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Oldest primate fossil yet found. It is a tiny Chinese Archicebus fossil

I do not need to....When humans and chimps are soo different, from the formation of brain, to our physical form....I dont think we should be termed under the same genus it causes complication...I believe we have similar genes with everything due a number of reasons,

Geez your knowledge in taxonomy is terrible.Humans and other great apes are not classified under same genus.We are only surviving species in our genus.Humans,orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos are all classified under same family.

only 4 nucleotides...how many different arrangements cane be possible? even then some arrangements account for the same protein, the redundancy aids in the difference and yet shows similarity at a different level!
we have things called post translation, RNA splicing, Epigenetics and what not to account for differences even if our genome is similar!

Point well taken,Especially the impact epigenetic processes in evolution are still not properly understood and its one of the hotly researched subject.Once we properly study that we may get better under standing of evolution happens at different levels.But I think its most important application lies in combating diseases.

and many other issues which do not make me agree to apes = humans...How come you do not counter these? Explain these terms?

I didn't say humans are equal to apes,I said humans are apes,Because we belong in a family(Hominoide) of Apes.We are one of the 5 surviving ape species in the planet.There were many other species in this family typical examples include Homo neanderthalensis,Homo floresiensis that survived till last ice age.

In terms of the taxonomy,Apes are Old World anthropoid mammals, more specifically a clade of tailless catarrhine primates, belonging to the biological superfamily Hominoidea.

Hominoidea contains two families of living (extant) species:

Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes.

Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos and humans. Alternatively, the hominidae family are collectively described as the great apes.There are two extant species in the orangutan genus (Pongo), two species in the gorilla genus, and a single extant species Homo sapiens in the human genus (Homo). Chimpanzees and bonobos are closely related to each other, and they represent the two species in the genus Pan.


I gave the example of arabidopsis when I saw you didnt understand it, I knew there is no point furthering!

You made absolutely no point with that.Now you blame me for not understanding it.


I do not remember you saying it but if you said it then why is this even being dragged? Same genes can even account for different proteins why? due to RNA splicing, methylation and whatnot! POST TRANSLATION!

Read my previous posts.Yeah alternative splicing mRNA.HIV virus's primary RNA transcript, can be alternatively spliced in multiple ways to produce over 40 different mRNAs.

and false positives also make scientists jump up and down with joy! and they end up publishing papers, writing in magazines and what makes me angry is they forget to mention, more research is necessary...only recently, I have seen scientists being modest enough to end that way...otherwise before it was I SAID SO...I FOUND IT...I THOUGHT IT THIS WAY SO IT MUST BE POSSIBLE!

Again Blah Blah Blah..If they don't publish papers,how will their work be subjected to peer review and greater amount of scrutiny.You are simply contradicting yourself here.


acknowledge their importance!

Of course I can.Every body does that.

a proven theory becomes a fact...otherwise it stays as a theory as it is never proven!

May for common men,But,Not for scientists.As far as they are considered Theories hold more importance than mere facts.That's why our science textbooks are full of theories not facts.

I refuted them as well! and brought my proof which you never acknowledged!

You misread my post and blabbered a lot about it.That's not refutation.Post some scientific journals that do contain proof refuting my argument.
 
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Oh pls,Drama Queen.I know what I am talking about.
How so, whats your qualification? We have alot of people who read 1 article and start jumping up and down before looking for the context....


Blah Blah.Again you are straying away from the point..Chromosomal fusion did happen in our ancestors, and evidence of it proves evolution.
A lot of things are claimed to have happened but they are neither happening now nor, at the same scale nor even yielding similar results....It only shows that the claims could be wrong, misinterpreted or even overly blown up out of excitement!


Utter ignorance,What are you even talking about.I am talking about chromosomal fusion that happened in an ancestor species that lived millions of years ago.The evidence of that fusion is still seem today in our chromosomes.Hence the evolution.We have also observed similar fusions in modern day humans.
You did not understand that somethings can happen and some may not...

You argued if chromosomes fused there will be no fetus again you've proven wrong.This is the evidence of evolution..
I am asking for evidence related to species jumping....like chromosome 14 and 15 moving around, fusing a bit does not make you jump species...


