Once you’re Pakistani, there is no going back to India

[doppelganger]

Look I expressed my opinion, it's a free world and I am free to speak my mind.

No you are not. Your rights of freedom of expression cease when they offend and inflame others. And invite retaliatory behavior in the same vein.

All rights come with responsibilities. Yours is to be cognizant of the sensibilities of others while exercising your right to expression.

You can revere what you like along with some Pakistani grave worshippers, if you look at the story of Ajmer then you will realize that Sufis mystic power didn't get them anything, it was the sword of the Turco Afghans that achieved it all for them so they can bow down without fear.

It's very sad to see some Pakistanis & Indians claiming the Turco Afghan history as Islamic history. Islam had nothing to do with it, it was the strong and motivated that achieved the success.

Yet most Pakistanis like to claim that the bulk of subcontinental Hindus became Muslim peacefully off of their own volition impresse as they were by the largely peaceful Sufi brand of Islam. You apparently do not agree. And I actually agree with you on the same.

Most of your ancestors became Muslim at the tip of invading swords. The ones who were stronger and braver, resisted and stayed Hindu. And remain Hindu to this day.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Connections, remaining families. Etc.
The Indian government is essentially turning extremist along with its population.. the day is not far when Muslims will be treated like untouchables with properties snatched, one sides "justice" and pointless detention. Its a dangerous precedent in India.

Extremist as in muslims bombing mosques or taliban trying to take over half the country or soldiers blowing their own and sailors trying to take over naval ships for taliban??.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Quite the effing Hero you are.... are'nt ya???
Here @Oscar, @WebMaster; we have a worthy candidate to be elevated to the rank of PDF Analist.



How many others like him, BTW.



p.s. at least get the name right........ since you claim him as a country-man.

his post was disgraceful and he is on the watch I personally notified him with a warning
DONT quote such garbage otherwise it lives on in your post although the original is deleted by Mods

 

[naveen mishra]

Every year thousands of Sikhs visit Pakistan for Yatra, never heard of them facing any problem. Are they not Indians?

but they are not hindu... you are giving visa to sikhs for political reason

 

[Arsalan]

How many others like him, BTW.

Many more dear, you can look it up for yourself and if there are any problems let me know and i can name a few.

The thing people mostly forget is that Pakistan is an Islamic State, we claim to be an Islamic state as by laws of our religion minorities should enjoy equal rights. However there are bad sheep's everywhere and some minorities do face trouble here, but again, this is all happening in a country that calls it self an Islamic Republic. Unlike some other that call themselves as secular moderate democracy but the i what is happening there to the minorities??? Do you see this kind of ethnic cleansing in modern times what is being done to Muslims, Christians, Sikhs.... or have been done??
It is always better to correct oneself first before criticizing others for a similar mistake.

Also in Pakistan, we also have Muslims killing Muslims, so these terrorists are not making life problematic for one particular religion. This is a problem we are facing and are trying to fight it. I am not saying that all is perfect here but just telling you the situation in this same region.

Just one small thing to add, i think it is our role to address these issues. We are a bunch of young people from different countries and backgrounds, different religions., this is our duty to preach peace. NO RELIGION calls for killing of innocent people based on there religion. I have family in rural Sindh, i see the hindu labour there, i agree that there condition is not good but have you seen punjabi or Afghani labour??? they are also not living in palaces. This said, this is NO EXCUSE. these problems should be addressed. They are our Pakistan brothers/sisters, heck they are humans. On a side note, i think u will be surprised to know that my chahca who lives there in sindh, he have a hindu guy who takes care of his farming etc. and my czns, they call him mamu So it is not that everything is bad and it is also not that all is perfectly fine!!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

his post was disgraceful and he is on the watch I personally notified him with a warning
DONT quote such garbage otherwise it lives on in your post although the original is deleted by Mods

The needful has been done.

 

[IceCold]

How many others like him, BTW.



p.s. at least get the name right........ since you claim him as a country-man.

