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Open Debate | Do Bangladeshis regard India as a 'savior' ?

Do Bangladeshis today regard India as a 'savior' in the backdrop of 1971 war ?


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Why is it 180 degree contradiction!!! Savior is not appropriate because they didn't do it as charity. Who will do such as charity! But we needed help, they helped that time

Their help only acted as a catalyst for the war.

The separation of East Pakistan was inevitable since the Pakistanis were pretty much cut off from their supplies. And when supplies run dry, they wouldn't have been able to fight.
 
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Their help only acted as a catalyst for the war.

The separation of East Pakistan was inevitable since the Pakistanis were pretty much cut off from their supplies. And when supplies run dry, they wouldn't have been able to fight.

Inevitable yes, but that would have taken a long time. Pakistanis were cut off their supplies and reinforcements because of India (and USSR). US was hell bent on supporting Pakistan and even Srilanka allowed refuelling of Pakistani jets.
 
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Inevitable yes, but that would have been taken a long time. Pakistanis were cut off their supplies and reinforcements because of India (and USSR). US was hell bent on supporting Pakistan and even Srilanka allowed refuelling of Pakistani jets.

You are merely repeating what I said. Why even bother quoting? Proving what?

Bangladesh was born because of the will of the people of what was known as East Pakistan. Not merely out of Indian military intervention.

Ye might as well get that into that into your heads for starters.
 
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You are merely repeating what I said. Why even bother quoting? Proving what?

Bangladesh was born because of the will of the people of what was known as East Pakistan. Not merely out of Indian military intervention.

Ye might as well get that into that into your heads for starters.

Do I have to elaborate? That Bangladesh would have suffered heavy heavy toll if not for India. So India did something a savior would do in these circumstances, irrespective of it had personal gains or not.

And where did I insinuate that BD was born only because of Indian intervention? I am very well aware of the sacrifices made by its people. I have that in my head already, thank you very much! No need for you to get all shitty.
 
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Do I have to elaborate? That Bangladesh would have suffered heavy heavy toll if not for India. So India did something a savior would do in these circumstances, irrespective of it had personal gains or not.

Oh please....humanity is overrated.

No need for you to get all shitty.

I didn't. Your folks just did. If you were confident as you say, you wouldn't have had done so in the first place.
 
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Oh please....humanity is overrated.

I see. Let me keep it, for records.

I didn't. Your folks just did. If you were confident as you say, you wouldn't have had done so in the first place.

So you are presuming something I didnt say based on something I wrote "confidently" in a post?

Psychology is way too overrated.
 
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Their help only acted as a catalyst for the war.

The separation of East Pakistan was inevitable since the Pakistanis were pretty much cut off from their supplies. And when supplies run dry, they wouldn't have been able to fight.

There is a reason why 91K pakistanis surrender to Indian forces not to mukhti vahini.

Also there is a reason why BD could get liberated even when the super power America was hell bent to prevent the bisection of pakistan.

Its easy to be ungrateful.
 
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@Loki

The history of proxy warfare between India and Pakistan goes back to the Kashmir invasion and it will remain that way. We are a small state, if we don't keep them in check, it would mean giving in to their hegemonic control that they so crave to have.

Well, how often do you see Bangladeshis participating in Kashmir threads? Almost never.

But what we can say is that if you guys really wanted Kashmir so badly, you should have just obliterated New Delhi when you had the chance. Your air force had the edge over them for starters.

*sigh* I do feel sorry for those beautiful B-57 bombers. Just rusted away by not realizing their full potential to destroy and terrorize.

Mass civilian casualties are inconsequential. They'll just make more love out of one's sorrows and increase the population ten-fold. Just like Israel's bombing of Lebanon and Saddam's campaign against the Kurds. Only if Saddam didn't foolishly invade Kuwait, nobody would have bothered with the Kurds.

But you, for some mysterious reasons didn't bomb them where it'd hurt them. Perhaps even send them into oblivion.

The point being is to cut the head of the snake before it grows larger. When one takes out the control, everything will naturally fall apart in a state of being out of control. It's these kind of things that I never understood about you guys.

Back in the day, Dhaka University was prestigious. Something over which Indians can never compare themselves to in the past. And now look at them. And look at Dhaka University, ruled by a bunch of crazies out to smash and burn (i.e. present Bangladeshi-style student politics).

