One eye on China, India opens up to Japan, Korea

[twocents]

Regarding Nehru turning down an US offer to be a permanent member of the Security Council, is there any official UN or US documentation for it? That is certainly news to me. All I am aware of is that the San Francisco Conference decided on the creation of the UN and the makeup of the Security council.

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

It is a major concession considering that Dalai Lama is based in India. Same thing with Taiwan. I'm surprised that China can't see that.

Let me put it this way, what has China done to improve its relationship with India and adressing its core concerns?

I never said India did this out of kindness, but it does deserve reciprocity.

Do you think China is "helping" Pakistan because they love Pakistan?

Just like US used Pakistan for its own interests so is China. Nothing wrong with it, unfortunately Pakistani people --talented thought they are-- suffer from weak and shortdighted leadership and that makes them vulnerable to being used by anyone.

there is more to this china and pakistan nexus thats meet the eye we r not just traditional friends if chian is the body we r the blood with out the one the other wouldnt survive china needs pakistan for oil and energy needs pakistan need china for stability china sees us as a detterent and pakistan sees china as a reliable partner and the feelings are not one sided but reciprocal . some thing u wont or could never comprehend u know why because of ur mentality indians r clever and opportunist and there fore sees the world in this light really there is nothing wrong with it

 

[huzihaidao12]

It is a major concession considering that Dalai Lama is based in India. Same thing with Taiwan. I'm surprised that China can't see that.

Let me put it this way, what has China done to improve its relationship with India and adressing its core concerns?

I never said India did this out of kindness, but it does deserve reciprocity.

Do you think China is "helping" Pakistan because they love Pakistan?

Just like US used Pakistan for its own interests so is China. Nothing wrong with it, unfortunately Pakistani people --talented thought they are-- suffer from weak and shortdighted leadership and that makes them vulnerable to being used by anyone.

Sikkim you can see it? As for Taiwan, we never forced India, you are free to choose Taiwan or mainland China, freedom of choice.

 

[oceanx]

It is a major concession considering that Dalai Lama is based in India. Same thing with Taiwan. I'm surprised that China can't see that.

I was going into lurking mode for a while ... but you are a bright dude and I enjoy your opinions on a range of issues.

DL was "based in India" the same way Abdullah Öcalan was based in Syria ... until around 1998. On that we'll say no more because I am fundamentally favourably predisposed toward "his holiness" ...

Rest assured that he was "in India" because the CCP upper echelon allowed him and his retinue to go there essentially out in the open ... granted, not entirely out of altruism. But Mao was "blasted" by Stalin for not machine-gunning the whole lot when he had the chance ...

But that's another topic.

So India "recognized" Tibet as a favour to herself as much as Syria booted out Öcalan as a favour to themselves. This is not to deny the historical connection Hindustan had with historical Tibet.

On Taiwan - where is India's dog in this race? Or do you want to put a dog in this race? By all means be our guest!

I will not say much about Taiwan because the current crop of flag bearers around here generally accept Taiwan's right to remain indefinitely autonomous. I personally prefer Taiwanese independence. But I am an "extremist" as you know ...

Let me put it this way, what has China done to improve its relationship with India and adressing its core concerns?

. Your core concerns, above and beyond economic health and internal dynamics that affect every state, is your relationship with Pakistan.

Even your so-called relationships with the superpowers of our day (US/Russia/EU) comes secondary.

Your relationship with the PRC is tertiary.

And the core concern with Pakistan rests in Kashmir.

This you know better than any, so why trolling on China?

Will China object if India proposes joint administration with Pakistan on the "Valley"?

Be a leader, not a follower.

Do you think China is "helping" Pakistan because they love Pakistan?

Just like US used Pakistan for its own interests so is China. Nothing wrong with it, unfortunately Pakistani people --talented thought they are-- suffer from weak and shortdighted leadership and that makes them vulnerable to being used by anyone.

Ms. Turner asks you: "what is luuve"? Between countries no one asks for love but assistance, kindness and mutual respect that grows out of arranged marriages from circumstances - or Muta' if you will.

Solve Kashmir and you and your neighbour to the West would enjoy more "love" than you can get from anybody else's Muta' ...

PRC used to blame everyone but itself (still does that from time to time, such as in the case of Taiwan). But you don't have to do that.

 

[indianpatriot]

This is Justin Joseph Déjà vu all over again.



WOW talk about journalistic integrity. This has already been proven to be complete BS. India was never ever offered a SC seat.

well its a highly debated thing that Societ Russia forced India to let China get the seat in SC even though economically and India was marginally larger and prosperous than China at that time!!!

 

[CardSharp]

Good first post returning from creepy lurk mode. Welcome back.

 

[CardSharp]

well its a highly debated thing that Societ Russia forced India to let China get the seat in SC even though economically and India was marginally larger and prosperous than China at that time!!!

Really I've never ever read anyone outside India who wrote about this. I usually like third party input on contentious issues like this.

Also if Russia forced India to refuse the seat, how is this kindness done for China?

 

[Tractor]

I personally prefer Taiwanese independence.

