North Korean Stand Off With the US & S.Korea: News and Updates

[ViXuyen]

If China nukes Japan; all of you can bet your life that no U.S President is going to get 300 millions American killed because he wants to nuke China for the Japanese.

The U.S wil nuke China if China launches a nuke at New York or Washington D.C but you can bet that no sane U.S President is going to allow 300 millions American getting vaporized because he wants to retaliate against China on behalf of the Japanese; hence prompting the Chinese to launch 3000 nukes at the U.S. No sane American would allow themselves getting nuked because he wants to protect his "ally" and you can mark my words for it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

If China nukes Japan; all of you can bet your life that no U.S President is going to get 300 millions American killed because he wants to nuke China for the Japanese.

The U.S wil nuke China if China launches a nuke at New York or Washington D.C but you can bet that no sane U.S President is going to allow 300 millions American getting vaporized because he wants to retaliate against China on behalf of the Japanese; hence prompting the Chinese to launch 3000 nukes at the U.S. No sane American would allow themselves getting nuked because he wants to protect his "ally" and you can mark my words for it.

US doesn't want to lose Japan as an ally, but she definitely won't risk her own life for Japan.

That's why US is telling to those right-wing Nippons not to repeatedly step on China's redline, otherwise she cannot save Japan from China's wrath.

US wants to weaken China by stirring up more tension, but not the way that leads an enraged China to take on Japan directly.

 

[gambit]

If China nukes Japan; all of you can bet your life that no U.S President is going to get 300 millions American killed because he wants to nuke China for the Japanese.

The U.S wil nuke China if China launches a nuke at New York or Washington D.C but you can bet that no sane U.S President is going to allow 300 millions American getting vaporized because he wants to retaliate against China on behalf of the Japanese; hence prompting the Chinese to launch 3000 nukes at the U.S. No sane American would allow themselves getting nuked because he wants to protect his "ally" and you can mark my words for it.

So you are GAMBLING on the idea that China can act the nuclear bully and everyone will cave. I will be as simplistic as your mind is: If that is true, then China would have 'nuked' South Korea and Japan a long time ago.

 

[anon45]

China's strategic interests after second Korean War

Israel is currently annexing Palestinian West Bank land, Russia has annexed 20% of Georgia, and NATO had indirectly annexed Serbian land by carving out Kosovo into an independent state.

Hence, as a matter of first principle, let's acknowledge that borders shift and China has an equal right to annex territory.

There are only a few rational choices for a post-war Korean peninsula.

1. After damage to both North and South Korea, let's restore the status quo. This is a terrible idea. China will have to provide even more food and energy aid (currently 45% and 90% respectively; see The China-North Korea Relationship - Council on Foreign Relations) to keep North Korea functioning.

If North Korea screws it up again (Korean War 1950-1953, Second Korean War 2013-), China should basically "fire" the North Korean leadership. If you North Koreans are incapable of governing North Korea competently then we Chinese will do it ourselves.

2. The minimum outcome is a Chinese annexation of North Korea. Unnamed Sweeper Monk's proposal to divide North Korea with the United States/South Korea is unacceptable. His proposal stems from a position of weakness. China is the supreme Asian continental power and it will negotiate from a position of strength.

If South Korea is sufficiently damaged from North Korean atomic blasts then China should strongly consider annexing the entire Korean peninsula. At a minimum, China should threaten to annex South Korea if the United States refuses to go along with Chinese annexation of North Korea.

After the annexation of North Korea, the people of North Korea may choose to remain and become citizens of China. This is workable, because there are only a minuscule number of North Koreans at 24 million. Alternatively, North Koreans will be permitted to move permanently to South Korea if they choose.

3. Korean unification will not be permitted. There are twice as many South Koreans as North Koreans. Any unified Korea will bring the U.S. Army to the Yalu River. Unlike Gorbachev and NATO's betrayed promise not to extend its membership to the border of Russia, Chinese are not dumb enough to fall for vacuous Western promises.

In conclusion, it should be obvious that Chinese annexation of North Korea and possibly South Korea is the only viable outcome.

Delusions of grandeur aside Martian, explain what possible benefit China would gain from annexing not just a North Korea, whose economy is non-existent, but a nuked South Korea with a shattered economy?

Lets ignore that North Korea nuking South Korea would be the worst case nightmare for China in and of itself.

Financially, Domestically, and Internationally all of this sounds very bad. Why do you think China hasn't annexed North Korea earlier and the South has given the North so much leeway in the past?

No one wants to deal with it, the costs will be exorbitant for nebulous gain.

And no, no one but the most deluded will believe North Korea is an integral part of China.

 

[Martian2]

Delusions of grandeur aside Martian, explain what possible benefit China would gain from annexing not just a North Korea, whose economy is non-existent, but a nuked South Korea with a shattered economy?

Lets ignore that North Korea nuking South Korea would be the worst case nightmare for China in and of itself.

Financially, Domestically, and Internationally all of this sounds very bad. Why do you think China hasn't annexed North Korea earlier and the South has given the North so much leeway in the past?