What happened was that the Indians had the upper hand in information warfare. It was that aspect that convinced them to intervene and break Pakistan into two.

That implies that the WP leaders hardly took the security of EP seriously, despite the proxy war in NE India. A view of extreme indifference and apathy toward Bengalis in general.

While Sri Lanka and Pakistan has stood against the Indian desire for control of S.Asia, it has become vital for Bangladesh as a major nation in S.Asia to do the same. If they decide to do that Pakistanis even today are more likely to stand with you than with an Indian.

Our nuclear deterrent has reduced India's chances of becoming the hegemonic Hindutva empire it desires to become. Pakistan and China are like a 'geographic lock' around India's neck, because it can expand no longer without coming into conflict with either of these states, it cannot fight them either, so it feels frustrated as its elite beats a horse that cant run no longer without getting speared into.

Its your opportunity to turn Bangladesh into a free nation by sweeping it off Indian influence. Traitors who are more patriotic to India than your nation need to be weeded out and mercilessly butchered so you can have a new beginning, for your own sake not ours or anyone else's.

As far as Pakistanis are concerned, we believe that Bangladesh being an Islamic nation is still closer to us than India and it always will be. If we work out our differences - there are three Muslim states that encircle India, we can trap the elephant into a hole, it can't get out of !

Well, butchering them would make them martyrs, would it not? I'd rather give them the pleasure of utter humiliation.

Anyhow, politics is only part of the problem. The environment of trust in pretty much every aspect of Bangladeshi society had deteriorated over the decades. And when there's mistrust, there's volatility.

I recall a son of a wealthy businessman here that Bangladeshi business people were voting for parties so that they can make more money, not how to empower Bangladeshi society as a whole. Money, money money, it's all they care about without any principle, or thought. Let alone ideas.

One can even buy space superiority fighters, but when there's mistrust among oneself, then how can one move the nation forward? And counter Indian bullying?

Islamic nation, secular, whatever, what matters to me in my view is sustainability. And from what most Bangladeshis can see, the AL is not making it more sustainable. The Sheikh family are dreaming about living the days of the Mujib-era. Control over media, family politics (it never goes anywhere), violent suppression of political opponents and failed socialist ideals are some of their characteristics.

I mean, if the Sheikhs are so confident about their party winning the election, why are they so frightened of a non-party caretaker government to hold elections in the first place? Bangladesh is still a young democracy, and that'll take a lot of time to mature. The CTG model is one of the means to achieve that.

How does India fit in? Most of their tactics are subversive. Quietly backing the ruling Awami League. The US ambassador's recent visit to New Delhi provided an interesting insight into that one. Frankly, I don't understand what their problem with Bangladesh is.

Jamaat e Islami is too small of a party to make any major impact in the politics of Bangladesh. So let alone the world.

One might say, that it was to root out NE rebels hiding in Bangladesh, but does that justify going this far? Yet, there's still outbreaks of violence in NE India. Not to mention that India shares the largest border with Bangladesh, and not Pakistan or China. A very critical factor that many forget. I mean, if an advanced nation like the United States couldn't fully guard the Mexican border, then how can countries like India and Bangladesh? It's truly fail logic. And one that isn't feasible. That is, India and Bangladesh patrolling every aspect of the border regions against Indian rebels. And frankly, the problems in NE India are none other than from NE Indians. And not from Bangladeshis, Pakistanis or Chinese.

But given that Hasina thinks she can fool the Bangladeshi general public with her poorly constructed lies, her and her pathetic party's end is inevitable. It's only a matter of time.

We are not interested in militarily countering India after those dalals are rooted out. However, should they threaten us in anyway thereafter, we shall see. There'd go India's image as a hero against evil China and her ilks :lol:
 
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Its easy to be ungrateful.

Okay, be "grateful" and then what? Share a lollipop? Sorry, but this is my lollipop. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Go lick the one you own.

By the way, you people still didn't answer my question as to how any self-respecting Indian would be in a Pakistani forum. What makes you so special that Bangladeshis or any other nationality for that matter?
 
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That's silly. All that matters that you can get those weapons, not from where.

I did also say "economically weak".

India cannot become "powerful" since it is not able to run a stable economy.

India will forever be handicapped by having to manage so many different ethnicities, whereas BD does
not have this problem. In all probability, the BD economy should grow quicker than India for the next few decades
by 1-2 percentage points a year.






