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North East Asian Union? Exploring the potential of an NEA integration

Hmm, what can I say, I'm all for JP-CN-KR union. They're too similar, have too much in common culturally among the Asian states. Besides, it's already been happening [culturally] since 2013. Behold, "The Demi Gods & Semi Devils", a 2013 Chinese production featuring a Korean main protagonist:

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(skip to 2:12 to see how the trio treats each other as equal "brothers" never one of them a "second class" citizen)

Japan is the [hidden] trump card both China and Japan r playing. When the time is ripe, Japan will reveal herself as the third leg of the tripod... such a trio union will shock the world... And, I predict in future adaptations of the above work, the trio of protagonists in the drama will be comprised of an actor from each country.
 
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I don´t speak for VN, but just think a scenario where VN joins a CN led club is VERY unrealistic.
why should we join when majority of chinese rather see us in a GAS chamber

It would not be a China-led club/union, in the traditional sense of the word, my friend. To have an idea, just look how China, although it had the initiator's advantage and privileges, designed and structured the AIIB with proportional representation but no exclusive vetoing power.

Do you know that China declared it would not be applying for the AIIB loans (which is just 100billion USD if all commitments are fulfilled) and that it would also spare a private fund of 50million USD for the most urgent infrastructure works in the poorest members of the AIIB.

This is how China perceives global governance. A great country can be benign, indeed. I know most Vietnamese friend bring up the SCS issue (the only conceivable disagreement between us) but also keep in mind that so far in solving its land/border disputes, China has given up more than it has taken (And actually I personally do not like this).

This cannot be done in SCS not becase of the territory itself, but because of geopolitics that goes well beyond China-Vietnam bilateral relations.

OK, @Nihonjin1051 has my vote for the nest PM of Nippon:offpost:

I had the same thought, LOL. Seeing @Nihonjin1051 at a prominent position in Japanese politics would be a considerable plus for greater peace and cooperation between China and Japan and a huge boost for realizing NEAU.

I, personally would call this Union of East Asia as The Greater East Asia.

I liked the terminology. It also suits well with the concept of Greater China. In a sense, it would be an extension and regional expression of the Greater China.

Welcome to the forum, by the way. :D

I don't like immigrants from Africa or the West, it's not my biased opinion, I just don't like them. But if it's Koreans, Japanese or Vietnamese, I'm OK.

Same here.
 
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I don´t speak for VN, but just think a scenario where VN joins a CN led club is VERY unrealistic.
why should we join when majority of chinese rather see us in a GAS chamber?

I think you spent too much time in Germany that you start thinking like those Nazi by using the words ''GAS chamber''. If what you said is true about gas chamber, how come China and Taiwan's government and its citizen didnt retaliate by rounding up vietnameses in their countries (and sent them to gas chambers) and sent them back to Vietnam after the riots in Vietnam by burrning the han chinese factories? The truth is Vietnam's action has always been considered as nuisance rather than a threat to China interests.Do you ever meet real chinese person in real life that hate vietnamese so much that they start to pogrom vietnamese? or start beating, spitting and burning vietnamese like Neo Nazi did to immigrants in East Germany?I bet that has never happened.

Your statement that Vietnam join a China led club is very unrealistic, is not true. Vietnam did joins AIIB club, a China led club. Without China there is no AIIB! What makes you think that Vietnam will not join the Greater East Asia when the opportunity arise? Take for example the recent election in Vietnam within the communist party. Despite the so called high tense election between conservative and progressive party within the communist party, the conservative party led by General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong (pro China) won big time (almost 100% of the vote) over the progressive (anti China) Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung bloc. This says alot about Vietnam's core attitude with regard to China despite the differences.Same with Japan and Korea towards China.

Granted that the time is not ripe for this generation to pull and executed the idea of the Greater East Asia. Too much obstacles. So far the idea of the Greater East Asia only circulated among China(+Taiwan),Japan and South Korea. But personally, i dont have doubt that this Greater East Asia will be realised. For now its indeed just an idea, but it will be materialized. It is a pity i couldnt live for the next 200 years to see the forming of this Union. Currenty we need someone like Jean Monnet to start the process of Greater East Asia. Without someone likeJean Monnet, there would be no European Union.
 