No one wants to deal with it, the costs will be exorbitant for nebulous gain.

And no, no one but the most deluded will believe North Korea is an integral part of China.

China's annexation of Korea will be similar to the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959

Isn't the benefit obvious?

The United State's pivot to Asia is intended to constrain China's rise. The strategic goal of the United States is to extend U.S. military power to the Yalu River.

The U.S. has already succeeded in extending NATO military power to Poland and the Baltic States. Gorbachev was a fool. Chinese are different. Chinese understand strategy and behave proactively.

Instead of waiting for Korean unification (e.g. an extension of American military power via its South Korean proxy), any competent Chinese general would gain control of North Korean territory and South Korea too if possible.

This is elementary geostrategy. Expand your buffer zone to keep your enemy further away.

Also, Chinese control of the North Korean coastline will allow China to station its radars along the shore. This will extend the range of Chinese ASBM and cruise missiles deep into the Sea of Japan.

Annexing North (and South) Korea brings immeasurable military benefits to China. The benefits are similar to the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959.

 

[jhungary]

I wonder if getting out of that treaty might make NK desperate. This would be especially true if they feel they're the only ones up against the west/SK/JP. At the moment, they have they've talked about reopening their reactor but I haven't seen any official confirmation. But that may be an example of how they may push it to that point. The last thing anyone, including China, would want is a mad man with larger and more nukes at her border. Who knows, they may eventually point that towards Beijing. It's one thing to have a dog on a leash, it's another thing when the dog grows up and is constantly at your side. Discipline becomes more problematic.

This may be a long shot but NK is ruled by a young hot-headed that probably feels he needs to prove himself and maybe even set himself higher than his father. People like that play on ego because they feel they're the most powerful. China and the west should play on that and maybe try to get him to see the benefits of developing economically and possibly opening up to the world. The more that would happen, the less likely someone would throw away all that hard work.That's the soft approach. The hard approach doesn't seem to work all that well.

I think China should make it crystal clear that they would only step in in a defensive capacity. It does stipulate in the treaty that they generally recognize reunification via peaceful means. The game would keep playing but the ball would be in NK's court.

Maybe I'm a wishful thinker.

Another option is for China to get involved by herself by military action against NK and install someone less likely to bite back. That, of course, presents its own precarious difficulties.

Having the bomb is a double edged sword. Help someone to have them is a whole other ball game.
Nuclear bomb do not have an IFF system, they kills regardlessly. This word is very true, NK have the bomb turn on US now, that does not mean they cannot have them turn on to China in the future.

China either need to use their influence to have NK backdown or they need to use force to make NK compile to Chinese demand. Bear in mind China is right next to NK. if NK did anything stupid, China have no other way but have to take consequence as well. Problem is, are Chinese still want to bleed for their North Korean Breathen or times has change and the Kim's regime simply need to take down??

 

[gpit]

金正恩 just farted.

We only need to open the window for a few minutes to let the smell go out.

May be. May be not.

But US and its slave S. Korea are no less bellicose, if not more so.

How could any nation tolerate the fact that, on yearly basis, hostile forces simulate first nuclear strike and invasion of the nation on its boarder.

Not US, not China, not any other nation.

Check out this thread: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...caling-back-show-force-korea.html#post4126288


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Is China bonkers then you brainwashed western fools?

China is doing 100% right thing supporting NK because it doesnt want the US to come near it and bully it just like it did in the Middle East for oil.

I am 100% right when I say this - that the US wants countries to go backwards and not forwards and in order to do this plays dirty politics. Ahmedinejad is doing the same, why should it give in to US? Who is US or what is it? "God"?

Mind you, if US wasn't involved playing dirty games as usual Kim would not in a million years mentioned to attack US or its bases. Why should the US have bases in East Asia or anywhere else in the world? Does Iran or any other country have such bases dotted all over the world? NO!

The US asks for trouble and provokes.

Obama hears you

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...caling-back-show-force-korea.html#post4126288

 

[gpit]

China´s leadership is surprisingly passive. Mr Xi paid first visits to Russia and some Africian countries, while the fire broke out next to the border.

Your Viets better be grateful to be neighbor with such a benevolent country.

But once China gets annoyed, it strikes back deadly and relentlessly. History shows this as back as a few hundreds BC when Han Dynasty chased out the Huns and controlled current Xinjiang and part of Kyrgyzstan.

 

[gpit]

The USAF does not talk. We have experience the PLAAF can only dream of. Heck, we have training the PLAAF can only dream of. So whose talk is really cheap here? YOURS.

"The USAF does not talk".

Right, USAFpulls back! As a few of wise of us know we (US and S.K.) are the provocative ones and, when China mobilized, we are not prepared: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-brief-u-s-scaling-back-show-force-korea.html

And I think that one thing that has been vastly underreported in the U.S. media is the fact that one of the responses that the U.S. probably wasn’t entirely prepared for was the fact that China was amassing forces, military forces, and personnel, vehicles, etc., along the North Korea-China border.

