Oliver Hazard Class Frigate Acquisition by Pakistan

[Penguin]

Yes good point well once we get they ship may be we will get to know more of the OHP class

Well at our current status , any ship is a good ship - we really don't have that many ships in our navy - with current floods not sure how the gov will decide , building dam is more important for country

I am just glad the sailors will get to operate a large ship get used to it and may be we can then focus on similar larger ships if we have the appropriate funding

I was hoping to see pictures of OHP coming and docking in GWADAR or Karachi and pics but now we hear its coming next year - so it was major disapointment

But we will see so far our current gov failed in its bid to get any addition

German Subs deal broken down
French deals in limbo
US OHP we keep getting conflicting info that its 1 ship or 6 ships
The F16 are delayed , the ohp is delayed till next year

This gov we have just has no clue how to close deals

In Musharif's time we some what made our forces some what respectable

There is no unclarity about the OHP deal: Pakistan requested six, the first of which is the ex-McInerney and more will follow AS THEY ARE DECOMMISSIONED FROM USN SERVICE (i.e. starting fiscal year 2012)

The MicInerney deal is proceeding exactly as was announced: there is no delay!

 

[Arsalan]

To me it looks like you are basing too much here and undermining US-PN agreements.

?

relax friend,
i am just trying to make you recollect memoroes of the past,,
i hope you are well aware of Pak-US not so all weather frindship^^

First of all lets not call a Frigate a "boat".
This is not wild assumptions but educated guess since my first prediction has already come out to be true regarding its refurbishment right after commission in PN.

agreed!
any list of upgrades that will be performed!
dont say that it is all too secret, if there is any official statement about list of upgrades, rather, refurbishment; as the ship at present virtually have no waepons system that can be upgraded, i would love to see that and will be really happy for it!

The MK13 is not something straight out of US current production line but rather a phased out system for savings and allies demand for SM-1 missiles. The MK13 can be refitted at PN's demand and i am very confident about MK41 being retrofitted since PN is interested in inducting RUM-139.

this is the point i feel hard to digest,
i can hardly remember a deal where US have given us something good just beause we were intrested in it!

Not a big deal since we are already getting latest F-16s with AMRAAM and associate equipments.

i hope the refurbishment dont have to wait for so long as the example you quoted,,
you know the lost decade, we cannot lose another one!

PN is planning on retiring its sea king fleet.

so what will we be getting on board these ships?

Its not a assumption but a fact that the radar were frequently upgraded! Please go through threads where i have clearly stated this.

agreed!

What potential

dont you really know or are just talking out of dislike for the F-22p,,
i suggest you visit multiple threads regarding the system or just google it!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

Let's stop this useless debate a.k.a. pissing contest. It is simple:
at present, the ship is not armed with either AShM or SAM, but does have CIWS and other naval guns, as well as a full ASW outfit (though not clear which helicopters she will use).
Upon refurbishment, there are 3 possible outcomes:
-- she stays the way she is
-- Mk13 launcher arm and STIR are reinstalled, reinstating SAM and AShM capability to original condition
-- Mk13 launcher arm and STIR are not reinstalled but some other solution to the lack of AShM and SAM is implemented.

Untill such time as the ship come out of the refurb proces, or there is some official indication detailing what's being done, it is all just quesswork and/or wishlists that we're posting here.

You may or may not like OHP as is, but you can't really judge untill after the refurb.

that is the best answer i gess,

the refurbishments are not finalized yet,
i agree we shoul not call it a boat as we no nothing about what upgrades are on cards, also i state that we should not call it PN most advanced warship with the upgrades not known as yet!!

i think it is quite simple, all we can discuss at this point of time is partical upgrades prospects that the ship might receive!

no point in compaing with F-22p or anything at this point of time!

thanks Penguin!!


regards!

 

[Penguin]

For those who think an OHP is 'just' an ASW ship, and therefor of limited usefullness, consider:

Z9/AS565
The fuel capacity is 1,140 litre
Range: 820km
Max speed: 285km/h
Endurance: >4 hours

SH-60
Maximum speed: 180 kn (333 km/h; 207 mph)
Cruise speed: 146 kn (270 km/h; 168 mph)
Range: 450 nmi (518 mi/834 km) at cruise speed

The longest-range submarine launched (cruise) missiles of the IN are of the Klub-S family, none of which have a range of between 220km and 300km.