And you are blabbering all about things that have nothing to do with the discussion,What happened to this 44 chromosome man shows one way that the first step in this sort of change might have happened in our past.
Do you lack understanding??

1stly, it is nothing new Robertsonian translocation does happen.....however chromosome 2 which is the 1 that humans and ape differ in is not affected....

Mind you the article does say he has disadvantages, from physical fitness and has chances of loss of pregnancyfor females.

It is well-known that the fitness of rob translocation carries is reduced; in some rob translocations the risk of unbalanced offspring may exceed 20%. The homozygous state of such a rearrangment presumably leads to infertility
(Like I said before LOW VIABLE OFFSPRING...it is not a favourable mutation.... .......besides, does he look less of a human? Does he look like an ape? Nope!

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/techno...inese-archicebus-fossil-17.html#ixzz2WHVKphIE

If I am going to be spending 2-3 posts explaining to you what an article YOU posted says...It is best you dont post anything...


Obviously this is not a favorable mutation under any circumstances,Such translocations are incredibly rare. Except when the parents are related.
Not always due to related parents BUT due to related parents being CARRIERS of that gene....
Its been an established Inbreeding Common in Early Humans especially when they were undergoing population bottlenecks.
Yes...it is proposed...


Not related to these chromosmes.
Ok so you are interested in only chromosome 14 and 15? That has nothing to do with chimps mind you....

Read the article again.

The article says "both his chromosome 14s are stuck to his chromosome 15s" - meaning both his mom and his dad (46,XX,rob(14,15) and 46,XY,rob(14,15) had a Robertsonian Translocation which doesn't really result in the loss of any genetic material. The very small chance occurred which one sperm carrying the translocation chromosome fused with an oocyte carrying the other translocation chromosome.
carriers...

So the genotype of the dude is 44,XY,rob(14,15)(14,15), meaning he's normal because he technically has all the genomic information of a normal human.
He is normal as in no phenotypic problems but his sperms were not tested so we are not sure if he is sterile!

During a Robertsonian translocation, the participating chromosomes break at their centromeres and the long arms fuse to form a single chromosome with a single centromere. The short arms also join to form a reciprocal product, which, in the acrocentric chromosomes, typically contains nonessential genes and repetitive sequences such as nucleolar organizing regions, and is usually lost within a few cell divisions.
This is the DNA repair mechanism

Since Robertsonian translocation carriers have a balanced chromosomal complement, they are healthy and have a normal lifespan, and may be unaware of their unusual chromosome rearrangement. A Robertsonian translocation can be transmitted for many generations without detection. Robertsonian translocation carriers produce six kinds of gamete. One sixth of the gametes are normal, and lead to offspring with normal chromosomes. One sixth of the gametes contain the Robertsonian translocation, which is passed.
The remaining 4 types of gametes lead to offspring with monosomy or trisomy. Because of this, Robertsonian translocation carriers do have an increased risk of pregnancy loss. While a few babies with trisomy 13 or 21 will survive, those with trisomy
14, 15, or 22
usually miscarry in the first twelve weeks.
This shows reduced fertility ...NOT VIABLE OFFSPRING...

Now, kindly read before jumping to conclusions!


Long term isolation of a group of chimps who are homozygous for a particular Robertsonian translocation chromosome could
theoretically lead to the establishment of a new subspecies having a full genetic complement in 46 chromosomes.But I don't think chimps will live long enough see that happens.
Not sure if CHIMPS having a disorder in a certain chromosome would live....there are some sorts of mutations you can survive while others are fatal....likewise some kinds of chromosomal problems you are phenotypically fine, but might not be medically...or some mutations might just be silent

He is normal like any other human being except for may be reduced physical fitness.He may have health difficulties because of the history of consanguinity in his family history.But a homozygous Robertsonian translocation in itself may not any health issues.
I am not going to comment as I never did a case study on such a chromosomal problem...


