On Iran's future possibilities with Sukhoi

[haman10]

It is not important what is being sold to Iran. What is important is not to waste money on something that will be of no utility to Iran eg. JF-17. A plane that even the manufacturing and designing country has rejected for inclusion into its air force. Chinese Air Force categorically rejected to fly this plane. The fighter planes are tools that produce projection of air power. If Iran is to spend billions on a tool, then it must see the result of this expenditure in increased projection of its air power otherwise it is useless. Iranian Air Force does not need a show piece for national "pride", unlike many other Air Forces. That is why Iran should not even buy Su-35 which will be irrelevant in future. Su-50 is another story.

if we want to buy any foreign aircraft , which would work in par with our own indigenous fighters , here are my suggestions :

J-31 in par with the new Saeghe to replace all F-5s and F-4s

J-20 or T-50 in par with our own F-313 and the second one which has no name yet

anything besides this is bullocks as you mentioned cause we should think long term

 

[Daneshmand]

Do you believe it would be worth it? Are you aiming for air superioity over your airspace or...? I don't believe small number will secure Iran since it is wide, large landmass.

Iran wont buy just 20. Rest assured of that. It is just an idea probably mooted around indirectly by Russians as a threat to US because of sanctions. 20 planes do not even make up a functioning squadron which requires 30 planes. If Iran ever negotiates for this, it should and will be on the same basis as Indian deal, that is with technology transfer and co-production. 150 such planes at the cost of 100 million dollars come to 15 billion dollars which Iran can easily offer to Russia. Hell, Iran can even offer 5 billion dollars more to a total cost of 20 billion for the entire project, much more than what Indians are paying Russia.

 

[haman10]

over your airspace

i don't think so

we've got AD systems for that . we don't need lots of Fighter projects like shafagh , saeghe 1 and 2 , Qaher , borhan , ... to simply secure our own borders . the whole iranian doctrine is to confront the enemy outside our own borders before they even reach our air space .

Long range heavy bombers are also being developed ( for some special reasons which you might be aware of )

 

[Daneshmand]

if we want to buy any foreign aircraft , which would work in par with our own indigenous fighters , here are my suggestions :

J-31 in par with the new Saeghe to replace all F-5s and F-4s

J-20 or T-50 in par with our own F-313 and the second one which has no name yet

anything besides this is bullocks as you mentioned cause we should think long term

Yes. That is pretty much it. But I do not think national projects like F-313 or Saeqeh need to be replaced. They should move at their own pace. As Indians are doing. A parallel national project to develop indigenous planes and if the situation permits then also import technology from abroad. Indians are doing both and Iran should do so as well. No need to replace anything. But the point is, the technology that is being imported at the cost of billions should be a relevant one and not a museum piece. Iran bought F-14 in 1970's and it is still relevant to Iran's defense because it was the top fighter of its day. Similarly if Iran is to invest billions today, it must do so only if it can be sure that, this technology remains relevant in 2050 and beyond. Otherwise it is a wastage of money and resources.

 

[Serpentine]

Do you believe it would be worth it? Are you aiming for air superioity over your airspace or...? I don't believe small number will secure Iran since it is wide, large landmass.

Let's say a 40-50 strong batch of 4++ jet fighters can be a real nightmare for any invading force. We are not looking for air superiority in foreign countries as our military doctrine is based on deterrence, but we need an air force that can cause a huge headache for any invading force.

 

[jarves]

Israel airforce is very strong and they will soon have couple of squadrons of F-35.Saudi Airforce is also very strong so seeing the threat present,realistically IrAF should have atleast 6 to 7 squadrons of mix of FGFA and T-50 for air superiority and DEAD/SEAD operations.Apart from this a large fleet of light indigenous fighters for interception and defensive roles for fighting a long war.This should be done in a period of 10 years and Dont forget atleast 6 to 7 AWACS which act as a force multipliers.

 

[Daneshmand]

i don't think so

we've got AD systems for that . we don't need lots of Fighter projects like shafagh , saeghe 1 and 2 , Qaher , borhan , ... to simply secure our own borders . the whole iranian doctrine is to confront the enemy outside our own borders before they even reach our air space .

Long range heavy bombers are also being developed ( for some special reasons which you might be aware of )

I think for domestic air space ground based AD systems are best. Su-50 will be for projection of air superiority outside the borders. Very cool. It will make the zizzillion of dollars of investment that some countries around Iran have made in F-15's, F-16's, F-18's, Eurofighters and F-35, all going to garbage bin forever.