Picture 1 or 2 OHPs, each with 2 helicopters, accompanied by 1 or 2 F22P, each with 1 helicopter. This gives 3-6 ASW helicopters, which allows the ship group to engage enemy subs well before these get into anti-ship missile firing range of the group. Moreover, when place between the sub and the coast, the group keeps the sub(s) out of land attack missile range. You'ld have 1-2 heli's working an area where a sub is located or expected and the rest flying back and forth and refuelling/rearming. Importantly, unlike the F22P, the OHP has the sonar gear to effectively conduct this type of action. Sub detection would be aided by P-3C Orions.

 

[muse]

Picture 1 or 2 OHPs, each with 2 helicopters, accompanied by 1 or 2 F22P, each with 1 helicopter. This gives 3-6 ASW helicopters, which allows the ship group to engage enemy subs well before these get into anti-ship missile firing range of the group. Moreover, when place between the sub and the coast, the group keeps the sub(s) out of land attack missile range. You'ld have 1-2 heli's working an area where a sub is located or expected and the rest flying back and forth and refuelling/rearming. Importantly, unlike the F22P, the OHP has the sonar gear to effectively conduct this type of action. Sub detection would be aided by P-3C Orions

For PN the IN is the immediate adversary - what will the rest of the IN be doing while OHP +F22 hunt IN subs?

 

[fatman17]

For PN the IN is the immediate adversary - what will the rest of the IN be doing while OHP +F22 hunt IN subs?

chasing your OHP+F22s

 

[Penguin]

For PN the IN is the immediate adversary - what will the rest of the IN be doing while OHP +F22 hunt IN subs?

What will the rest of the PN as well as PA and PAF be doing? In other words, there's always the possibility to escalate a scenario. This does not detract from the capability as pointed out, however.

What do you think OHP and F22P are intended for, primarily? To take on superior numbers of surface ships in conditions where air cover is perhaps not ensured?

 

[Penguin]

chasing your OHP+F22s

Not really, at least not if you consider the big picture. Perhaps guarding agains PN subs, or fending off air attack by landbased aviation, if IN ships are unwise enough to come too close to shore. Or worrying that something else might happen elsewhere e.g. near Bangladesh, or that the Chinese PLAN might stop by.

You can't very well expect PN to checkmate the entire IN, in view of numerical and doctrinal differences. Besides, India can't afford to focus IN attention on PN only.

AN interesting read from last July: http://www.faqs.org/periodicals/201007/2046727451.html

 

[Arsalan]

For those who think an OHP is 'just' an ASW ship, and therefor of limited usefullness, consider:

Z9/AS565
The fuel capacity is 1,140 litre
Range: 820km
Max speed: 285km/h
Endurance: >4 hours

SH-60
Maximum speed: 180 kn (333 km/h; 207 mph)
Cruise speed: 146 kn (270 km/h; 168 mph)
Range: 450 nmi (518 mi/834 km) at cruise speed

The longest-range submarine launched (cruise) missiles of the IN are of the Klub-S family, none of which have a range of between 220km and 300km.

Picture 1 or 2 OHPs, each with 2 helicopters, accompanied by 1 or 2 F22P, each with 1 helicopter. This gives 3-6 ASW helicopters, which allows the ship group to engage enemy subs well before these get into anti-ship missile firing range of the group. Moreover, when place between the sub and the coast, the group keeps the sub(s) out of land attack missile range. You'ld have 1-2 heli's working an area where a sub is located or expected and the rest flying back and forth and refuelling/rearming. Importantly, unlike the F22P, the OHP has the sonar gear to effectively conduct this type of action. Sub detection would be aided by P-3C Orions.

where does the SH-60 comes from?
are we getting these? i havent heard absolutely anyting regarding there accqusition, any source?

regards!