...

And, you know, I think that if you think about a kind of parallel circumstance—and I think it’s unimaginable for us in the United States to think of this—if you could just imagine, for example, Mexico, with a historic foe of the United States like Russia, conducting massive military exercises south of the United States border and in its surrounding waters and that simulate an invasion of the United States and a joint Mexico and Russian occupation of the United States, including simulations of nuclear first strikes, I mean, it’s difficult to conceive that the U.S. wouldn’t regard that as an act of hostility and aggression. And indeed, North Korea does.

New Era of Nuclear-Armed North Korea Forces U.S. to Reconsider War Games at Regime

 

[A1Kaid]

Congrats on going pro, jh.

People have to realize the defense part of the defense treaty. US/SK aren't going to strike first.

There may not be a war now but, someday, I think fatty Kim might just push the region to that point.

Kim Jong Il chose Kim Jong Un to become the leader of North Korea over his brother Kim Jong Chul because KJ Un. was better at basketball, and was considered more to be like his father.




http://youtu.be/XBfOxE8Iu5M

 

[USAHawk785]

Annexation of Hawaii in 1959 extended American naval power deep into the Pacific

If the opportunity arises, China should annex North (and possibly South) Korea for the same reason as the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959.

The annexation of Hawaii extended American naval power deep into the Pacific. This vastly increased America's security.

Similarly, China should try to annex North (and South) Korea to vastly increase China's security and keep the American military away from China's northeast.

Military logic and security are immutable. Expanding the American buffer zone to Hawaii made America far more secure. Expanding the Chinese buffer zone into North (and South) Korea will make China far more secure.

Pray may I ask, and you think that the United States will allow that to happen? Conventionally, the full might of the 7th and 5th fleet will be sent to the waters adjacent to and within the Sea of Japan. There are ramifications to any North Korean aggression, wherein the Japanese Self Defense Force (Land , Navy, and Air) shall be mobilized to assist American Power.

It is to no one's benefit, not to North Korea, China, South Korea, Japan or the United States to have an eruption of military confrontation in the region.

 

[anon45]

China's annexation of Korea will be similar to the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959

Isn't the benefit obvious?

The United State's pivot to Asia is intended to constrain China's rise. The strategic goal of the United States is to extend U.S. military power to the Yalu River.

The U.S. has already succeeded in extending NATO military power to Poland and the Baltic States. Gorbachev was a fool. Chinese are different. Chinese understand strategy and behave proactively.

Instead of waiting for Korean unification (e.g. an extension of American military power via its South Korean proxy), any competent Chinese general would gain control of North Korean territory and South Korea too if possible.

This is elementary geostrategy. Expand your buffer zone to keep your enemy further away.

Also, Chinese control of the North Korean coastline will allow China to station its radars along the shore. This will extend the range of Chinese ASBM and cruise missiles deep into the Sea of Japan.

Annexing North (and South) Korea brings immeasurable military benefits to China. The benefits are similar to the American annexation of Hawaii in 1959.

huh, either i forgot to post my response or it was removed.

To be brief, this isn't a game of risk and the benefits of 'more land' does not outweigh the economic, regional, and international consequences of being stuck with developing North Korea and the economic humanitarian crisis that is a nuked Seoul South Korea.


You are thinking as if this is a risk board, when it is far more complex.

Also Korea's geopolitical importance re: China is not synonymous with Hawaii's geopolitical importance re: the US, + Hawaii was profitable at the time.

This ignores the obvious challenges of pacifying an obviously occupied country, and the risks of war with the US. If you believe war with the US is not a risk worth worrying about, complain to your government, they take it more seriously than you do.

 

[Vitchilo]

#ROK Unification Minister tells lawmakers there "is a sign" in response to question whether #DPRK might be preparing for 4th #nuclear test.

Please CHINA, PLEASE... Invade, overthrow and annex them already!!

 

[Martian2]

#ROK Unification Minister tells lawmakers there "is a sign" in response to question whether #DPRK might be preparing for 4th #nuclear test.

Please CHINA, PLEASE... Invade, overthrow and annex them already!!

Overkill

If they keep testing, they'll use up all of their plutonium or enriched uranium. An additional test has diminishing marginal return in shock value.

Everyone got the message after the second or third test. North Korea is moving into overkill territory.

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No more jerking China around

China is in a pickle. North Korea is trying to drag China into a war that we don't want.

The United States remains China's most important customer. Also, China needs about another twenty years to overtake the United States militarily.

The timing is wrong and the North Korean crisis is not part of China's plan. Therefore, if the North Koreans screw things up then we'll probably have to annex their country (and South Korea too if they're sufficiently weakened).

China has already been jerked around during the First Korean War (1950-1953). If the North Koreans jerk us around again, it will be the last time because we're going to annex those troublemakers.

 

[Bobshouse]

North Korean has just released another video.

OK I had to laugh at this one

Now North Korea releases bizarre video of military dogs attacking - YouTube