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North East Asian Union? Exploring the potential of an NEA integration

Japan will be treated as second class citizen within North East Asian Union??:rofl:...LMAO this is 21st century we're not in medieval. Union doesn't mean Japan will be merged with China to form a new nation but an organiztion to coordinate our foreign affaire to serve both our interests. I can understand why Vietnameses, Pinoys and Americans are so scare of this Union because they will not longer be able to exploite the different between China and Japan.
Geeezzz...:rolleyes:

The phrase 'second class citizen' is often used to denote lesser status in a relationship, not necessarily 'citizen' in the legal sense. Anyone who believes that JPN will be an equal in this union is delusional.

If you have any uncertainty about some English/American colloquialism, ask for help or look it up before you speak.
 
Like Japan and Korea, China is not immigration-friendly nations compared to Australia, Canada etc. But we are also not xenophobia as well. Till today there is a large African population living in Guangzhou, and half of them are Muslim. So speaking from philosophical and economic dimensions, people of these 3 countries can live every where in NEAU and fell at home.


 
Like Japan and Korea, China is not immigration-friendly nations compared to Australia, Canada etc.



When the "Gaijin" is actually a "Nihonjin" ha ha ha haaaaaaa...! :lol::lol:

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"I want to don't "

Hahahahahahahahaha!
 
HaHa
What about these 808 words that this trio all use?
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The two largest minority groups in Japan are actually Korean and Chinese. We prefer East Asian migration to Japan I think because of the cultural similarity. A Chinese or Korean can easily adapt to life in Japan, I think more than a Laowai.
 
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The two largest minority groups in Japan are actually Korean and Chinese. We prefer East Asian migration to Japan I think because of the cultural similarity. A Chinese or Korean can easily adapt to life in Japan, I think more than a Laowai.
So true, I almost became nihonjin if only my guarantor could have had signed his name on time. Now i have to live with laowai:-)
 
Japan is 3th economic power, high tech industrialized nation, hard work, intelligent people and same Confucius spirit as Chinese, only retards will treate Japanese as 2nd class citizen.



lol we will not go easy on you since we all know @anon45 and not the innocent newbie:D
:o:
 
Like Japan and Korea, China is not immigration-friendly nations compared to Australia, Canada etc. But we are also not xenophobia as well. Till today there is a large African population living in Guangzhou, and half of them are Muslim. So speaking from philosophical and economic dimensions, people of these 3 countries can live every where in NEAU and fell at home.


Koreans are like brothers and sisters to me, Not only same culture but most of them use Chinese name and family name, we're 99.99999999% similar beside those who bragged that Confucius is Korean and Tofu was invented by them :lol:


As for my Japanese friends, there is no social/cultural issues, the remain issues that tear us apart is the historical and the small island claimed by both side. Once these are fixed, North East Asia will find a real peace and who know there is no exclusion to see Japanese town in China or Japanese open business in China town around the world, as Vietnamese despite that we stone throw at each other over SCS issue, Vietnamese are very welcome in Chinatown.

 
Koreans are like brothers and sisters to me, Not only same culture but most of them use Chinese name and family name, we're 99.99999999% similar beside those who bragged that Confucius is Korean and Tofu was invented by them :lol:


As for my Japanese friends, there is no social/cultural issues, the remain issues that tear us apart is the historical and the small island claimed by both side. Once these are fixed, North East Asia will find a real peace and who know there is no exclusion to see Japanese town in China or Japanese open business in China town around the world, as Vietnamese despite that we stone throw at each other over SCS issue, Vietnamese are very welcome in Chinatown.


Even in the depths of our respective national arguments, disagreements, it is done in the spirit of fraternal rivalry -- as similar people. That's what I really value about our unique relationships; the spirit of multidimensionality. It's like a family dynamic , really.
 
When the parties are unable to find a solid ground to realize NEAU (even in spite of the presence of all the historically-bound social, cultural and economic grounds), then, the optimum course to take is to find an external ground (or justification) to make such a union logical and desirable for all parties.

And, in Northeast Asia, we seem to have that external justification to wish and work for a union: That is the military presence of the US.

Japan and Korea want freedom from US chokehold on their national life.

China wants to drive the US off from the entire region to ensure region-wide peace and prosperity. Besides, as a greatest power in the region, it won't naturally wish to allow an external power to have so great impact on the regional geopolitics.

So, we seem to have the perfect external excuse and, as has been pointed out, Japan and China seem to be utilizing that on the security (normalization) and economic (bilateral trade) front while Korea is very strong on the economic front (FTA with China already realized) and weaker on the security front.

As you see, there are multiple developments at diverse stages. What is significant is the direction of these developments, and the direction seems to be a greater regional outlook and desire for creating a region-wide political discourse.

China, Japan and Korea have the historical wisdom and strategc mind to ensure that minimum regional and global backlash would be caused due to such immense shift in the NEA sphere. That's mostl likely why you will not see politicians on each side won't be explicit on their intention and at times they will act as if they wish to keep the US-instigated destructive status quo.