Funny you nit pick my post but do not get the crux behind it.

but they are not hindu... you are giving visa to sikhs for political reason

They are Indians. Just like being Pakistani does not automatically mean being a muslim

 

[K.P.K]

No you do not. Your rights cease when they offend and inflame others. And invite retaliatory behavior in the same vein.

All rights come with responsibilities. Yours is to be cognizant of the sensibilities of others while exercising your right to expression.



Yet most Pakistanis like to claim that the bulk of subcontinental Hindus became Muslim peacefully off of their own volition impresse as they were by the largely peaceful Sufi brand of Islam. You apparently do not agree. And I actually agree with you on the same.

Most of your ancestors became Muslim at the tip of invading swords. The ones who were stronger and braver, resisted and stayed Hindu. And remain Hindu to this day.

My ancestors were Pukhtoon before and After Islam, so nothing has changed there we are still Pukhtoons first and anything religious later.

Only people that were interested in converting was Sufis of Pakistan, however we don't see conversion as any beneficial as its easier to kill dump and take without the religious baggage.

If you go through history you will see being a Muslim didn't matter, if you were an Indian Muslim you were still treated differently, seperate mosques and so on.

There is no such thing as Islamic history, it's Turco Afghan history, Islamic history was Bin Qasim, you can see it didn't achieve much.

his post was disgraceful and he is on the watch I personally notified him with a warning
DONT quote such garbage otherwise it lives on in your post although the original is deleted by Mods

I just expressed my views now what ever happened to freedom of speech?.

No worries you got a few thanks out of the Indians that should have made your day.

 

[doppelganger]

My ancestors were Pukhtoon before and After Islam, so nothing has changed there we are still Pukhtoons first and anything religious later.

Only people that were interested in converting was Sufis of Pakistan, however we don't see conversion as any beneficial as its easier to kill dump and take without the religious baggage.

If you go through history you will see being a Muslim didn't matter, if you were an Indian Muslim you were still treated differently, desperate mosques and so on.

There is no such thing as Islamic history, it's Turco Afghan history, Islamic history was Bin Qasim, you can see it didn't achieve much.

I am largely in agreement with you. And have thanked your post for the same. Not the part you added later to Irfan. But I'll let the thanks stay. Marathas don't take back something once given.

I just expressed my views now what ever happened to freedom of speech?.

No worries you got a few thanks out of the Indians that should have made your day.

I am personally an ambitious sort and am gunning for a Think Tankship. It will make me feel like a big man and help me tide over any personal inadequacies I might feel in real life. At least that is what I hope for.

I did not agree with you on Ajmer Sharif. I know many Hindus who go there as well. I am personally not a very religious guy. But I cannot stand two things -

1) a religious bigot (I find racists on the other hand kind of entertaining)

2) someone who insults another's faith

I also do not like guys who hit girls, but that is not relevant to the discusion here. Just so you got the complete picture.

 

[K.P.K]

I am largely in agreement with you. And have thanked your post for the same. Not the part you added later to Irfan. But I'll let the thanks stay. Marathas don't take back something once given.



I am personally an ambitious sort and am gunning for a Think Tankship. It will make me feel like a big man and help me tid over any inadequacies I might feel in real life. At least that is what I hope for.

I did not agree with you on Ajmer Sharif. I know many Hindus who go there as well. I am ersonally not a very religious guy. But I cannot stand two things -

1) a religious bigot (I find racists on the other hand kind of entertaining)

2) someone who insults another's faith

I also do not like guys who hit girls, but that is not relevant to the discusion here. Just so you got the complete picture.

If you didn't agree with me on Ajmer then that's fine as you are entitled to your opinion, however Ajmer is insignificant to a person like me.

Now ask yourself a question, would the Sufis have dared to preach without a solid security by the Turco Afghans?.

Would divine Sufi help would have defeated prithvi Raj? Am afraid not, religion wouldn't have helped one bit but the courage and bravery of Turco Afghans Was decisive for the Sufis to smoke their drugs and spread their Sufism?.

