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Oldest primate fossil yet found. It is a tiny Chinese Archicebus fossil

Oh pls do take your time.We are breathlessly awaiting you display of the superior education you have received.And yes I am addressing every points

Forgive him.

He is not here for a contribution.

His sole job seems to be "massage" and get tea and water for a particular poster.

That's OK. We do need someone to do that "important" job.
 
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1stly, differentiate between speciation, evolution theory, microevolution and also natural selection....then divide THESE into the fields you mentioned....except cytology, which doesnt directly deal with evolution....

Speciation:Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise.

Evolutionary theory;Could be referred to Original Darwin's theory of evolution which is a scientific argument explaining the origin of new species by the process of Natural selection.

It could also be referred to The modern evolutionary synthesis which is a 20th-century union of ideas from several biological specialties which provides a widely accepted account of the evolution.This theory was successful in establishing the fact that Natural selection is indeed the key driver process of evolution.As you might know Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species was successful in convincing most biologists that evolution had occurred, but was less successful in convincing them that natural selection was its primary mechanism.

Micro evolution:Microevolution is the changes in allele frequencies that occur over time within a population.This change is due to four different processes: mutation, selection (natural and artificial), gene flow, and genetic drift.

Natural selection:Natural selection is the gradual, non-random process by which biological traits become either more or less common in a population as a function of differential reproduction of their bearers. It is a key mechanism of evolution
Good you did your homework, so other scientist have refuted it soo why the surprise if I do the same?! :pop:


All Animal cells are Eukaryotic cells.
Sorry my bad..prokaryotic!




But the scientists did.
again read about prokaryotic cells...



Science classes are meant for teaching science subjects.Not pseudo sciences like Intelligent design.
it is supposed to help a person think...not feed them everything as facts...we all know science is ever changing...new discoveries come in and whatnot!



Don't know what you mean here.And yes i googled it and I posted a good source for my explanation but you didn't.
basic facts ....about human known to differentiate good and bed...yet you said we are the worst animals and what not...it was comparison...I googled mine too that is what I said, I didnt make it up you can google mine and you will find its source!

Oh pls do take your time.We are breathlessly awaiting you display of the superior education you have received.And yes I am addressing every points @Talon is making here.
you have only recently started addressing and posting articles...I think he was talking about before...
 
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No contributions.

Just personal attacks and f@rts coming from a grocery store.


For the nth time.

Contribute something on the topic.



instead of trying to bukiss a particular poster.

Thank you.You have been reported.
 
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pwehh, though this macaca's fossil is found in china, i am sure a shorter evolutionary path exists between this monkey and the yindoos than that does between it and modern-day continental east asians
 
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No contributions.

Just personal attacks and f@rts coming from a grocery store.


For the nth time.

Contribute something on the topic.



instead of trying to bukiss a particular poster.

foul language and personal attack reported
 
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He will say the same, and let people judge based on arguments both sides provide.
My question to you, if @Azazel is an woman, with much bigger expertise in this field (if she cares to disclose), will that automatically mean you are wrong?

It would mean I can start at a certain level and can use terminologies without having to explain the basics and jump right into the dilemma!

I would rather argue and be proved wrong than be silent. If thats your motto of argumentation, you can live by it(not argue about things you are not specialist on) but dont force other,.
We are all amateurs here.

Explain this to your countrymen!
 
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Good you did your homework, so other scientist have refuted it soo why the surprise if I do the same?! :pop:

They used to do that in early years of the 20th century.Before the developments in the field of genetics.You are supposed to be geneticist.And the field of genetics is the biggest contributor to the Evolutionary study.So yes I was a bit surprised.

Sorry my bad..prokaryotic!


again read about prokaryotic cells...

I did,.and I don't know what are you implying.Are you implying they are not connected at all.



it is supposed to help a person think...not feed them everything as facts...we all know science is ever changing...new discoveries come in and whatnot!

Exactly,That's all the more reason to teach them proper and well accepted scientific theories so that they could take the science one step forward.


basic facts ....about human known to differentiate good and bed...yet you said we are the worst animals and what not...it was comparison...I googled mine too that is what I said, I didnt make it up you can google mine and you will find its source!

I don't understand what you mean here.Can you be more specific.

you have only recently started addressing and posting articles...I think he was talking about before...

Nevertheless he is welcome to contribute positively.
 
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It would mean I can start at a certain level and can use terminologies without having to explain the basics and jump right into the dilemma!