Read the article again.He hasn't lost any genetic material,His chromosomes 14 and 15 from both parents fused During a Robertsonian translocation.It called homozygous Robertsonian translocation.he's normal because he technically has all the genomic information of a normal human.
By repeating something doesnt make it true...BTW, what you answered has nothing to do with what I had written..I was not talking about genetic loss...


Blah Blah,Nothing worth responding. You have a problem with semantics now or is the fact that you don't have anything else to write.
Of course not coz you can not stand critics while in Science we write articles with critics questions in mind....magazines do not really do that...and mind you even the author of the article wrote
Case Report: Potential Speciation in Humans Involving Robertsonian Translocations.
Potential unlike you who gets hyped and thinks every word is the solid and cant be changed!



Read the article agian.There are two centromeres in Chromosome 2 .But one is inactive.

I did read it...You read up transfusions of chromosomes and kindly stop quoting me if you have not done your readings...I am not your personal tutor to sit down with you and go through every article you get hyped about!

I don't have a crystal predicting future.I just imagine the one I prefer most.
Keep it in you imaginations

That's because you are not using a familiar terminology.
then tell me which class you are in so I would use APPROPRIATE terminologies for you!


That's why I called you a creationist and you got upset over that too.
whatever I am I do not label....
According Modern evolutionary synthesis The distinction between micro- and macroevolution is not a fundamental one – the only difference between them is of time and scale.Macro evolution is nothing but an extrapolation and magnification of the events that take place within populations and species...it is misleading to make a distinction between the causes of micro- and macroevolution.How ever you creationist often misrepresent both these terms in order to make it look like they entirely different things.
Thank you for defining the terms...I never said anything different....Since we do not have simulation models nor proofs to extrapolate the time scale, hence, I always use the word blow up or out of proportion which you seem to have missed....


We all know that.
But it seems not to have been digested


Why get upset??Even you know that is a fact.
Because you know nothing but live on assumptions...
 
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Human Evolution? - The Compelling Genetic & Fossil Evidence For Adam and Eve - Dr. Fazale Rana - YouTube


That in fact applies to CreatorLessevolutionists. There isn't an iota of proof that proves transformation from one being to another. Homology is NO proof. Ford, Honda, Toyota all have homologous structures & all are designed. Various aeroplanes have homologies & all are created.

If Homology was proof of spontaneous-CreatorLess-evolution, then fork must have evolved from spoon, spork being intermediary.
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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12184234/img/Anonymous/Evolution-ofFork.jpg
Evolution-ofFork.jpg

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http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260312/img/Anonymous/Fork-Evolution.jpg
Fork-Evolution.jpg

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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260319/img/Anonymous/Devolution.jpg
Devolution.jpg

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http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260329/img/Anonymous/Devolution2.jpg
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http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260335/img/Anonymous/Devolution3.jpg
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http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13260366/img/Anonymous/Atheism.jpg
Atheism.jpg

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If CreatorLess-Spontaneous-evolution & natural selection were true, then there won't be any fried chicken...

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg
224523_422149884511372_1051024222_n.jpg



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Q:52:35-36: Were they created of nothing, or were they the creators (of themselves)? (35) Or did they create the skies and the earth? Rather they are not certain. (36)

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When some one talks of "Evolution" they actually mean "Spontaneous Evolution", "Creator-Less Evolution" through series of "random chance" processes; helped by "Natural Selection". This is NOT supported by ANY evidence discovered so far. If evolution(spontaneous) was true, there must have been thousands of minute changes observed; say between monkey-like alleged ancestors & humans. All we see is SUDDEN emergence of difference species without any evidence of thousands of gradual transformations. The best they could come up with was resemblances from species to species; which is basically saying that fork evolved from spoon bcoz they resemble. And we know it is NOT true. Both were designed & resemblances only means that they have similar use. Different tea-cups in my cupboard have resemblances too, again bcoz of similar use. Same with boats all designed to sail on water; hence the resemblances in shape. Airplanes ALL built to fly in air; hence ALL have wings & rudder. All these resemblances were chosen by designers bcoz they served the purpose the best. Other thing evolutionists talk of are DNA changes;; established science tells us that DNA only deteriorates under natural conditions.That's the reason increasing maternal age is associated with rise in birth defects in babies, like Down's syndrome.


