Officers Detained at Dulles, Call off visit

[MastanKhan]

But experience or not, you don't like what is being expressed and so somehow it's wrong? is that a reasonable position?

Hi,

Absolutely it is wrong---when you have your bread and butter hand out in the open with palm up and the first and foremost help is delivered by the one you so dislike---then there is a problem with your way of thinking.

When the U S is the major saviour in chief in this moment of great crisis and right now when he has this life line attached to the dying pakistani population---your statements reeks of enemy propaganda.

It is not a matter of what is being expressed---it is a matter of when it is being expressed and how it is being expressed. It is a matter of what you want to gain out of it at this time of maximum calamity----what is your reasoning of spreading venom at this crucial stage---what is making you spread this hate when hundreds of thousands of weak and starving pakistanis are dependant on the american flood relief aid.

You have taken a 180 deg turn in your stance from where you used to stand----before your vacation---if you are who you claim to be---why don't you tell us what you have gone through to make this about face.

 

[muse]

Presumably they were only detained long enough to flip their passports and get them confirmed by the Pakistani consul.)

If that floats your boat, it's ok with me. But here's how the delegation responded, perhaps MK may not like it but there you have it:

Members of the delegation of about eight officers, led by a two-star general, were offended by their treatment and canceled the meeting at Central Command

,


I would just point out that Pakistan's focus is misplaced, it's real enemy is the US, and not India. US hope to trap Pakistan in Afghanistan and will justify the expansion of it's military operation into Pakistan - I think this eventuality will be reality a time frame of less than 10 years - unless Pakistan acts at the earliest to preserve it independence and seeks and does what is required to gain membership in the SCO.

 

[MastanKhan]

I would just point out that Pakistan's focus is misplaced, it's real enemy is the US, and not India. US hope to trap Pakistan in Afghanistan and will justify the expansion of it's military operation into Pakistan - I think this eventuality will be reality a time frame of less than 10 years - unless Pakistan acts at the earliest to preserve it independence and seeks and does what is required to gain membership in the SCO.

Hi,

If such is the case then you need to confront the strategists of pak millitary----it was their job to know what the U S is going to do once it entered afg----they should have forced the issue on pak govt---which was millitary as well and made them understand the level of threat---.

They should have worked harder at nabbing Bin laden in afg----if they didnot then they had the oppurtunity at tora bora---.

If there is any fault---then it lies at the doorstep of the pak millitary
and their analysts---.

Seems like you are just lobbing stuff in the air that some of it might take the wind and fly for some time.

Please come up with something fresh----this drum has been beat up real real bad.

 

[Mogambo]

It it anything to do with Govt. of Afghanistan's plea that US should not allow Pakistani army officials in US????????

 

[SQ8]

US this.. US that..
want to make a statement, tell those Chinooks, Blackhawks and hundreds of US troops to get lost.. and throw the MRE's back.. kill those who even ddared touched the US aid..

Otherwise, stop complaining.. and realize that right now.. You need the United States.. more than they need you.
What is also needed.. is that the government(whatever it is that calls itself that).. should not bend over backwards to accommodate the US. It can be done with mutual respect.. and a little less emotional tirades.

and.. MK.. arent we being judgmental this month

 

[Mogambo]

ISI should Bitchslap them.......it's about time any of the NATO tankers didn't blow up.

Don't you over estimate yourself?

 

[Nahraf]

All the US personnel visiting Pakistan should be strip searched in airports. We also have US Black-Ops committing terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[Thomas]

curious, doesn't Pakistan have a special passport for those traveling on official state business? Seems to me that would cut out many problems. I know the U.S. Military uses them. And other countries as well.

 

[Solomon2]

curious, doesn't Pakistan have a special passport for those traveling on official state business? Seems to me that would cut out many problems. I know the U.S. Military uses them.

Would that make a difference? I've seen U.S. diplomats ("red card" passports) stopped at Customs at Dulles for violations before. ("Eat that apple or dump it in the trash!")