That is about as stupid an argument that can be made.. In military terms what matters is total strength of the economy not per capita. Otherwise Taiwan, Japan & Singapore would be superior to China.

The more pertinent question is why was China able to grow at 10% a year for last 3 decades and India can only manage 6-7%?

Simply India is not governed efficiently - my theory is that it is a mish-mash of different ethnicities and there is
no real "common-good" that all Indians can agree on.


You seem to labouring under the impression that Indian economy will remain at a standstill while BD supposedly improves its. That won't be the case. India will be able to have much resources & even a small portion of it will be much bigger than anything BD can hope toput up.


Indian military is about as powerful as it will get relative to BD

BD, on the other hand, is now in a position that it can spend sufficient resources that it can be much more
than a push-over for India


Let me use statistics to illustrate this point:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2003&ey=2013&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&pr1.x=34&pr1.y=9&c=513,534&s=NGDPD,GGX_NGDP&grp=0&a=

In 2003, BD had an economy of 55 billion dollars and total government spending was 14% of GDP. That means that
that the BD government spent 7.7 billion dollars in 2003
In 2013, BD had an economy of 140 billion dollars, actually it is really over 150 billion dollars when the 2005 base
year is taken into account, and total government spending is set to be 17% of GDP. That means that
the BD government should spent 24 billion dollars

You see, in a decade BD government spending has gone up by 200% or tripled.

In 2003, India had an economy of 620 billion dollars and total government spending was 29% of GDP. That means that that the Indian government spent 176 billion dollars in 2003
In 2013, India had an economy of 1760 billion dollars, and total government spending is set to be 28% of GDP. That means that that the Indian government should spent 448 billion dollars

You see, in a decade Indian government spending has gone up by 154%

So BD government has 200% more to spend and the Indian government has only 154% more to spend from 10 years ago. Even keeping the same proportion of government spending on defence, BD will gain relatively more than
India.

BD still is spending maybe 1/3rd less of it's GDP on defence as India does and so the scope is there for BD to rachet up military spending in the future more than India.
 
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LOL you are still harping on your 4 decades behind nonsense?! (btw now it became 4 decades or is it just that you have forgotten your math?)

And no ( am stating this again), when you are talking about per capita, PPP paints a more realistic picture. And according to IMF estimates BD would not even surpass Pakistan in 2018

No, you did not understand the point I was trying to make.

Due to BD's weak economy and hence weak military, India has had 4 decades of not being able to worry about BD.

Now that BD has had 4 decades since independence and it has pretty much made up for lost time, it is now in
a position to modernise it's military.

And the fact is that India and Pakistan both had a 24 year head start over BD, hence why even now they are slight ahead but hopefully not for too much longer.

Lastly, PPP is not the best measure of military strength as most weapons and fuel need to be paid for in hard currency. It does help but not as much as you think,
 
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Okay, be "grateful" and then what? Share a lollipop? Sorry, but this is my lollipop. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

The question for the thread is "Do BD consider India as savior in context of 1971". If you are grateful, it answers the question raised. You people are opining on the basis of your perception about India in "todays" condition, that's least helping the cause of fair polling.

Go lick the one you own.

You may lick your lollipop or whatever you find lick-able. And what is this retard comment --- lollipop, licking, next what? Shoving?

By the way, you people still didn't answer my question as to how any self-respecting Indian would be in a Pakistani forum. What makes you so special that Bangladeshis or any other nationality for that matter?

The "owner" of this forum has repeatedly said this is an international forum with pakistani content. Cant you comprehend that?

We are here because we are interested in defence. Where can we find more defence enthusiasts then a war/terrorism ridden country and that too happen to be hostile one?

Got 2 cent or just 1?
 
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Iam quite sad to see that Bangladeshi mates don't even acknowledge how Indians helped them. :disagree:
 
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No, you did not understand the point I was trying to make.

Due to BD's weak economy and hence weak military, India has had 4 decades of not being able to worry about BD.

Now that BD has had 4 decades since independence and it has pretty much made up for lost time, it is now in
a position to modernise it's military.

And the fact is that India and Pakistan both had a 24 year head start over BD, hence why even now they are slight ahead but hopefully not for too much longer.

Lastly, PPP is not the best measure of military strength as most weapons and fuel need to be paid for in hard currency. It does help but not as much as you think,

Sigh.

Who was using PPP to measure military strength? Please go back and take a look at the post once more.
 
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