ONLY "controlled" manipulation of DNA results in improved & added features. Like insulin gene added to bacterial DNA to make it produce insulin for diabetes patients. This is done in "controlled" way by scientists. Similarly evolution if happened was a "CONTROLLED" evolution, NOT a spontaneous one.



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1430+ years ago this book was written down. It describes event in the lines of Big-Bang theory & evolutionary concept of life-forms starting in water.

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Quran:21:30:- Do not the Unbelievers see that the SKIES AND THE EARTH WERE JOINED TOGETHER as one unit, before We parted them? (***Big Bang Theory***) We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (***just like evolution teaches that life & early beings started in water then later came to land***)

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51:47:-With the power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of Space.(other translation reads “expanding universe”)

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/papers/cosmo.html

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Q:79.30 . And the Earth, after that, He made it egg-shaped.

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Q:39.5:He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His laws of physics He invented), each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power― He Who forgives again and again?

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Q:24:45:-And God has created every animal from water(***As evolutionary theory says life started in water bodies***)...



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Why aren't we told EVERYTHING in detail??? Bcoz that would nullify the very purpose of creation of mankind. We've been tasked to "DISCOVER"; put the intellect we`re given to some use to discover CREATOR thru His creation. appreciate Him, recognize Him, & His exalted stature. And give Him due respect.

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Quran:29:19-20:-Do they not see how God begins the Creation, then repeats it? That is easy for God (to do). Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He began the Creation.

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14:19:God hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose?

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40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.



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Human are NOT the end point of the CONTROLLED-evolutionary process; rather a separate creation. Asexual reproduction in lower beings would have continued for it's simplicity if spontaneous-evolution was true. Emergence of 2 genders is contrary to Natural Selection bcoz nature would have eliminated any being that evolved WITHOUT ability to beget. So all males would have been dropped out :) Also presence of variety of races & languages goes against spontaneous-evolution:-

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30:21:-Among His Signs is this that He created you from dust; and then Behold ye are men scattered (far and wide)! (20) And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put affection between you; verily in that are Signs for those who reflect (ponder).

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30:22:- And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for men of knowledge.

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35:11:- God created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (the male and female). No female beareth or bringeth forth but He has knowledge of it. And no-one groweth old who groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book, Lo! that is easy for God.

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32:7-9:-He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He began the creation of man with clay (7) And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: (8) But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (9)

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6:2:-He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt

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15:26:- We created man from sounding (potter's) clay, from mud moulded into shape;

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18:37:- His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a drop (of seed), then fashioned thee into a man?

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55:14:- He created man of sounding clay (like the potter's),

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Embryological stages described in a non-technical layman terminology:-

At " leech-like" stage details of embryo is NOT visible to naked eye, it's ONLY the size of a pin-head, a microscope & staining techniques r needed to see the details. Which were NOT there 1400+years ago. Even by 8th week when organogenesis is complete, fetus is just 1.5 cm.

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71:14:-Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?

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40:67:- It is He Who has created you from dust, then from a drop, then from a leech-like (fetus); then does He get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old― though of you there are some who die before;― and lets you reach a Term appointed: in order that ye may learn WISDOM.

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23.12-14 We created the human being from a product of wet earth; (12)

Then, We placed it as a nutfah (fertilized egg) in a safe (deep) lodging; (13)

Then, We created the nutfah into an alaqa (leech-like fetus).

Then, We created the alaqa into mudghah (a little lump, like a chewed substance).

Then, We created the mudghah into bones. (cartilage bones starts to form in week-5, ossification starts in week-6)

Then, We clothed the bones with flesh. (Muscle start to condense aroun6 bones in week-7)

Then, We produced it (the human being) as another creation.

So blessed be God, the Best of creators! (14)

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82:7-8:- Who created thee, then fashioned, then proportioned thee.(7) Into whatsoever form He will, He casteth thee. (8)



(Earliest conception looks nothing like human; then it takes human form & then some appendages/viscera grow bigger & some grow shorter i.e proportioned.)