 

[haman10]

But I do not think national projects like F-313 or Saeqeh need to be replaced

thats exactly what i said

i think you misunderstood me . i said we could buy J-20/T-50 and use it along our own fighters like F-313 !

of course we won't abandon our own national projects , we are not crazy . lol

 

[asena_great]

if usa selling f35 to turkey than we can hop russians will sell t-50 to iran but i afried they will sell a monkey version which will be a waste of time , if iran even could buy t-50 even 5-10 , it will be good for iran spacilly if russian agree these jets builded in iran by iranian hands other wise it wont worth it

if u ask me go talk with chinese they are more trustworthy than russians

 

[Serpentine]

Israel airforce is very strong and they will soon have couple of squadrons of F-35.Saudi Airforce is also very strong so seeing the threat present,realistically IrAF should have atleast 6 to 7 squadrons of mix of FGFA and T-50 for air superiority and DEAD/SEAD operations.Apart from that a large fleet of light indigenous fighters for interception and defensive roles for fighting a long war.This should be done in a period of 10 years.

Neither Saudis nor Israel are a major issue. First chances of a war with Saudis is nearly zero and also, we can wipe out many of their air bases, major infrastructures with missiles. Israel is also 1000 kms away and it can't project huge air power to Iran for a long time. The most threatening one is U.S air force in the region and we followed guerrilla warfare to deter that. There's more things that needs to be done, but our first priority is completing indigenous AD systems which are underway.

 

[My-Analogous]

We've all heard about the recent russian defense minister's visit to iran and the agreements that were made . quite interestingly , Sokhoi company has recently published a "time schedule" for its new 5th Gen. fighter , the SU-50 .

in this chart , its clear that the company is apparently developing its SU-50 ES for iranian AirForce (20 of this special variation by 2022) . now if its possible i want some civilized discussion on the possibilities . Will russia go on with the deal ? Should iran trust the russians again ?

This Chart Shows All Of The Versions Of Russia's Fifth-generation Fighter Jet | Business Insider

Timeline shows the potential future of Russia's next-gen fighter jet

Pros : 1- iran will have access to an special variation of a 5th Gen fighter jet which will immensely boost our AF to the Alpha and Omega power in the region , providing great extent of Offence and Defense capabilities .

2- will buy iran some time till our own fighter programs mature to the level of mass production .

cons :

previous experience with the unreliable russian officials who are willing to even abandon the signed pacts to satisfy their real-time political needs .

1- S-300 deal .

2- MATF / Mig-i-2000 project .

3-Bushehr Nuclear power plant

i will go on and mention the unjust sanctions approved by russia which was a hard back-swording from russia but that would deviate our discussion .

so what do you think ?

@kollang @Serpentine @New @Arminkh @rahi2357 @SOHEIL @raptor22 @mohsen

First asked them to release s300 and then later go with other pacts. They have to supply S300

 

[haman10]

Neither Saudis nor Israel are a major issue. First chances of a war with Saudis is nearly zero and also, we can wipe out many of their air bases, major infrastructures with missiles. Israel is also 1000 kms away and it can't project huge air power to Iran for a long time. The most threatening one is U.S air force in the region and we followed guerrilla warfare to deter that. There's more things that needs to be done, but our first priority is completing indigenous AD systems which are underway.

one should now know the reasons behind iran's massive amount of expenditure on AD systems .

our strategists are not stupid , they know what they are doing . iran's Airspace is now closed to any foreign threat , and in very near future , we can even expand our AD system's range to outside our own borders to confront threats outside our territory , just like our southern borders right now (which can project their power to almost near the borders of PG states )

 

[SipahSalar]

It is not important what is being sold to Iran. What is important is not to waste money on something that will be of no utility to Iran eg. JF-17. A plane that even the manufacturing and designing country has rejected for inclusion into its air force. Chinese Air Force categorically rejected to fly this plane. The fighter planes are tools that produce projection of air power. If Iran is to spend billions on a tool, then it must see the result of this expenditure in increased projection of its air power otherwise it is useless. Iranian Air Force does not need a show piece for national "pride", unlike many other Air Forces. That is why Iran should not even buy Su-35 which will be irrelevant in future. Su-50 is another story.

China is not using JF-17 because it doesn't fit their security requirement, the J-10 already fills the role perfectly. Pakistan does not have the same budget as China, so we needed an affordable fighter comparable to J-10.
The hard truth is no one is selling any aircraft whatsoever to Iran, not even a Mig-21. Although the budget for the Photoshop branch of IrAF seems to be pretty high.

 

[Daneshmand]

if usa selling f35 to turkey than we can hop russians will sell t-50 to iran but i afried they will sell a monkey version which will be a waste of time , if iran even could buy t-50 even 5-10 , it will be good for iran spacilly if russian agree these jets builded in iran by iranian hands other wise it wont worth it

if u ask me go talk with chinese they are more trustworthy than russians

Lol. Monkey version? That used to happen in USSR cold war. Not anymore. Russians nowadays are selling to foreign customers better version that they themselves use for instance the Su-30MKI that India bought. And if Iran gets the technology to manufacture 10 planes, what will stop Iran to build another 150, since the technology is already there to build more? Or you mean Iran builds ten of these and then the Russians will somehow erase the knowledge from Iranian brains afterwards?

 

[haman10]

s300

S-300 is a dead project for iran , we have much better indigenous systems right now in iran . iran does NOT need the S-300 anymore .

the talks are probably for antey-2000 for Ballistic missile protection or the S-400 .