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You think Japan will just let that happen?? :lol: you're talking the 3th economic power country, possessing one of the most powerful and sophisticate financial system.
Just like in another thread,u dont know if JP dare to kick US out of its country or not, so, u cant stop your wet dream of NEAU + VN now.
I think you spent too much time in Germany that you start thinking like those Nazi by using the words ''GAS chamber''. If what you said is true about gas chamber, how come China and Taiwan's government and its citizen didnt retaliate by rounding up vietnameses in their countries (and sent them to gas chambers) and sent them back to Vietnam after the riots in Vietnam by burrning the han chinese factories? The truth is Vietnam's action has always been considered as nuisance rather than a threat to China interests.Do you ever meet real chinese person in real life that hate vietnamese so much that they start to pogrom vietnamese? or start beating, spitting and burning vietnamese like Neo Nazi did to immigrants in East Germany?I bet that has never happened.

Your statement that Vietnam join a China led club is very unrealistic, is not true. Vietnam did joins AIIB club, a China led club. Without China there is no AIIB! What makes you think that Vietnam will not join the Greater East Asia when the opportunity arise? Take for example the recent election in Vietnam within the communist party. Despite the so called high tense election between conservative and progressive party within the communist party, the conservative party led by General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong (pro China) won big time (almost 100% of the vote) over the progressive (anti China) Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung bloc. This says alot about Vietnam's core attitude with regard to China despite the differences.Same with Japan and Korea towards China.

Granted that the time is not ripe for this generation to pull and executed the idea of the Greater East Asia. Too much obstacles. So far the idea of the Greater East Asia only circulated among China(+Taiwan),Japan and South Korea. But personally, i dont have doubt that this Greater East Asia will be realised. For now its indeed just an idea, but it will be materialized. It is a pity i couldnt live for the next 200 years to see the forming of this Union. Currenty we need someone like Jean Monnet to start the process of Greater East Asia. Without someone likeJean Monnet, there would be no European Union.
When We join a group, that doesnt mean VN will support that group. For example: when PH agreed wt CN for join venture exlporation the SCS( east VN sea), VN also joined the group, but we join to find out the way to ruin that plan. Finnally, VN did it, the join exploration was cancelled.

US soon will take control of JP economy in TPP, so at least a so called NEAU wont happen in abt 10 years. But if once day NEAU could be formed and VN join the group, it also doesnt mean VN support that Union.

And stop talking nonsense abt our leader Trong. Hes pro TPP deal instead of pro CN.
 
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Just like in another thread,u dont know if JP dare to kick US out of its country or not, so, u cant stop your wet dream of NEAU + VN now.

When We join a group, that doesnt mean VN will support that group. For example: when PH agreed wt CN for join venture exlporation the SCS( east VN sea), VN also joined the group, but we join to find out the way to ruin that plan. Finnally, VN did it, the join exploration was cancelled.

US soon will take control of JP economy in TPP, so at least a so called NEAU wont happen in abt 10 years. But if once day NEAU could be form and VN join the group, it also doesnt mean VN support that group.

And stop talking nonsense abt our leader Trong. Hes pro TPP deal instead of pro CN.

If Vietnam is as smart as China or Japan like you implicitly claim in your quote, why not try to work hard, being innovative and claim the top 10 economy of the world spot or better yet to be the top 20 economy (G20) of the world in the short time like China, Japan and korea have achieved instead of playing the saboteur? Your claim that you bragged about Vietnam ruined the plan of join venture between states, might boost your viet ego, but in business or diplomatic circle you would only be perceived as unreliable and untrustworthy. Its ok for state to lie and cheat for their own self interests but there are boundaries they should not even dare or even thinking to cross. If you think Vietnam joined AIIB and the RCEP in the future and somehow able to sabotage the chinese owned institutions, then you are really ignorant and doesnt know much about how rules, directives and regulations for such institution work. You think you can get away unscratched by your so called actions and see yourself as the hero who slayed the dragon? How old are you mentally?

These talks about The Greater East Asia is very common between business people and scholars of China, Japan and Korea. Whether Vietnam want to join based on the criteria, is up to 2 factors : 1) The vietnamese government (and not you!) 2) The consensus of (future)China,Japan and Korea' s government when the time is ripe for the formalisation of the Union. Even I who agreed with the addition of Vietnam to the Greater East Asia,find resistance among some of the east asian i talked to about Vietnam as additional nation to the Greater East Asia. But that is another story.

I dont talk nonsense about your leader Trong. I only judge and analyzed him based on international news regarding Vietnam and China. As you claimed your Trong is pro TPP instead of pro China: are you really sure about your statement? Pro TPP=pro Washington=regime change=death sentence to the communist government of Vietnam. If you so strongly believe in your viet government policy of pro TPP and and bragged not to considerate China's interest, why then even try to be part of China own version of TPP the so called RCEP? Talk is cheap, action speaks louder.

You can scream,curse,hate the Greater East Asia or whatever prop up in your mind right now, but in the end it really doesnt matter because 1) the future generation will decide whats the best for them 2) the government of Vietnam and not YOU, will decide what is the best interest for the country.

