Not Shinkansen ? India plans high-speed rail project with China

[surya kiran]

I don't think so, right now Indian engineering companies have ZERO experience to build a high-speed railway, if not India won't need China there to build this line. If the deal done, Chinese companies will come and hire local labors in India but main engineering still built by Chinese workers, coz this's a big railway project and China must make sure the good quality of CRH.

After that if Indian learn building experiences and enough techs, India can start ur high-speed railway project that's not Chinese business.

If India pay money or mineral exchange to China, of course Chinese will provide a good quality engineering project to the price, finish it on schedule and no any delay.

There is nothing wrong in taking Chinese help to build high speed railways. Where you are mistaken is that all the engineers will be Chinese. You will need to tie-up with an Indian partner. Somebody like an L&T or Reliance to take forward the project. They have the expertise to turn something around like this. While Chinese engineers will be involved, I do not see them being involved the same way they would in Africa.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

You guys can't even afford the first down payment on the Rafale. Just the initial order alone.

India’s $11 Billion Rafale Jet Deal Delayed Amid Budget Crunch - Bloomberg

You keep delaying signing the deal, because you run out of money in your budget. It's always "next year".

Yeah then don't sign the deal with us. Don't come begging us for your deal on the high speed train and pander us with 'ooh but we will give you this and that and this and that the Japanese won't give you and so on'...

 

[surya kiran]

32 billion is just the entry price。

320 billion is the figure I am looking for over the life of this project with future revenues from components、maintenances、overhauls、system upgrades、technical services、replacement train sets and all that、

Nope. Thats not how it works here. Typically you would need to partner an Indian company, which will take over what you are talking about.

 

[he-man]

Genius, you use the same benchmark while comparison. Hence the selection of IMF number or WB number instead of governmental figures. Hence, selection of figures I used.

Based on your logic inflation alone accounts for GDP growth. Best of luck with that. There is also something called real GDP and PPP. Check how the growth is in that for inflation adjustment. Real GDP for India estimate is a at above 5% for 2014.

BUt, coming back to the problem. And do not deviate by bringing in India.

YOUR CLAIM.
250 bn USD to 1 Trillion USD. What will be estimated inflation for you to reach that, based on your logic?

Btw, you seem quiet knowledgable. What is your background in ? Economics or Mathematics?

He is a prodigy,a natural..............

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yeah then don't sign the deal with us. Don't come begging us for your deal on the high speed train and pander us with 'ooh but we will give you this and that and this and that the Japanese won't give you and so on'...

It would be funny if India on a tight budget could still give out $32 billion to us (not including all the billions we get from India's huge trade deficit to us every year).

While delaying the Rafale deal again due to "no money in the budget".

That would be great business for us.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

It would be funny if India on a tight budget could still give out $32 billion to us (not including all the billions we get from India's huge trade deficit to us every year).

While delaying the Rafale deal again due to "no money in the budget".

That would be great business for us.

This isn't the best way to beg us for our business . Try again, try to do better

 

[Bombaywalla]

Seems like you have a serious comprehension issue or too embarrassed to acknowldledge you were wrong..why dont you stop posting for today before prooving yourself a bigger idiot than you already are? Start fresh tomorrow..

... or just not post at all, eh?

 

[anant_s]

Absolutely, these trains will have a top speed of 300 kmph, average speed will probably be below that, we already have trains running at 140 or 160 kmph and engines capable of running at 225 kmph. Apart from that we have our low-cost airlines, why do we need to spend a whooping $32 bn on a passenger train NOW when we have other far more important priorities!! Rather, we can spend the money on dedicated freight corridors, or upgrade our old lines in important routes to run our own trains at 225 kmph! @anant_s @gslv mk3 what do you think?

As of now the priority for IR is to quickly develop Dedicated Freight corridors on East and West and then some more are on anvil.
IRs theory is that it wants to move its freight on dedicated new lines that will automatically remove bottleneck for allowing faster movement of passenger trains upto 130kh for normal and upto 160 for Express and 200 for LHB coach Rajdhani/Duronto/Shatabdi.
Also it is a well known fact that there always a negative return on equity on dedicated Passenger rail lines so the ideal way is to move freight to dedicated lines and free and then improve existing network for passenger traffic.
This will allow some inherent benefits such as larger moving envelope (geometric size of train allowed on rail line), larger axle load, longer loop sections and offcourse faster average speed owing to no competition for right of way by passenger traffic.
As far as high speed network for trains in India is concerned i don't see more than 5-6 isolated sections in next decade or so.