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7:11:- It is We who created you and gave you shape;

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Embryological location of origin of gonads (Testes & Ovaries):-



http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445837/img/Anonymous/Q.86-5---7.jpg

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In picture below the whitish colored Testes DESCENDING(Proceeds from) after it's formation in chest region (between ribs & spine)



http://www.netterimages.com/images/vpv/000/000/005/5106-0550x0475.jpg



Testes on 8 weeks>>>11 weeks>>>4 lunar months>>>8 lunar months...





Though Mesonephros originates in embryos chest region, this photo shows testes little below ribcage bcoz, as baby's abdomen grows long, a rope (Gubernaculum) attached to testes doesn't grow so it pulls testes down & testes ends up in abdomen region. Process of baby's growth continues while that rope stays the same length..... so testes keeps coming down & down until it ends up in scrotum.





Ovaries go through same descend but stop their journey inside pelvis

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Embryological development of limbs (Upper & Lower):-

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http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11445981/img/Anonymous/Quran.23.14.jpg

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Medscape: Medscape Access



I quote:-

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The limb bud continues to grow outward from the ventral wall, and at day 32 it develops a somewhat flattened, paddle-shaped hand plate (8-mm crown-to-rump length). During the fifth week, differentiating mesenchymal cells condense in a proximal-to-distal fashion to form blastemas, which eventually develop into cartilaginous models of, ultimately, the bones of the upper extremity. At this time, nerve ingrowth from the rami of the spinal cord also occurs proximally. By day 41, the mesenchyme condenses within the hand plate to delineate digital rays, beginning with the border rays. During the sixth week, hyaline cartilage models of the proximal bones of the extremity are formed.



In the seventh week, the upper extremity continues outgrowth and rotates 90° so that the elbows project posteriorly and the developing hands lie on the anterior thorax. At this time, the cartilaginous models of the proximal bones are undergoing ossification at ossification centers within the diaphysis of each model. Mesenchymal cells derived from the dermomyotome condense within connective tissue (mesenchymal) scaffolds to form 2 common muscle masses. They are immediately penetrated by the spinal nerves. These dorsal and ventral common muscle masses split later to form the muscles of the extensor and flexor compartments, respectively.

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Re-making of a thing already should be easier than making it first time:-

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21:47:We shall set up scales of justice for the day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least. And if there be the weight of a mustard seed(of good or bad deed), We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.

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50:15:-Were We then weary with the first Creation, that they should be in confused doubt about a new Creation? (resurrection).

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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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13:39-41:- Thy duty is to make (the Message) reach them: it is Our part to call them to account. (40) See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?(receding continents!!!)

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21:44:see they not that we gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?

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Current sea level rise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Rise in sea level can

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Continental U.S. glaciers receding at alarming rate - CBS News

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Arctic sea ice shrinks to smallest extent ever recorded | Environment | guardian.co.uk



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Biology books even to date teach some lies; following picture was in my biology book, & is in books all over the world. This is a fake drawing by Ernst Haeckel proven to be a fraud more than a century ago (first time in 1874) but for some reason they liked to keep this fraud in books to brain-wash students. Top row is fake pictures by Haeckel & bottom row is what they actually look like at that particular stage.

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http://truedino.com/embryo2.jpg



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17:49-51:- They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" (49) Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron, (50) "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up)--(yet shall ye be raised up)!" Then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say "When will that be?" Say "May be it will be quite soon! (51)

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14:19:- Beholdest thou not that Allah hath created the heavens and the earth with a purpose? If He willed He would make you pass away and bring a creation new.
 
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Lol.... who ever is the speaker, he got no fcking clue of what is M-Eve and Y-Adam. For starters, there is 700 yr gap between them and m-eve came first!!. M-eve is "most common" maternal ancestor. This means, she is the most recent female who had continuous female child (she had daughter, at-least one of her daughter had daughter etc etc). So, M-eve also had a mother. Human critical population is estimated to be 10,000 (that means human population never got below this). This is same for Y-Adam too. that person is most recent to have continuous male child linage. That is why scientist desist from using eve and adam name because that is misnomer. But creationists have latched on to this because they go no clue what scientists are talking about.
 
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