Explain this to your countrymen!
i am not replying to you anymore, you will say am obsessed... plenty of other threads for me... :chilli:
 
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Study mutations and how they occur, where they occur and frequencies and their effects!
the frequency of developments span thousands if not millions of years, how on earth will you simulate such a timeframe and millions of environmental markers tat change in the process. In other-words, natural selection needs to be studied and identified, not recreated in lab

What are we debating here so ferociously?

If I were to wing it from skimming through the posts, its the natural selection vs creation debate? You lot won't be the first to end up at each others' throats on it.

So who has taken what positions? Tell me, I'd like to join in!

Me > Evolution,
 
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the frequency of developments span thousands if not millions of years,..,

Long time spans of slow change interspersed with bursts of activity is the hallmark of "evolution" that spans millions of years.

Creationists (both Medieval Christians and their Muslim followers) cannot account for it.

So they end up joking around the grand time scale.

Funny that some creationist group in USA talks about man existing at the same time as dinosaurs.


Oh well.
 
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There are scientific (not religious) reasons for not agreeing with natural selection. Mind you I don't have a formal education on the subject but I'm educated enough to listen to basic arguments and understand them.

This is what even Darwin had to say about natural selection:

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find out no such case.

Sure Darwin couldn't find it then. But people have found a case now or several. The Bacteria Flagellum

ch34f30.jpg


This bacteria propells itself using a tail that is connected to a rotary motor.

Now natural selection argues that if something was useless, it would be lost as the organism evolves. Now in the case of Bacteria Flagellum, did the tail come first or the rotary motor? If it was the tail, it would be useless without a rotary motor and should have been lost. If it was the rotary motor, it would have no purpose without the tail to proper itself.

Moreover delving deeper, the rotary motor has several parts. If you remove any one of the component it loses its function. How did these parts come into being while the previous ones may have been lying useless?

This shows, whenever the whole mechanism came into being, it came into being all at once.

Problem with Darwin was, he never went to the molecular level. His arguments were too much on the surface. His arguments were like a bird's beak is too big for this xyz purpose so it became smaller. We were apes, we lost hair, grew a larger brain and became human. This is not hard science by todays' standards, these are some very macro level observations. It was acceptable 150 years ago, today, not so much.

I believe evolution species and natural selection may be going on. But not at the level that Tyrannosaurus Rex of yesterday has evolved into my pet parrot today. Some will occur over a period of time through various mating patterns, maybe over time we'll all become white or all become black.

But there's no way you'll see the human species evolve as aquatic like mammals by mating with a dolphin. Even if tomorrow the world gets submerged under water and it is required of us to have good aquatic skills.

Also proponents of natural selection never explained how the first life came into being? All life consists of building blocks known as proteins, newer proteins, are also built by proteins. It begs the question where did the first protein come from?

Going further down, they are made of amino acids.

Going further down, amino acids base elements would be nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen and Carbon. Today in a controlled lab environment with all the right conditions, scientists are unable to recreate a protein with nothing but these base elements. Yes they can create proteins, using some other proteins, but never just from base elements. They reason is simple, genetic material is required in its creation. At the very least - the first protein ever, definitely came into existence all at once.

But I would concede that I cannot prove God made life only once you concede there are inconsistencies to saying that all complex life came into existence through random occurrences of natural selection. In some cases it is scientifically shown that there is "Intelligent Design" at play. Could be God, could be Isro's theory of Aliens seeding Earth. Scientifically speaking Isro's theory is more conceivable than natural selection.

Intelligent Design is the 30 year old new kid on the block. Just like the Theory of Evolution rendered creationism as a myth in the scientific community 50-75 odd years ago, Intelligent Design is gaining momentum and the time is not far when it too would force the theory of evolution to be known as the myth of evolution.
 
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.....
This bacteria propells itself using a tail that is connected to a rotary motor.

Now natural selection argues that if something was useless, it would be lost as the organism evolves. Now in the case of Bacteria Flagellum, did the tail come first or the rotary motor?.....

Aaaah the age old and much simpler question. Was chicken first or the egg?


Coming back to the tail and the motor question.

The problem with question is that it assumes the whole bacteria existed as it is now from day one.

So the motor must have been fully functional operational from day one and the tail must have been fully functional from day 1.

This is not the natural selection the way I understand.


natural selection is that the motor or the tail or both started out as much much simpler "muscles" in the Flagellum Release 1.0.

then there were several branches out of 1.0 that experimented with smaller "muscles" of all kinds. where tail was very different than what is today and the motor was much much simpler than what is today.


Over a long time, these simpler mechanisms of tail and motor evolved in unison to the current form.