 

[dray]

This self proclaimed Mao forgets that they were getting assistance for HSR from companies like Philips..

And Hitachi and many others.....

 

[dray]

32 billion is just the entry price。

320 billion is the figure I am looking for over the life of this project with future revenues from components、maintenances、overhauls、system upgrades、technical services、replacement train sets and all that、

All will be provided by us only, even if chinese get the deal, we don't work in the way you are imagining.

But you are right in one point, those expenses will be pretty high if it is chinese, so better to avoid that.

 

[anant_s]

India is the one begging here.

Like I said, if India could do it themselves, they wouldn't ask China to do it for them.

Thats an objectionable language.
China is one of the participating nations in the High speed network contract and like all contract it'll be paid for it rather than an act of charity.
Its an open bidding process in which European consortium, Japan, South Korea and China are participating. Lets see if China outbids others.

 

[he-man]

As of now the priority for IR is to quickly develop Dedicated Freight corridors on East and West and then some more are on anvil.
IRs theory is that it wants to move its freight on dedicated new lines that will automatically remove bottleneck for allowing faster movement of passenger trains upto 130kh for normal and upto 160 for Express and 200 for LHB coach Rajdhani/Duronto/Shatabdi.
Also it is a well known fact that there always a negative return on equity on dedicated Passenger rail lines so the ideal way is to move freight to dedicated lines and free and then improve existing network for passenger traffic.
This will allow some inherent benefits such as larger moving envelope (geometric size of train allowed on rail line), larger axle load, longer loop sections and offcourse faster average speed owing to no competition for right of way by passenger traffic.
As far as high speed network for trains in India is concerned i don't see more than 5-6 isolated sections in next decade or so.

The problem is we don't have funds to do it ourselves,,,with contracts awarded to chinese we will get easy loans too.
Plus of course they have much more expertise.

 

[anant_s]

The problem is we don't have funds to do it ourselves,,,with contracts awarded to chinese we will get easy loans too.
Plus of course they have much more expertise.

Not really Praaji.
As far as high speed network is concerned, nobody has more expertise than France (SNCF's TGV network) and JRs Shinkansen network. Till date (in a period of approximately 40 years of operation) there hasn't been one accident owing to a technical fault, that tells how matured the technology is. China has the largest Hi Speed network but there have been accidents. So if we talk of expertise, we know who the champions are.
secondly as far as funding is concerned, Japan is providing expertise and financing for Western Dedicated Freight Corridor and with recent visit of PM to Japan, similar offer could be in line for HST in India.

We do have options and considering India is one the biggest rail market in the world, we can expect good things as nobody is willing to loose this advantage in India.

 

[he-man]

Not really Praaji.
As far as high speed network is concerned, nobody has more expertise than France (SNCF's TGV network) and JRs Shinkansen network. Till date (in a period of approximately 40 years of operation) there hasn't been one accident owing to a technical fault, that tells how matured the technology is. China has the largest Hi Speed network but there have been accidents. So if we talk of expertise, we know who the champions are.
secondly as far as funding is concerned, Japan is providing expertise and financing for Western Dedicated Freight Corridor and with recent visit of PM to Japan, similar offer could be in line for HST in India.
View attachment 157029
We do have options and considering India is one the biggest rail market in the world, we can expect good things as nobody is willing to loose this advantage in India.
View attachment 157028

1)French are too costly
2)Japan is providing limited finance while we need money from all the sources we can get
3)Chinese are the cheapest and have a proven technology so no need to be sceptical and afraid

4)Lets admit it,we cannot do it ourselves and need help from where ever it comes

 

[Sanchez]

It would be funny if India on a tight budget could still give out $32 billion to us (not including all the billions we get from India's huge trade deficit to us every year).

While delaying the Rafale deal again due to "no money in the budget".

That would be great business for us.

Japan's bid for Indian high speed train project is three times more expensive than China's, and yet Japanese could only offer a tech of 250km/hr rail system. Indians actually deserve to have Japan...