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Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

not a matter of roothna - its a matter of life and death!
in any case my friend TK has elaborated on the numbers issue quite aptly!

Thank you sir ..... it would be most boring to wait till spring to engage you again, and I mean it in the nicest most respectful way. :)

Our friend Taimi has elaborated sir .... without actual numbers. :cheers:

Cheers, Doc
 
P.S. How does one attach jpg photos from the comp directly to a post?

Cheers, Doc
 
Our friend Taimi has elaborated sir .... without actual numbers. :cheers:

If the all powerful PA and its intelligence agencies can't come up with an accurate figure, how can I get them from such far away.

Plus, i still haven't understood your point of view about the number thing that what are you trying to infer from it. Do you mean to say PA is lying by quoting those numbers of total militants and the number killed, are they exaggerating or don't know what else you wish to infer.
 
Taimi bhai,

1) You are not far away .... in fact your regular updates (with numbers :)) show that you are exceptionally well informed

2) It is not my inference ..... it is what many people are already saying .... and the concern is evident. Have referred to it in an earlier post as well.

PA has only covered or neutralized a tip of the iceberg ..... in terms of Taliban fighters.

Not hideouts. Not weapons caches. Not ammunition. Not food reserves.

Live (or wounded or dead) Taliban.

Numbers such as 20,000 hardcore veteran Taliban were being thrown about ..... on this very thread.

How many of these have been taken out.

Where have the rest gone.

Wherever they have gone, regardless of the advances and progress made by your PA, arent those that have slipped through not a concern?

That is what I am trying to get at. Would appreciate your comments.

Cheers, Doc
 
Taimi bhai,

1) You are not far away .... in fact your regular updates (with numbers :)) show that you are exceptionally well informed

2) It is not my inference ..... it is what many people are already saying .... and the concern is evident. Have referred to it in an earlier post as well.

PA has only covered or neutralized a tip of the iceberg ..... in terms of Taliban fighters.

Not hideouts. Not weapons caches. Not ammunition. Not food reserves.

Live (or wounded or dead) Taliban.

Numbers such as 20,000 hardcore veteran Taliban were being thrown about ..... on this very thread.

How many of these have been taken out.

Where have the rest gone.

Wherever they have gone, regardless of the advances and progress made by your PA, arent those that have slipped through not a concern?

That is what I am trying to get at. Would appreciate your comments.

Cheers, Doc

Thank U Sir for your nice comments, am flattered :D

Anyway, i don't know who gave the 20,000 figure, but i remember very well DG ISPR giving away an approx 10,000 figure on the higher side, the ones who may be there in the triangle where the operation has been launched. If we add the figure of other areas, it may well go up pretty high.

So in 10,000 figure, the composition is not known well enough, 1000+ roughly are said to be the uzbeks, chechans etc. So the number of local militant again comes down, now in that figure as i said before the hardcore & non-hardcore elements are difficult to identify. Taking the example of Swat, the figure of 5,000 used to be quoted in which the hardcore fanatics were expected to be around 1500-2000, rest were the ones recruited forcibly, the criminal elements and the ones who joined for the thrill of it out of may be poverty as pretty good amount of money was being given to the foot soldiers. So when the offensive started, majority ran away and the hardcore one gave a fight and the left ones are being hunted down.

Coming back to SW, agree that its just the tip of the iceberg, things have just started now, its not the end. As said before the militants were ready for the offensive but after seeing their major places being captured with unusual tactics used by PA, they gave way and except for giving some hard fight in few places, they ran away in majority of places leaving behind a lot of weapons, the ones being shown in TV or in pics are not just that, much more then this is to be seen and yet found, as i said the militants were willing for a face to face fight so they did not shifted their hard earned weapons to safer places for the guerrilla fight as they now bark about, if they had that plan then believe me we would have not found such huge weapons rather just small weapons would have been found.

As for where they are, majority of them are still in the triangle where the fighting is taking place, as their major stronghold were being taken over by PA, they have moved to the places, villages where PA still has to come, if you get time do look at the area through google earth, you will find so many areas with few dozen of houses built and scattered through out the region. They have moved there either waiting for winter to start and hope PA doesn't comes and they try to get regroup and start their guerrilla war in the spring, some may have even left the region and gone to NW or other agencies nearby but if a large number had even moved out we should have seen something happening in their new area of refugee as they must have done something to help ease the pressure on their brothers left to face off with PA, but the lack of any major activity by them in any other area may suggest that they haven't left in huge numbers out of this area but are in that same area and waiting for either PA to move out and start the search & clearance operations which the recent news of fierce engagements happening do suggest. The operational area so far has clear line of communication with roads making reach of PA easily accessible, but real fight will be seen when PA moves out on foot using foot trails and reaching far flung villages and mountain regions where only by foot people can go. And the militants now know that if PA can take the fight to SW to their most safest strongholds where they had prepared for years to fight off PA, then PA can come to any other new place of their refuge too as they don't have much of area left to take refuge in.