Now that are mature, we cannot take first one out and wonder how the heck the second will work without the first.

hope this helps.
 
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There are scientific (not religious) reasons for not agreeing with natural selection. Mind you I don't have a formal education on the subject but I'm educated enough to listen to basic arguments and understand them.

This is what even Darwin had to say about natural selection:



Sure Darwin couldn't find it then. But people have found a case now or several. The Bacteria Flagellum

ch34f30.jpg


This bacteria propells itself using a tail that is connected to a rotary motor.

Now natural selection argues that if something was useless, it would be lost as the organism evolves. Now in the case of Bacteria Flagellum, did the tail come first or the rotary motor? If it was the tail, it would be useless without a rotary motor and should have been lost. If it was the rotary motor, it would have no purpose without the tail to proper itself.

Moreover delving deeper, the rotary motor has several parts. If you remove any one of the component it loses its function. How did these parts come into being while the previous ones may have been lying useless?

This shows, whenever the whole mechanism came into being, it came into being all at once.

Problem with Darwin was, he never went to the molecular level. His arguments were too much on the surface. His arguments were like a bird's beak is too big for this xyz purpose so it became smaller. We were apes, we lost hair, grew a larger brain and became human. This is not hard science by todays' standards, these are some very macro level observations. It was acceptable 150 years ago, today, not so much.

I believe evolution species and natural selection may be going on. But not at the level that Tyrannosaurus Rex of yesterday has evolved into my pet parrot today. Some will occur over a period of time through various mating patterns, maybe over time we'll all become white or all become black.

But there's no way you'll see the human species evolve as aquatic like mammals by mating with a dolphin. Even if tomorrow the world gets submerged under water and it is required of us to have good aquatic skills.

Also proponents of natural selection never explained how the first life came into being? All life consists of building blocks known as proteins, newer proteins, are also built by proteins. It begs the question where did the first protein come from?

Going further down, they are made of amino acids.

Going further down, amino acids base elements would be nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen and Carbon. Today in a controlled lab environment with all the right conditions, scientists are unable to recreate a protein with nothing but these base elements. Yes they can create proteins, using some other proteins, but never just from base elements. They reason is simple, genetic material is required in its creation. At the very least - the first protein ever, definitely came into existence all at once.

But I would concede that I cannot prove God made life only once you concede there are inconsistencies to saying that all complex life came into existence through random occurrences of natural selection. In some cases it is scientifically shown that there is "Intelligent Design" at play. Could be God, could be Isro's theory of Aliens seeding Earth. Scientifically speaking Isro's theory is more conceivable than natural selection.

Intelligent Design is the 30 year old new kid on the block. Just like the Theory of Evolution rendered creationism as a myth in the scientific community 50-75 odd years ago, Intelligent Design is gaining momentum and the time is not far when it too would force the theory of evolution to be known as the myth of evolution.

Lol.... what a kiddish post? this is what creationists bought up in famous Dover trial in US. But, if you don't know already, they were demolished by "real" scientists. In short, in this case, most of the proteins were there in other bacteria but acted as stationary "needle" used to inject whatever bacteria inject into a host. the new flagellum was evolved with simple addition of some more proteins that gave whole new use which were more suited for survival. In the trial they demonstrated this by a mouse trap. If you remove some par, the mouse rap may no work as mouse trap, but may work as a tie clip. So, you are wrong here, again (as if it is not obvious).. and before posting a full page rant, please do some basic research (aka google) and just do not simply cut paste from some dumb website.
 
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Aaaah the age old and much simpler question. Was chicken first or the egg?


Coming back to the tail and the motor question.

The problem with question is that it assumes the whole bacteria existed as it is now from day one.

So the motor must have been fully functional operational from day one and the tail must have been fully functional from day 1.

This is not the natural selection the way I understand.


natural selection is that the motor or the tail or both started out as much much simpler "muscles" in the Flagellum Release 1.0.

then there were several branches out of 1.0 that experimented with smaller "muscles" of all kinds. where tail was very different than what is today and the motor was much much simpler than what is today.


Over a long time, these simpler mechanisms of tail and motor evolved in unison to the current form.

Now that are mature, we cannot take first one out and wonder how the heck the second will work without the first.

hope this helps.

I get amazed when these people bring up same old debunked argument again and again in the hope that some how it will become true. See US Dover trial for this particular example. "Actual" scientist show how it evolved from a non-rotating flagellum which was used as a needle into a motor.. I think we are wasting time here!!!
 
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