If you really believe that USA could take over Japan's economy than you have no idea about what China, Japan, Korea could do to make the USA miserable. The policy these 3 nations run are not direct unlike western people/government do and act. Its always subtle with a little bit of Sun Tzu' art of war' touch.
 
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Just like in another thread,u dont know if JP dare to kick US out of its country or not, so, u cant stop your wet dream of NEAU + VN now.

When We join a group, that doesnt mean VN will support that group. For example: when PH agreed wt CN for join venture exlporation the SCS( east VN sea), VN also joined the group, but we join to find out the way to ruin that plan. Finnally, VN did it, the join exploration was cancelled.

US soon will take control of JP economy in TPP, so at least a so called NEAU wont happen in abt 10 years. But if once day NEAU could be formed and VN join the group, it also doesnt mean VN support that Union.

And stop talking nonsense abt our leader Trong. Hes pro TPP deal instead of pro CN.

I don't know why you hate so much of Japan or maybe @Nihonjin1051 didn't take your side as anti-china so you want to paint Japan as inferior for not able to kick US out as way of revenge...but lol ok . As for your idea of sabotage once you join the union, you can always dream but China, Japan and Korea will not let that happen.
 
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If Vietnam is as smart as China or Japan like you implicitly claim in your quote, why not try to work hard, being innovative and claim the top 10 economy of the world spot or better yet to be the top 20 economy (G20) of the world in the short time like China, Japan and korea have achieved instead of playing the saboteur? Your claim that you bragged about Vietnam ruined the plan of join venture between states, might boost your viet ego, but in business or diplomatic circle you would only be perceived as unreliable and untrustworthy. Its ok for state to lie and cheat for their own self interests but there are boundaries they should not even dare or even thinking to cross. If you think Vietnam joined AIIB and the RCEP in the future and somehow able to sabotage the chinese owned institutions, then you are really ignorant and doesnt know much about how rules, directives and regulations for such institution work. You think you can get away unscratched by your so called actions and see yourself as the hero who slayed the dragon? How old are you mentally?

These talks about The Greater East Asia is very common between business people and scholars of China, Japan and Korea. Whether Vietnam want to join based on the criteria, is up to 2 factors : 1) The vietnamese government (and not you!) 2) The consensus of (future)China,Japan and Korea' s government when the time is ripe for the formalisation of the Union. Even I who agreed with the addition of Vietnam to the Greater East Asia,find resistance among some of the east asian i talked to about Vietnam as additional nation to the Greater East Asia. But that is another story.

I dont talk nonsense about your leader Trong. I only judge and analyzed him based on international news regarding Vietnam and China. As you claimed your Trong is pro TPP instead of pro China: are you really sure about your statement? Pro TPP=pro Washington=regime change=death sentence to the communist government of Vietnam. If you so strongly believe in your viet government policy of pro TPP and and bragged not to considerate China's interest, why then even try to be part of China own version of TPP the so called RCEP? Talk is cheap, action speaks louder.

You can scream,curse,hate the Greater East Asia or whatever prop up in your mind right now, but in the end it really doesnt matter because 1) the future generation will decide whats the best for them 2) the government of Vietnam and not YOU, will decide what is the best interest for the country.

If you really believe that USA could take over Japan's economy than you have no idea about what China, Japan, Korea could do to make the USA miserable. The policy these 3 nations run are not direct unlike western people/government do and act. Its always subtle with a little bit of Sun Tzu' art of war' touch.
Okay, we can work hard, we can make lots of high tech products, but where is the MARKET to export and sell our product ??

How CN can sell her products ??? She bowed down and surrenderred Taiwan to USA in 1979, detroyed communist bloc in order to get the right to sell products in US-EU market. What happen to CN when US create TPP and stop importing CN's products ?? CN economy keep falling, million jobs lost.

No need to talk abt how JP can sell its products cos its just a sub-state of USA.

I don't know why you hate so much of Japan or maybe @Nihonjin1051 didn't take your side as anti-china so you want to paint Japan as inferior for not able to kick US out as way of revenge...but lol ok . As for your idea of sabotage once you join the union, you can always dream but China, Japan and Korea will not let that happen.
I believe that NEAU can not happen in 10 years while JP still under US control, so why Vnese should waste time for that wet dream ??
 
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You are bound to be led by others, it doesn't matter by who, my buddy. ^_^

Er....it's a wishful thinking at least for now, not any official practice get involved, only just the blue prints drawn by scholars of related countries. For me, I don't have too much positive opinions of Korea of Japan, but I believe East Asia belongs to we East Asians, so I‘m in favour of such Union.