What is interesting is the "offense" taken by the Pakistanis. It's probably a form of culture shock. High-ranking Pakistani officials are treated with greater courtesy than the hoi polloi at home; they expect to be able to bend rules and do what they want. They come to America and BAM! - even a four-star U.S. general has to obey the rules, for here generals are creatures of the state; in Pakistan, the state is a creature of the generals.

 

[Peregrine]

curious, doesn't Pakistan have a special passport for those traveling on official state business? Seems to me that would cut out many problems. I know the U.S. Military uses them. And other countries as well.

Pakistani army officers usually travel on "official passports" or "diplomatic passports"

The red one is diplomatic

blue is official

Green one is Ordinary passport

 

[sparklingway]

curious, doesn't Pakistan have a special passport for those traveling on official state business? Seems to me that would cut out many problems. I know the U.S. Military uses them. And other countries as well.

We have an official passport:-

The website of the Directorate General of Immigration & Passports says :-

Official passports are issued to Pakistani Nationals who are Senators, MNAs, Provincial Ministers, Judges of the Supreme/High Courts, Officers serving with the Governments proceeding abroad on official assignments etc. in pursuance of Para-9 of Passport & Visa Manual, 2006.

Since the number of official passports is quite large (53,000 in 07-08), then it must be issued to armed forces personnel. Perhaps a serving one can let us know.

I'm sure about one thing though, serving personnel are required to be in uniform for passport pictures but last year I saw one wearing a suit and that got me confused.

Nonetheless, they are issued official passports.

 

[r3alist]

Great stuff - These Pakistani officers SHOULD spread the word about the US has become to others - and they in turn should make it known that military to military relations between Pakistan and US are a great danger to the Pakistani state - it is not required, the US and Pakistan have nothng to offer each other, in fact, soon, in less than 10 years, unless Pakistan takes an independent direction, the US will be involved in armed aggression against Pakistan.

While our forum members and some in the Pakistan armed forces continue to see the Indian as a threat, the real threat has been and will be, the US.

Teacup, tey, no big deal - but then again, what is a big deal to you guys? Have any US officers been treated in that manner in Pakistan? See, that's why I argue that this is such a dysfunctional and absurd relationship, it's entirely one sided, for both sides, for the Pakistanis, it's free goodies for their armed forces and they then half heartedly commit Pakistan into policies that the population certainly do not support, the US types think the Pakistanis are on board in a fundamental way, and then get burnt when they realize that Pakistanis had no intention of signing up in the manner the US types thought the Pakistanis had. Both sides start with the intention of burning the other, what the heck kind of relationship is that? .

you have changed your tune...??

 

[gubbi]

Pakistani army officers usually travel on "official passports" or "diplomatic passports"

The red one is diplomatic

blue is official

Green one is Ordinary passport

Military officials while carrying Official passports are not exempt from Diplomatic immunity. Diplomatic passports are issued only to civilians, IIRC, and not to military officials. Correct me if I am wrong. I dont know what passports do military attaches carry.
So if anyone made an inappropriate comment, the US authorities will pull them up. Simple.
Now, people with diplomatic passports are a different fish altogether. One can literally get away with murder with diplomatic immunity!

 

[r3alist]

You have taken a 180 deg turn in your stance from where you used to stand----before your vacation---if you are who you claim to be---why don't you tell us what you have gone through to make this about face.

interesting questions, maybe for another thread

i remember muse was an advocate for blackwater in pakistan, such was his stance on the WoT, i wonder what has made him change, its interesting because he is normally very forthright and colourful in his views, what has prompted him to take a 180 u-turn?

 

[Peregrine]

Military officials while carrying Official passports are not exempt from Diplomatic immunity. Diplomatic passports are issued only to civilians, IIRC, and not to military officials. Correct me if I am wrong. I dont know what passports do military attaches carry.
So if anyone made an inappropriate comment, the US authorities will pull them up. Simple.
Now, people with diplomatic passports are a different fish altogether. One can literally get away with murder with diplomatic immunity!

Nah some army officers do carry diplomatic passports, and they are not necessarily the defense attaches. in short you will NOT find every info on internet