And now for your most important part, in one of my recent discussions with someone, I asked the same question and i was told that intelligence guys believe that in the past few months since the siege began and in this phase of operation the rough figure of dead & wounded figure of militants combining all the causes comes to between 1000-1500, and their total numbers in recent months got reduced also due to some defections, group wise and individual wise.
 
Today's blast was the most deafening one i have heard up till now among all the blasts that i have heard in Peshawar & in other places. Rough estimates as per my source are that 600+ KG explosives were used, even a figure of 800KG is also in consideration. It was much much powerful then the one happened in PC Peshawar. It literally made my home shake even its 3KM away from the blast site. Below are two pictures that i took from my camera capturing the Mushroom cloud and the size of it can give you an idea about its intensity, the first picture was just couple of mins after the blast while the second one was about 10 mins or so forming into a normal layer of cloud as seen on any rainy day.

May Allah give peace to the passed away souls and courage to their families and protect All of us and Pakistan from this evil and give courage to PA & we the people of Pakistan fight & face this evil. :pakistan:


Picture# 1:
http://img12.imageshack.us/i/pa070143.jpg/ http://g.imageshack.us/img12/pa070143.jpg/1/


Picture# 2:
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/pa070146.jpg/ http://g.imageshack.us/img200/pa070146.jpg/1/

***********************************************************

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...istans-spy-agency-northwest-3.html#post547318
 
No 481/2009-ISPR Dated: November 13, 2009
Rawalpindi - November 13, 2009:


1. South Waziristan - Operation Rah-e-Nijat. In last 24 hours, 6 terrorists have been killed while 12 soldiers embraced shahadat and 2 soldiers were injured. Details of the operations are as follows:-

a. On Jandola – Sararogha Axis

(1) Security forces successfully secured important feature point 5376, 3 kms north of Ahmed Wam.

(2) Exchange of fire took place between security forces and terrorists at Ahmed Wam, resultantly 2 soldiers embraced shahadat and 2 were injured, while 6 terrorists were killed.

(3) Clearance operation at Khawasai is under process.

b. On Shakai – Kaniguram Axis.

(1) Security forces conducted search operation in area around Torwam, cleared compounds, and recovered cache of arms and ammunition.

(2) 10 wounded soldiers due to engagement with terrorists of Langar Khel yesterday succumbed to injuries and embraced shahadat. Total casualties are 15 soldiers shaheed. :angry: :pakistan:

c. On Razmak- Makeen Axis

(1) Security forces have fully secured the area from Makeen to Marobi Raghzai and road block has been established at Shah Wali Algad.

(2) Security forces cleared built up area of Rogha and Mir Khoni.

(3) Terrorists fired rockets at Razmak Camp and Laghr Manza, which was effectively responded by security forces.

2. Swat – Malakand – Operation Rah-e-Rast

a. Security forces apprehended wanted terrorist Qamar Ali at Shangla.

b. Security forces conducted search operation at Shalpin, Amankot, Ghalagai and apprehended 3 terrorists.

3. Relief Activities 10,946 Cash Cards have issued to displaced families of Waziristan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Today's blast was the most deafening one i have heard up till now among all the blasts that i have heard in Peshawar & in other places. Rough estimates as per my source are that 600+ KG explosives were used, even a figure of 800KG is also in consideration. It was much much powerful then the one happened in PC Peshawar. It literally made my home shake even its 3KM away from the blast site. Below are two pictures that i took from my camera capturing the Mushroom cloud and the size of it can give you an idea about its intensity, the first picture was just couple of mins after the blast while the second one was about 10 mins or so forming into a normal layer of cloud as seen on any rainy day.

May Allah give peace to the passed away souls and courage to their families and protect All of us and Pakistan from this evil and give courage to PA & we the people of Pakistan fight & face this evil. :pakistan:
Looks like they really wanted to destroy the entire complex. Glad the car was stopped at the checkpoint, or else the casualties would have been enormous.
 
