must not become a part of. We should allow them to solve their differences peacefully or go to war. Pakistan must not take EITHER SIDE, and remain totally neutral. [/B]No Arab/Persian forces have helped us in 1948-1965-1971. It was us who were fighting for them not them fighting for us. We all know what the odds are of any military assistance from Iran or Arabs in any future war with India, don't we? - They won't come to our help, when we need them the most. - Pakistan therefore needs to become neutral -we need not meddle in their affairs nor we allow them to meddle into ours.

agreed

4: Recognize Israel

If Kashmir = Palestine than why Arabs and Iranians and Turks are allowed to recognize India while Pakistan is not allowed to recognize Israel? - Why they are allowed to trade with India, but Pakistan is not allowed to trade with Israel? - Pakistan should recognize Israel in return for unrestricted access to American and European markets and preferential trade agreements - as well as Pakistan gets the NSG membership. It will equal out our relations with the Arabs and the Iranians vis a vis Kashmir and India, and will improve our international standing by presenting us as a mature nation.

maybe on the lines of turkey/Israel ties

5: Join SCO
Pakistan should join SCO at all costs - dim its role in the OIC. Focus on China, Russia, C.Asia and India for trade and making the most of our geographic importance.

totally agreed

6: Build and maintain a Military muscle

If we adopt the above policy we need to build a potent conventional military muscle, big enough to provide impeccable national defense - to flush out the terrorist outfits - and small enough that cant be used in attacking any other nation in the world. Pakistan military should ONLY be used to defend Pakistanis

.

I would rather support a strong defense both in term of defensive as well as offensive capabilities, its not an idle world & we cant afford to be Cinderella

7: Apologise to Bangladesh

We need to apologise to Bangladesh for our brutality inflicted upon them in 1971 - in return for free trade agreements and normalization of the bilateral ties.

agreed

8: Non intervention in the Muslim world

When was the last time you saw Turks, Indonesians and Malaysians intervening in other countries to 'protect Muslims' ? - NEVER. We need to do the same, we need to learn to ignore what happens in the Muslim world, so we can focus on ourselves. It should not be an issue to us, 9: Become business minded

agreed

Every F.policy favor we render to ANYONE - has to be in return for business favors returned to us. Once we build our economy, we send our kids to schools and universities - than we can think about other goals.
10: Pacifist Pakistan
Pakistan should give up its alliance with the US, normalize its ties with the US as a non aligned nation, bolster ties with China,Russia, India , Brazil and EU. A Pakistan that is indifferent to the security climate in other nations as long as its not us. We should never wage war on other nations-nor become partisans in one.

agreed

By doing this, we can reinvent our position in the world as a self centric country that is pro business - pro trade and anti conflict.

be pro trade but at the same time be fully prepared in case of any conflict both are equally important
---------------------------------------------------------------

Have your say.

did

Peace.

Peace

 

[A-Team]

Well written article!

Hope the Pakistani establishment finally wakes up to the new realities and listen to these sane voices.

 

[Kompromat]

@Zarvan

Oh' Bhai- Do you want,Pakistan to bleed to death?

We have barely survived a total collapse. Its time for us to lick our wounds, heal this country and work for 'Pakistanis ONLY'. For us its 'survival time', we either adapt or die!


Lets give Afghanistans hand in marriage to Bhaarat. Let them see the real bania for themselves. They want to learn the hard way, we shouldn't stop them.

It will be a perfect relationship, where an Afghan who NEVER 'gives loyalty' - and a Bania who 'Doesn't believe in loyalty nor friendship' , will be left without the excuse of 'Pakistani subversion' and would have to make it work.

It will be a show worth watching, 'without the flak' being directed at 'us'.

Lastly, Afghanistan won't do jack for Pakistan if India invades us. They might just join them to try to get rid of us for good. Afghanistan is a lost cause. We would be much better off without an untrustworthy friend.

Dunia tay jo kam na away, aukhay saukhay velay

Us bay faizy sangi koloon,behtar yaar akelay.

Hazrat Waris Shah.