One eye on China, India opens up to Japan, Korea

[oceanx]

@oceanx

I am not following you here. Just three points

1. It was you who raised the joint administration point. And I said that why joint adminstration of the Indian part of J&K alone. Why not the entire historical state of J&K since the entire territory is disputed. Its unfeasible but I just wanted to highlight that point to you. This is not Enlargment of the conflict. This is the conflicted territory as per UN resolutions.

2. Gilgit Baltistan is a part of historical J&K and hence part of the disputed terriroty. Hence a resolution would involve a resolution of this as well. PLA troops are there to help out flood victims and all but that was not what I was talking about

3. There are protest in Xinjiang/East Turkistan,Tibet as well. There are protests in other parts of India as well. There have been five full fledged insurgencies in Balochistan Pakistan demanding independance. If media coverage was to define which territory belongs to who, then we would have changing borders all the time.
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Now let me say that India-China relationship are not in a freefall or anything. But the point I am raising is what does China get in these visa tactics. You yourself have expressed scepticism, so you can understand how unnecessary and provacative it would look to Indian officials.

That is the main issue here. Resolution of J&K is a bilateral matter between India and Pakistan where China does not have any role to play as acknolwdged by its own spokesperson.

I agree with your final thrust that the "resolution of J&K is a bilateral matter between India and Pakistan where China does not have any role to play as acknolwdged by its own spokesperson."

However, I am not sure what China would or would not do if specifically requested to show certain "gestures".

I will not speculate on the wisdom of showing these "gestures" along the lines of stapling visa. I will say, however, that if these were "unrequested", spontaneous gestures from the CCP upper echelons, then no doubt in my mind they were dumber then I could give them credit for.

Dumb people are everywhere as you know.

So there. I will reiterate that I am more than skeptical of the PRC's little game of stapling visas. As an inconsequential individual, I in fact personally disapprove of them.

Having said that, let's not forget, by being a bi-national issue between India and Pakistan, Kashmir's status is internationally un-determined.

So in a legalistic sort of way, PRC was not "infringing" on Indian soverignty when they did the visa stapling bit.

And for a third time, the above notwithstanding, I don't like it personally.

Now back to the "joint administration" ... why only in Kashmir Valley? I don't know. I am not even saying that. Heck who am I to propose that? I am just throwing out ideas ... that's all.

Finally, "joint administration of Kashmir Valley" is not a gesture to Kashmir per se (I know it's not a politically correct thing to utter), but it is a gesture to Pakistan.

What's more important?

The cake in making peace "with" Kashmir is not making peace with Kashmir, but to make peace with Pakistan, which you know better than any. This separates this conflict from all other "protests" in India, or in Pakistan or China for that matter.

In Balochistan, who is Pakistan to realistically "jointly administer" with? With Iran? They sure are not asking for it.

With the CIA perhaps ... just like Kurdistan, xxxstan ...

First let's strive for "practical" righteousness, then hopefully "moral" righteousness.

No?

Here India could be a leader.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Callous absolutely.

Healthy and logical speculation is welcome,but such callous ones without sound backing,especially during such a time of mourning can screw things up really bad.However people did not pay much attention to it as we were very angry with the bland statement made by our own home minister.

Going ballistic not really.

I used that term specifically for Indian media on China.

CCTV is certainly more decent and less or not flashy and sensational and honestly a bit boring

 

[CardSharp]

Healthy and logical speculation is welcome,but such callous ones without sound backing,especially during such a time of mourning can screw things up really bad.However people did not pay much attention to it as we were very angry with the bland statement made by our own home minister.



I used that term specifically for Indian media on China.

CCTV is certainly more decent and less or not flashy and sensational and honestly a bit boring

Agreed

The theme that CCTV wants to project is China prosperous, China Harmonious, China respected in the International Community. It certainly wouldn't fit this theme to say India hates China! or India working to undermine China! or similar such sensationalist headlines.

 

[Jade]

India is not the air, after all, exist in the world, I do not want to play word games, but India is not part of China's influential life,true.In addition, I joined this thread, just tired of India against China, everywhere, this hostility can bring peace?

Anyway wait for another ten years, you will see a lot of news in your media on India

 

[CardSharp]

Anyway wait for another ten years, you will see a lot of news in your media on India

Is that some kind of lame threat?

China can only ignore India at its peril. The recent action from Chinese is needlessly making India aggressive and could not only be detrimental to Indo Chinese relation but could have larger repercussion.

So you are actually threatening an entire country of 1.4 billion, on a defence forum

 

[Jade]

China can only ignore India at its peril. The recent action from Chinese is needlessly making India aggressive and could not only be detrimental to Indo Chinese relation but could have larger repercussion.

 

[Jade]

Is that some kind of lame threat?

No not at all. China has to remember what it was only two decades ago. If China can do it so can India

 

[CardSharp]

No not at all. China has to remember what it was only two decades ago. If China can do it so can India

There is little doubt that India will only become a larger force in the future, my concern is the the popular sentiment in the country and what this impact will have on India's macro-political policy.

Will it be a stabilizing force or a destabilizing force?

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Cancelling the Indian generals's visa was a wrong move from China which has started all this agression. A move really uncalled for when things were improving.

 

[CardSharp]

Cancelling the Indian generals's visa was a wrong move from China which has started all this agression. A move really uncalled for when things were improving.

Come now, do you really believe there was no animosity against China before this event?

I actually think the trouble in the relationship began in the 50's

 

[lalluyadav]

the countries who wants good relationship should compromise on the issues.but china dont understand this.definitely india will see as an provocation.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Come now, do you really believe there was no animosity against China before this event?

I actually think the trouble in the relationship began in the 50's

You are right that things were not in place since start, but if we talk about the recent years, then the relations wre much better and was always improving. am not here to say it's india's fault or China's fault. both have done their bit to improve the relationship.

the reason I say about the visa issue is what was the need of cancellingthe visa of this general when they allowed generals even from anurachal in previous years..this has just needlessly hurt India in a sensitive issue and thus more agression.

 

[Jade]

There is little doubt that India will only become a larger force in the future, my concern is the the popular sentiment in the country and what this impact will have on India's macro-political policy.

Will it be a stabilizing force or a destabilizing force?

No country in world feels secure, however big or powerful it could be. China feels insecure of US and India feels insecure of China. Some times it better to create enemies/competition to be on toes

 

[CardSharp]

You are right that things were not in place since start, but if we talk about the recent years, then the relations wre much better and was always improving. am not here to say it's india's fault or China's fault. both have done their bit to improve the relationship.

the reason I say about the visa issue is what was the need of cancellingthe visa of this general when they allowed generals even from anurachal in previous years..this has just needlessly hurt India in a sensitive issue and thus more agression.

I am generally optimistic about Indo-Sino relationship for 21th century. This setback (whatever the reason for it) seems to have blown over and besides some hurt feelings, things seem on track again.

We can speculate about the timing or why it happened but I'm not sure we civvies will ever find out. China rarely does anything without reason on foreign matters like this and it seems unlikely it did it just to wound Indian pride (which can be prickly at the best of times ).

No country in world feels secure, however big or powerful it could be. China feels insecure of US and India feels insecure of China. Some times it better to create enemies/competition to be on toes

Nonsense why would anyone want unnecessary hostility

 

[Jade]

Come now, do you really believe there was no animosity against China before this event?

I actually think the trouble in the relationship began in the 50's

There are certain issues which are at heart of every country. Kashmir is the issue which India takes to heart…and China has to be sensitive to the issue which India holds dear.