 

[Penguin]

where does the SH-60 comes from?
are we getting these? i havent heard absolutely anyting regarding there accqusition, any source?

regards!

Just for the purpose of comparison, so you know what a shiptype with multiple helicopters might add to a squadron. Never suggested or implied SH60 was acquired.

SH2F Seasprite
Maximum speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h)
Cruise speed: 130 knots (150 mph, 241 km/h)
Range: 366 nmi (422 mi, 679 km)

SH2G Super Seasprite
Maximum speed: 138 knots (256 km/h, 159 mph)
Cruise speed: 120 knots (222 km/h, 138 mph)
Range: 540 nmi (1,000 km, 869 mi) < 500km back and forth (you can fly out 2hrs at cruise speed to 400km, patrol the area for an hour and then fly back).

 

[Arsalan]

Just for the purpose of comparison, so you know what a shiptype with multiple helicopters might add to a squadron. Never suggested or implied SH60 was acquired.

SH2F Seasprite
Maximum speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h)
Cruise speed: 130 knots (150 mph, 241 km/h)
Range: 366 nmi (422 mi, 679 km)

SH2G Super Seasprite
Maximum speed: 138 knots (256 km/h, 159 mph)
Cruise speed: 120 knots (222 km/h, 138 mph)
Range: 540 nmi (1,000 km, 869 mi) < 500km back and forth (you can fly out 2hrs at cruise speed to 400km, patrol the area for an hour and then fly back).

ok!
thanks for clearing it.
i thought we may find a source pointing to accusition of these platforms but

anyways thanks for information!

regards!

 

[Stealth_fighter]

The frigate will be commissioned as PNS Alamgir at a ceremony on Aug 31 in the United Staes and a comprehensive refurbishment of the ship, in line with Pakistan Navy's requirements, will be undertaken under the supervision of US Navy, it said. Upon completion of refurbishment work in Jan 2011, PNS Alamgir will sail to Pakistan to join the country's naval fleet.


Pakistan gets US OHP class guided missile frigate for $65 mn

 

[Donatello]

For PN the IN is the immediate adversary - what will the rest of the IN be doing while OHP +F22 hunt IN subs?

Indian Navy is in no capability to launch amphibious operations on Pakistan soil. For Karachi is the most important target for them.

PN would need to provide defense of coastal waters and make sure shipping lines remain open. Near Karachi, Air force will take care of the rest.

5 diesel electric subs are more than enough in terms of lethality for PN. It depends on how they use them and engage them. Hunting IN Subs or Ships?

 

[Donatello]

Not really, at least not if you consider the big picture. Perhaps guarding agains PN subs, or fending off air attack by landbased aviation, if IN ships are unwise enough to come too close to shore. Or worrying that something else might happen elsewhere e.g. near Bangladesh, or that the Chinese PLAN might stop by.

You can't very well expect PN to checkmate the entire IN, in view of numerical and doctrinal differences. Besides, India can't afford to focus IN attention on PN only.

AN interesting read from last July: S-2: Options for the Pakistan Navy - Naval War College Review

Very good post,

but PAF Mirage can be lethal, for they can be refueld in air now. Without refueling they still provide Exocet and C-803/805 support for at least 350km. That is lot of range for defense. Not to mention JF-17s stationed at Peshawar can be called in for additional escort and AShm C-803/805 support.....not to mention the upgraded P3-Cs.

I think the naval air arm must be strengthen. With timely warning a lot can be done. We don't have any intentions to conquer anyone

 

[truepakistani17]

Very good post,

but PAF Mirage can be lethal, for they can be refueld in air now. Without refueling they still provide Exocet and C-803/805 support for at least 350km. That is lot of range for defense. Not to mention JF-17s stationed at Peshawar can be called in for additional escort and AShm C-803/805 support.....not to mention the upgraded P3-Cs.

I think the naval air arm must be strengthen. With timely warning a lot can be done. We don't have any intentions to conquer anyone

JFT stationed at Peshwar being called for navla missions..

sir cant you figure out a more distant air field to look out for support??

in future we may well see JFT for naval roles stationed in Karachi, Gawadar, Quetta or Jaccobabad