Operation Bluestar-What could have been done?

[Anubis]

Would you be kind enough to share your POV, how the loss of life could have been avoided? How army could have had killed Bhindranwale outside GURUHARMANDIR SAHIB?

The army had a lot of Sikh regular soldiers and special force soldiers.They could have sent an Assassin to take him out(Or,they could have paid someone from Akali Dal(who they could buy off to do it).They could have sniped him while he was in the open courtyard infront of the Harmandir Shahib.As far as I am informed(not much) Bhindranwale was not planning any immediate uprising or armed assault of a mass scale of any kind(his followers were killing enemy targets though).Why Indira Gandhi ordered a full scale military assault on them specially when there were a lot of pilgrims(more than usual) in the Harmandir Shahib,I do not understand!

 

[Bang Galore]

In hindsight, and I stress on hindsight, Operation Bluestar was planned & executed poorly. The Indian state acknowledges as much. A much better operation, Op. Black Thunder (1 & 2) was carried out barely a couple of years later(1986 -1 & 1988 -2) which destroyed the militant's image without damaging Sikh sentiments or any part of the temple complex.

 

[Anubis]

In hindsight, and I stress on hindsight, Operation Bluestar was planned & executed poorly. The Indian state acknowledges as much. A much better operation, Op. Black Thunder (1 & 2) was carried out barely a couple of years later(1986 -1 & 1988 -2) which destroyed the militant's image without damaging Sikh sentiments or any part of the temple complex.

The reason why I posted the thread was to find out IF you were in charge of the state or military what would you do?How would you carry it out?Say a similar situation where a terrorist is hiding in a holy place with lots of innocent people in it.You are in charge.Now what do you do?

 

[Bang Galore]

The reason why I posted the thread was to find out IF you were in charge of the state or military what would you do?How would you carry it out?Say a similar situation where a terrorist is hiding in a holy place with lots of innocent people in it.You are in charge.Now what do you do?

Do exactly what was done in Op. Black Thunder 2. Copybook execution. Btw, snipers were used extensively in that operation.

Having said that every situation is different and level of opposition will decide the level of response.

 

[Parul]

The army had a lot of Sikh regular soldiers and special force soldiers.They could have sent an Assassin to takye him out(Or,they could have paid someone from Akali Dal(who they could buy off to do it).They could have sniped him while he was in the open courtyard infront of the Harmandir Shahib.As far as I am informed(not much) Bhindranwale was not planning any immediate uprising or armed assault of a mass scale of any kind(his followers were killing enemy targets though).Why Indira Gandhi ordered a full scale military assault on them specially when there were a lot of pilgrims(more than usual) in the Harmandir Shahib,I do not understand!

INDIAN Army still has many Regular Sikh Soldiers. Our Current Army Chief is Sikh.

Do you even know against whom Bindrawala took SHELTER?

DO YOU KNOW WHETHER INDIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE BINDRAWALA ENOUGH CHANCE TO SURRENDER OR NOT?


According to you Bhindranwal was ROAMING IN HARMANDIR SAHIB and Army could have killed him while he was ROAMING? HAVE YOU BEEN TO GURUHARMANDIR SAHIB, IF YES ; then you would not have said such a stupid thing . GO TO Google.com and read about Harmandir Shahib. It will help your Ignorance.

What is your source that proves he was not planning any immediate uprising or armed assault of mass scale?

India is a Democratic Country, government has right to do anything to maintain peace and intervene in any place. As I said he had made GURUHARMANDIR SAHIB a Fortress and Had killed Several Innocent HINDUS AND was committing SINS. That is one of the Reasons Indira Gandhi ordered Operation Bluestar.

Go and do a deep search, read more about the Subject. You'll come to know why Indira Gandhi did it.

The reason why I posted the thread was to find out IF you were in charge of the state or military what would you do?How would you carry it out?Say a similar situation where a terrorist is hiding in a holy place with lots of innocent people in it.You are in charge.Now what do you do?

You can also Start a Thread on Lal Masjid Operation, and can get POV of Pakistanis on it

 

[Anubis]

INDIAN Army still has many Regular Sikh Soldiers. Our Current Army Chief is Sikh.

Do you even know against whom Bindrawala took SHELTER?

DO YOU KNOW WHETHER INDIAN GOVERNMENT GAVE BINDRAWALA ENOUGH CHANCE TO SURRENDER OR NOT?


According to you Bhindranwal was ROAMING IN HARMANDIR SAHIB and Army could have killed him while he was ROAMING? HAVE YOU BEEN TO GURUHARMANDIR SAHIB, IF YES ; then you would not have said such a stupid thing . GO TO Google.com and read about Harmandir Shahib. It will help your Ignorance.