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Taimi bhai,

1) You are not far away .... in fact your regular updates (with numbers :)) show that you are exceptionally well informed

2) It is not my inference ..... it is what many people are already saying .... and the concern is evident. Have referred to it in an earlier post as well.

PA has only covered or neutralized a tip of the iceberg ..... in terms of Taliban fighters.

Not hideouts. Not weapons caches. Not ammunition. Not food reserves.

Live (or wounded or dead) Taliban.

Numbers such as 20,000 hardcore veteran Taliban were being thrown about ..... on this very thread.

How many of these have been taken out.

Where have the rest gone.

Wherever they have gone, regardless of the advances and progress made by your PA, arent those that have slipped through not a concern?

That is what I am trying to get at. Would appreciate your comments.

Cheers, Doc

I think 20000 estimate was wrong or most of fighters left TTP and joined Mullah Omer.
 
Looks like they really wanted to destroy the entire complex. Glad the car was stopped at the checkpoint, or else the casualties would have been enormous.

Well they nearly succeeded in that Sir, if you have seen the pictures there is no building anymore, there used to be a huge perimeter wall and a three story building which is now nowhere to be seen. Many nearby houses have developed cracks, one of my relatives living there nearby said their whole house went up into the air and cracks have appeared all over the house, some houses even are now very risky to live in and families have shifted out. Problem was that the checkpoint is just opposite the gate and wall of the ISI complex, so the objective pretty much achieved but thanks to Allah it was not rush hour or even if it had happened 15 mins late, casualties would have been in hundreds. Disaster averted just by mins. Also ISI guys in the complex were less as no one had came to offices yet, i believe all the guys manning the checkpoint got martyred, heard one seriously injured as he was in the bunker but not confirmed.

A very Sad day, i wish no one ever has to hear the thunder of such huge blasts, its really terrifying.
 
^ I pray for the safety of your family taimi and the rest of peshawer and Pakistan.

Ameen bro, people of Peshawar have become mentally ill, depression and tension all the time, can't come out of home with ease of mind, those who come are not even 0.0001% sure that they will be back home safe. Same would be with other Pakistanis. May Allah protect us all and give courage and end this evil. Suma Ameen. :pakistan:
 
Well they nearly succeeded in that Sir, if you have seen the pictures there is no building anymore, there used to be a huge perimeter wall and a three story building which is now nowhere to be seen. Many nearby houses have developed cracks, one of my relatives living there nearby said their whole house went up into the air and cracks have appeared all over the house, some houses even are now very risky to live in and families have shifted out. Problem was that the checkpoint is just opposite the gate and wall of the ISI complex, so the objective pretty much achieved but thanks to Allah it was not rush hour or even if it had happened 15 mins late, casualties would have been in hundreds. Disaster averted just by mins. Also ISI guys in the complex were less as no one had came to offices yet, i believe all the guys manning the checkpoint got martyred, heard one seriously injured as he was in the bunker but not confirmed.

A very Sad day, i wish no one ever has to hear the thunder of such huge blasts, its really terrifying.

No I had not seen any of the images of the destroyed complex, just some of a building with a damaged facade.

The fact that the explosives managed to bring down an entire building despite being detonated at the security perimeter validates your observations about the quantity of explosives used.

As you said, the timing saved us from greater casualties inside the building as well as outside.

These cars are being loaded up with explosives somewhere, and it isn't South Waziristan anymore. Qari Hussain of the TTP did indicate they had plenty of trained suicide bombers, and these could be the various cells that were activated after the go ahead for the SW Ops, or it could be that AQ has shifted into the Peshawar suburbs and is operating out of various cells there, or a combination of both.

Outside of some parts of the Tribal belt, I cannot see very many regions with people that would actively turn a blind eye to these kinds of activities, so if these people are operating in the suburbs then we need to try some innovative ways to educate the masses and get them to cooperate and tip off the LEA's.

If these activities are still being organized in the Tribal belt, and we can rule out SW, then IMO the only other agency where AQ and the TTP can operate with the largest degree of freedom is North Waziristan ...
 
I'd like to ask a few questions here:

1. How is it that militants have accurate information about buildings being operated by our spy agencies?

2. How is it that militants have accurate information about different army personnel?

3. Are we compromised in anyway? I mean c'mon its like our spy network is totally not capable which I'm sure is not the case.
 
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