Nonetheless, the trend is unstoppable save a major destructive development. China wants to make sure that the strategic waters would not be disturbed beyond control, hence all the emphasis on regionalism, bilateralism and consensus-making. In the meantime, Japan and Korea should continue to take minor but conclusive steps toward ensuring even greater and finally full sovereignty from the US (military).
 
According to Freud's theory, people's mind can be divided into two parts: the conscious mind (or the ego) and the unconscious mind. The former is developed through the process of “growing up” via the form of education and life experience: people are taught righteousness, ethics,right/wrong, norms,rules of laws etc; the latter refers to the mental processes of which individuals make themselves unaware. So for the part of the development of the unconscious mind, people's race,religion,history,culture,or even food, all play big part in that process. In a broader sense the phrase “you are what you eat” says it all.

Freud's conscious and unconscious mind theory can explain lots of incidents in real life when people acted or behaved irrationally or even anti-socially, that is when there is a big discrepancy between the two minds, given certain circumstances people lose control of the conscious mind and resort into what the unconscious mind is telling them to do. The ways to make irrational rational, or to bridge the discrepancy of the two, are that you either change those factors forging your conscious mind, or change your way of life,the culture,etc to fit into the world with certain rules, or combination of both.

Do nations also have the unconscious mind? Well if they don't, it will be harder to explain the rationale behind numerous incidents while nations were acting irrationally.

So what can Freud's unconscious mind theory enlighten us in our discussion about NEAU here? I think first we can better understand the motivation behind many nations' drive for a multi-polar world, because the international norms and rules developed and forged chiefly by the UK/US,according to their sets of values, are no longer adequate to handle the reality that many nations like Russia and Japan are resurging and nations like China and India are rising.

Secondly, if the US understands Chinese unconscious mind, the US will know China is telling the truth that China does not want to be the world sole super power no mater how strong it is or will be. The Chinese people are not really interested in our people's affairs, (other people meas those people outside the traditional Chinese culture sphere), our ancestors even built a great wall in more than a thousand years to circle China.

Thirdly, even many American pundits agreed that the current internal framework actually benefits China a lot, even China repeatedly told the US China doesn't want challenge the US to overthrow everything, the US chose not to believe. Perhaps this irrationality can be explained by the state of the unconscious mind of the US.

Fourthly, what does Japan's unconscious mind tell it to do? Since I am not Japanese so I should leave it to the Japanese members to ponder. My observation, however, is that although Japan has undergone a hundred years Westernization Process, it keeps lots of old oriental values and traditions. That alone should mean something.

Lastly, put NEAU notion into this context, the biggest obstacle maybe from the conscious mind of the participants: China has a very different political system than the others. However, looking back 40 years in time, China has changed enormously and is till changing. Like Francis Fukuyama's book “The End of History and the Last Man”, the claim that China will not change will not hold up to the test of time. Thousands years of written history has proven that the Chinese people are very pragmatic people, we are capable and flexible to make adjustments when facing new challenges and problems. If this NEAU reaches the stage that all country needs to make some adjustments for it to happen, upon the valuation of the greatest good that it can bring, I am sure the descendants of the Confucius beliefs including China can do it again.

Like normal people at a crossroads, nations need to look back on the past in order to make wise decisions about their future path. In 1972, the world renowned Italian film director Michelangelo Antonioni was invited by the then Chinese PM Zhou Enlai to make a documentary film about China. In his documentary named “China”, Antonioni recorded a true China through his camera lens and from his angle, which later earned him much criticism from the Chinese government, the film was labelled unti-China and banned. I remembered as a little boy about entering primary school in Beijing, we all chanted “安东尼奥尼,是个大坏蛋”- “Anotnnioni is a big bastard” for several years. In 2004, China government formally apologized to him and made the film to the public viewing for the first time. Nowadays this film turned out to be one of the most valuable documentaries about the real China in that era. When I watched it, I felt so real and had the feeling that those people in the film could be me, my family,my neighbours, my friends,or any people I knew.





 
@Nihonjin1051 I almost forgot to mention in my previous post here that your views on the Japanese foreign policy and Japan-US relations prompted me to alter my perception of Japan's foreign policy in the long run. I do hope that Tokyo, along with China and Korea, will play a constructive role in defusing, not exacerbating the conflicts in the Middle East.

I've got one question to you and @Lure as this is about Turkey. Since I have misgivings about Ankara's foreign policy and its stance towards the Kurds and given the fact that Turkey and Japan maintain cordial relations to each other, do you believe that Japan has some kind of leverage over Turkey? In the view of the facts that Japan is in the process of building both economic and political cooperation with Iran and that a rapprochement towards Russia is not ruled out in spite of anti-Russian sanctions in place, the Kuril Islands dispute and pressure on the side of Washington, this is an interesting question to my mind.
 