What is your source that proves he was not planning any immediate uprising or armed assault of mass scale?

India is a Democratic Country, government has right to fo anything to maintain peace and intervene in any place. As I said he had made GURUHARMANDIR SAHIB a Fortress and Had killed Several Innocent HINDUS AND was committing SINS. That is one of the Reasons Indira Gandhi ordered Operation Bluestar.

Go and do a deep search, read more about the Subject. You'll come to know why Indira Gandhi did it.



You can also Start a Thread on Lal Masjid Operation, and can get POV of Pakistanis on it

So you are saying is the situation was unavoidable?

 

[Aka123]

I think.... in the operation the army was lead by Major General Kuldeep Singh Brar and Lt. General Ranjit Singh Dyal and I guess they were Sardars.

 

[Anubis]

I think.... in the operation the army was lead by Major General Kuldeep Singh Brar and Lt. General Ranjit Singh Dyal and I guess they were Sardars.

Yep.......before the operation they asked the Sikh soldiers if they wanted to opt out of it?None of them did.I think one of the Sikh soldiers said he wanted to enter the temple first in line!

 

[Bang Galore]

So you are saying is the situation was unavoidable?

All situations are avoidable but really no point in trying to go back there except to learn from the mistakes. It could easily be asked what if Indira Gandhi had not refused the advice to remove the Sikh bodyguards. She didn't, opposed the suggestion, thought it would show her trust in them and eventually paid a price for her decision.

 

[Aka123]

So you are saying is the situation was unavoidable?

U can check the BBC documentary I have shared. The Army General shares some reasons why the operation was done during odd hours. U may get some of your answers.
Though I personally feel the army could have planned out some other tactics to avoid civilian deaths. But since I am not aware, what the situation was then, won't be able to comment much.

Sir 1 more request, this is a very sensitive topic for Indians. So discussing this on PDF is not that sensible as it has a high chance of getting changed into a flame thread!! Thanks!

 

[Aka123]

Yep.......before the operation they asked the Sikh soldiers if they wanted to opt out of it?None of them did.I think one of the Sikh soldiers said he wanted to enter the temple first in line!

Ok, I was not aware of that!!

 

[Parul]

So you are saying is the situation was unavoidable?

@Bang Galore has sum it well. I suggest you to read about Khalistan and Operation Bluestar through various sources, you can easily find them on Google.

 

[agamdilawari]

The army had a lot of Sikh regular soldiers and special force soldiers.They could have sent an Assassin to take him out(Or,they could have paid someone from Akali Dal(who they could buy off to do it).They could have sniped him while he was in the open courtyard infront of the Harmandir Shahib.As far as I am informed(not much) Bhindranwale was not planning any immediate uprising or armed assault of a mass scale of any kind(his followers were killing enemy targets though).Why Indira Gandhi ordered a full scale military assault on them specially when there were a lot of pilgrims(more than usual) in the Harmandir Shahib,I do not understand!

If Operation Bluestar has to explained in a line, it has to be " Noble intention, poor execution". Bhindrawale group was very well supported and supplied. 1971 War hero (man responsible for training of Mukhti Bahini thus a gr8 strategist for guerrilla warfare) Rtd Major General Shabeg Singh was the guy responsible why Bhindrawale group was so well trained and able to combat and hold on army's assault for that long. Initially there were no plans to use tanks but when Army's causalities began to rise as soldiers were clearly instructed not to fire at the Holy Shrine of Harmandir Sahab itself then army thought of no other alternative. Operation Black Thunder was a considerable success bcz mistake from Bluestar were learnt and its consequences were for everyone to see.

I think.... in the operation the army was lead by Major General Kuldeep Singh Brar and Lt. General Ranjit Singh Dyal and I guess they were Sardars.

Very true buddy and the operation itself involved many Sikh soldiers just like any other army operation would have. This was needed to be done(the operation that is), however the planning could be questioned but never the very intention of it.

 

[bornmoron]

There are already few threads with same topic been discussed,why then again n again threads on same topic ,,
This incident pains every Indian,,Our neighbours wont understand ,,I noticed most of the thread on this topic is started my neighbors,,Just to scrub the wound .

 

[Anubis]

There are already few threads with same topic been discussed,why then again n again threads on same topic ,,
This incident pains every Indian,,Our neighbours wont understand ,,I noticed most of the thread on this topic is started my neighbors,,Just to scrub the wound .

I checked those threads and both of them were created with the intention to cause a flame war.Thats why I put the disclaimer on top of my post!