Yes,I prefer too.
Chinese people should all prefer,too simple.

 

[oceanx]

Don't mean no offense to nobody with "Muta'" ...

 

[EjazR]

I will still insist that recognising Tibet as part of China was a major concession. you must remember that India did this in the 50s when China did not attack India, and then spent decades suffering under the Cultural revolution and great leap forward. Infact until the 80s, Indian percapita income was higher than China.

India could still have needled China particularly because Buddhism was born in India and Tibet has had close cultural ties to India. The early India was led by a socialist leadership that saw itself close to if not alligned to communist China and USSR.

India had come out of colonisation of the west and wanted to get as much goodwill as possible from its neighbours and took up many anti-west stands particularly against colonisation in the early years.

. Your core concerns, above and beyond economic health and internal dynamics that affect every state, is your relationship with Pakistan.

Even your so-called relationships with the superpowers of our day (US/Russia/EU) comes secondary.

Your relationship with the PRC is tertiary.

And the core concern with Pakistan rests in Kashmir.

This you know better than any, so why trolling on China?

Will China object if India proposes joint administration with Pakistan on the "Valley"?

Be a leader, not a follower.

You do know that the disputed territory is also under Chinese control and makes it direct party to the conflict. And that Gilgit Baltistan in Pakistan is also part of it where Chinese troops and construction is illegally taking place. Will China and Pakistan agree or object for joint control with India of these regions? Give me your honest assesment here. You can't expect GoI to be the only one that keeps comprimising on every issue.


Lets look at another aspect, Kashmiris from India are getting staples visas because it is disputed. Why were no stabled visas issued before 2008?And also why are not residents from Gilgit Baltistan or Pakistani Kashmir issued stapled visas? After all China is trying to follow international obligations. Any answers for that?

And it is well known that till 2009, Gilgit baltistan was basically treated as a colony of Pakistan with no democratic setup and usually governed by a Pakistani general. Will China now deny visas to them who are actually running day to day affairs of Gilgit since its disputed territory? Even the current CM of Giglti is a retd. Maj. Gen.

I am trying to understand if Chinese officials here are just plain ignorant here maybe

Ms. Turner asks you: "what is luuve"? Between countries no one asks for love but assistance, kindness and mutual respect that grows out of arranged marriages from circumstances - or Muta' if you will.

Solve Kashmir and you and your neighbour to the West would enjoy more "love" than you can get from anybody else's Muta' ...

PRC used to blame everyone but itself (still does that from time to time, such as in the case of Taiwan). But you don't have to do that.

GoI has consistently tried to solve Kashmir since the problem started. You seem to be ill informed of the history. The most direct resolution that was signed by Pakistan after 1971 was to accept the LoC as IB. However, after 20 years of the agreement Pakistan reneged suddenly by sending Jihadis across the border int he early 90s.

Still GoI tried to solve it again in the late 90s only to get backstabbed by the PA in Kargil. Later in 2008, there was agreement for a four point resolution of the issue that also included some sort of joint management and then alleged ISI sponsored extermists did the Mumbai attacks.

--------------

Anyways, the point is not that. Just not issuing visas to invited military officials or stapled visas will not encourage India or even pressure India to solve the dispute. So I don't see the benefit of these needling tactics unless China does not see the need of freindly relations with India.

If there is some benefit of these visa tactics, please do enlighten me on how it will help in resolving the dispute.

 

[indianpatriot]

Really I've never ever read anyone outside India who wrote about this. I usually like third party input on contentious issues like this.

Also if Russia forced India to refuse the seat, how is this kindness done for China?

well i am not a supporter of this theory its just one of the dark secrets of human societies!!

 

[Tractor]

I will still insist that recognising Tibet as part of China was a major concession.

Sure,at least Kailas should belong to India.

 

[CardSharp]

You probably don't know this but among the Indian people there enormous good will for China or atleast has been historically. Unlike Pakistan were the leftists movements were all killed off systematically, India has a strong leftist movement that is Pro-China and who were even part of the ruling coalition government in the previous regime.

With needless tactics like stapling visas and non-issue of visas,China is just shooting itself in the foot rather than capitalising on the good will it could have generated with them.

Nothing about "poor us" but just some awareness about the issue.

Can someone for the love of God explain to me how this isn't another iteration of "we were so friendly to you and you hurt our feelings"?


Or as in my original words


"we are such well-intentioned babes in the woods, if only the mean old world would treat us better"

 

[EjazR]

^^^^^
I don't understand what you are trying to do. What is the point you are trying to make?

I made some points clearly which you highlighted in red and green. You can insinuated all you want but the basic premise remains.

Does China want to have a progressive and engaging relationship with India or not given that Chinese offcials are using these unncessary needling tactics? What purpose does the stapled visa e.t.c actually achive? Can you give a logical answer to that?

 

[CardSharp]

Chinese insularity v Indian insecurity: a recipe for trouble – Telegraph Blogs

Both parties are at fault

and if you can't understand the point I'm trying to make, there's not much I can do.