Why is Ajmer revered by Hindus when it's a sole Islamic entity?.

I am not a religious bigot as religion is secondary, racist perhaps but not a religious bigot.

Unfortunately Indians fail to realize that my community is not welcoming to Indians and for that matter Arabs or anyone else, we are quite racist to be honest not that it's a crime.

 

[doppelganger]

If you didn't agree with me on Ajmer then that's fine as you are entitled to your opinion, however Ajmer is insignificant to a person like me.

Regardless. Your personal opinions should be kept out of civil public discourse.

Now ask yourself a question, would the Sufis have dared to preach without a solid security by the Turco Afghans?.

Would divine Sufi help would have defeated prithvi Raj? Am afraid not, religion wouldn't have helped one bit but the courage and bravery of Turco Afghans Was decisive for the Sufis to smoke their drugs and spread their Sufism?.

Why not call them by their accepted name. Mughals?

Why is Ajmer revered by Hindus when it's a sole Islamic entity?.

Ajmer Sharif is largely seen as secular by most. Also there are miraculous powers attributed for the ailing and the posessed.

Unfortunately Indians fail to realize that my community is not welcoming to Indians and for that matter Arabs or anyone else, we are quite racist to be honest not that it's a crime.

Who cares what the Pakistani Pukhtoon community thinks, welcomes, or whatever.

Ou focus is on your brothers across the border.

 

[K.P.K]

Regardless. Your personal opinions should be kept out of civil public discourse.



Why not call them by their accepted name. Mughals?



Ajmer Sharif is largely seen as secular by most. Also there are miraculous powers attributed for the ailing and the posessed.



Who cares what the Pakistani Pukhtoon community thinks, welcomes, or whatever.

Ou focus is on your brothers across the border.

So we are in agreement that there is no Islamic history but Turco Afghan History.

Mughals are a Turkic group just like khiljis so it's best to use their grouping and Turkic is there group.

Afghans as in lodhis are an Afghan/Iranic group but not Turkic.

Anyone who smokes drugs can see and feel the miracle and Ajmer is no different.

We don't expect Indians to care what Pukhtoons community thinks, we are more interested in what our Pakistani community thinks, not that it always matters what they think.

My brothers are in Pakistan & not across the border.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Our Country ; Our rules

 

[doppelganger]

So we are in agreement that there is no Islamic history but Turco Afghan History.

Mughals are a Turkic group just like khiljis so it's best to use their grouping and Turkic is there group.

Afghans as in lodhis are an Afghan/Iranic group but not Turkic.

Anyone who smokes drugs can see and feel the miracle and Ajmer is no different.

Mughals firstly are not Turko-Afghan. They are Persianised (satrapized) Turko-Mongols.

Secondly, the Pukhtoons are an Iranic people, and as such were also the conquered. The only difference between you and the tribes on the other side of the Indus being that you were conquered first.

Your attempts at reversing the narrative and taking on the mantle of conqueror from conquered is what is commonly called revisionism.

 

[K.P.K]

Mughals firstly are not Turko-Afghan. They are Persianised (satrapized) Turko-Mongols.

Secondly, the Pukhtoons are an Iranic people, and as such were also the conquered. The only difference between you and the tribes on the other side of the Indus being that you were conquered first.

Your attempts at reversing the narrative and taking on the mantle of conqueror from conquered is what is commonly called revisionism.

If you must know Pukhtoons belong to a confederation, some Pukhtoons are Iranic while others such as khiljis are Turkic.

Name me one community that hasn't been conquered?. Some have been conquered more then others.

Persianised doesn't mean they were Persians.

The whole debate is regarding Indian Muslims trying to take history of others and call it Islamic history when it's not.

Word Turco Afghan means Turkic & Afghan people, it doesn't mean they were the same but they had same interests.

Ghurids, ghaznavid, were Afghans and look at their achievements.