Since I have misgivings about Ankara's foreign policy and its stance towards the Kurds and given the fact that Turkey and Japan maintain cordial relations to each other, do you believe that Japan has some kind of leverage over Turkey? In the view of the facts that Japan is in the process of building both economic and political cooperation with Iran and that a rapprochement towards Russia is not ruled out in spite of anti-Russian sanctions in place, the Kuril Islands dispute and pressure on the side of Washington, this is an interesting question to my mind.

No proper leverage to speak of, perhaps we could account the outstanding loans and aid from Japan as some sort of leverage, but if push comes to shove, Erdogan would burn bridges in an instant if Japanese would try to exert some sort of pressure, keep in mind we are not talking of huge numbers here, few billion in loans and a few hundred million in aid grants....ie no leverage.
 
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@Nihonjin1051 I've got one question to you and @Lure as this is about Turkey. Since I have misgivings about Ankara's foreign policy and its stance towards the Kurds and given the fact that Turkey and Japan maintain cordial relations to each other, do you believe that Japan has some kind of leverage over Turkey? In the view of the facts that Japan is in the process of building both economic and political cooperation with Iran and that a rapprochement towards Russia is not ruled out in spite of anti-Russian sanctions in place, the Kuril Islands dispute and pressure on the side of Washington, this is an interesting question to my mind.

First let's delve into Kurdish issue. Well of course there are a lot of inconsistincies in AKP policies regarding PKK insurgency in Turkey. However that doesn't change the fact that long before AKP even existed PKK was still killing lot's of civilians, civil servants, police officers and soldiers. Since 1984 around 42000 people were killed by PKK. Around 8000 of them were soldiers and police officers. The rest were civilians (most of them were Kurds who refused to support PKK) and civil servants. Such a violent terrorist organization surely deserves everything that's coming on them.

Some examples from PKK attacks against Civilians and Civil Servants :

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The title says "PKK Massacre". The incident happened in Çevrimli Village, Şırnak. The village refused to pay tribute or join to PKK. PKK strikes the village. Kills 27 people including 12 child, 7 women and 4 village guards. They have pre-determined and attacked to Village guards' houses. Killing their wives, relatives and children.

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The title says "4 teacher was martyred". Terrorists forms road blocks and stops the cars. Then they control people's identities in the cars. In one of the cars there were four teachers all of them works in the same school. Militants then tells them to step outside the car. Then four primary school teachers were executed by shooting.

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The title says "Hungry PKK militants slaughtered". PKK militants seized a chromium mine in Samandağ, Hatay. Then they've told workers to bring them some food. After that they gather all the workers around and opens fire on them and runs away before gendarmerie comes. 8 workers died.


China didn't even experience 1% of what happened in Turkey with Uyghurs. Such incidents happened every single day in Turkey. As I've said 40000 people were killed by PKK just like the methods above. That was a huge ordeal for Turks. Counter terrorism clearly put a lot of strain on economy. Besides radical Islamists (AKP and their prequels) were blaming Kemalist Republic and it's secular values for those massacres. Clearly PKK changed a lot of things in Turkish politics including the rise of political Islam and fall of Kemalism.

This is kind of a sensitive issue. Therefore I wanted to elaborate rigorously in this part.

To second part (and your actual question), can Japan influence Turkish foreign policy. Well the answer is clear. Japan may have extremely limited influence in Turkish foreign policy. Japan is too far away, there is some economic ties but definitely Russia was much more vital and much closer to Turkey and you know the story.

AKP sees Turkey as Ottoman Empire. We call this neo-ottomanism in Turkey. They delusionally see Syria like a Turkish territory. There are a lot of criticism both by the opposition in Turkey and by external factors. Yet still AKP doesn't back down and creates a mass that would take years to fix. I don't think Japan or any other country for that matter can simply back AKP down in syria.

Even with the West there is a lot of tension regarding the Syrian issue. However since the West has also an imperialist agenda they can cut deals. An example is the current refugee negotiations with Angela Merkel. The West just doesn't back off. They still say Assad will go just like AKP does. AKP maintains the "dictator and murderer Assad" narrative at home just like the West does. That's why their voters still believe there is a justifiable cause in Syria and AKP is doing something noble by helping Syrians.
 
I almost forgot to mention in my previous post here that your views on the Japanese foreign policy and Japan-US relations prompted me to alter my perception of Japan's foreign policy in the long run. I do hope that Tokyo, along with China and Korea, will play a constructive role in defusing, not exacerbating the conflicts in the Middle East.
I learn a lots in this forum. Before I joined, I hated the Japanese government and afraid of the remilitarized Japan, but I now realize this normalization is indeed a push for Japan to be more independent. Not to mention, I had never thought about the union among the Chinese, Japanese and Korean, this really opens my eye and makes me reconsider our future path with them. I believe that if more people share the same view, which we East Asian can build an union as successful as other unions in the world, then East Asia will be more peaceful and forgiving. I know this will not be a easy task, but this is our final task before the fully revival of our East Asian nations.
 
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