I don't like immigrants from Africa or the West, it's not my biased opinion, I just don't like them. But if it's Koreans, Japanese or Vietnamese, I'm OK.
haaaaaaaa why you have problems with japan and korea? because you dislike sushi and kimchi :D

believe it or not, I am a supporter of an East Asian Union.

years ago, I once created a thread for it, with the first step creating a union of Japan-Vietnam, second step Japan-Vietnam-Taiwan and received a lot of rediculous comments and insults. in short, we are too poor, hence disqualified to talk of it. actually when I think of such union, I am thinking of security as primary, a region of peace and stability. monetary comes secondary. but for many chinese, money apparently comes at first. a union bases on trust, not on money and other things. it can´t function if you think making a union is like how to get most money out of it.

A Vision: Union of Japan and Vietnam

I said VN joining a CN led union is unrealistic. I did not say "impossible!".
 
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I believe that NEAU can not happen in 10 years while JP still under US control, so why Vnese should waste time for that wet dream ??

No one said that NEAU wll be happened tomorrow and don't worry we wont twist your arm for that, I only suggest to include Vietnam because of @vietnamera 's comment on post #122, with or without Vietnam won't make any different.
 
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No one said that NEAU wll be happened tomorrow and don't worry we wont twist your arm for that, I only suggest to include Vietnam because of @vietnamera 's comment on post #122, with or without Vietnam won't make any different.
Without US's "help", JP would still be a land of pirate. Without US's support in 1979, CN GDP per person would still merely around 178-200 usd per year.

Btw, u guys should show that u can survive in TPP which I believe that will make CN economy collapse in 2028 and JP economy soon will be under US control.

USA is very bad guys, VN war taught us that lesson. So, try to survive first, talk abt NEAU latter.
 
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Without US's "help", JP would still be a land of pirate. Without US's support in 1979, CN GDP per person would still merely around 178-200 usd per year.

Btw, u guys should show that u can survive in TPP which I believe that will make CN economy collapse in 2028 and JP economy soon will be under US control.

USA is very bad guys, VN war taught us that lesson. So, try to survive first, talk abt NEAU latter.

LMAO...China, Korea and Japan own nothing to US, we used our sweat and blood to earn every cent that we deserve, Americans are the great mafia in this world, they foment trouble around the world so they can sell weapons and use one against other to serve their interest and create system such world bank to control the world economy. Chinese and Japanese scholars know what Americans are up to, that's why it's essential to form a powerful block such NEAU to serve as counterweight.
 
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LMAO...China, Korea and Japan own nothing to US, we used our sweat and blood to earn every cent the we deserve, Americans are the great mafia in this world, they foment trouble around the world so they can sell weapons and use one against other to serve their interest and create system such world bank to control the world economy. Chinese and Japanese scholars know what Americans are up to, that's why it's essential to form a powerful block such NEAU to serve as counterweight.
U mean that before 1979, Cnese didnt work hard, so its GDP per person was just merely 178-200 usd ???
 
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Okay, we can work hard, we can make lots of high tech products, but where is the MARKET to export and sell our product ??

How CN can sell her products ??? She bowed down and surrenderred Taiwan to USA in 1979, detroyed communist bloc in order to get the right to sell products in US-EU market. What happen to CN when US create TPP and stop importing CN's products ?? CN economy keep falling, million jobs lost.

No need to talk abt how JP can sell its products cos its just a sub-state of USA.


I believe that NEAU can not happen in 10 years while JP still under US control, so why Vnese should waste time for that wet dream ??

To answer your question about how China could sell her products if/when the USA are not the costumers anymore? Well isnt it obvious? try to find new market(s). The world is bigger than the USA. Do you ever think about other continents/regions like Europe, Latin America, Africa, middle east, south asia, central asia and south east asia? I am pretty confident the USA market could be easily replaced by these markets together. Why do you think Xi Jing Ping and his diplomats are having so much trips to regions he deemed necessary for the future of China on the long term? You think he likes to take vacations by going abroad and ignore the domestic affairs? ofcourse not! He made sure China has alternative than the USA whether its politic,economy or others. Cornering/shutting out China has never been a good idea, the chance is this kind of policy is going to back fire. I think AIIB has already been proven that USA by ignoring China's wish for more vote in World Bank, finally ended up like a clown. China always set her sight for long term ultimate gains and will never be satisfied with the shot terms crumbs. Other races never undertood what long terms means. For them a few years is too much to bear, unlike chinese who prepare to bear the discomforts for decades in order to gain the final benefits for future generation. Thats why we honoured and paid our respect to our ancestors for their sacrifice with Chinese New Year.

I somehow cant imagine USA would or can shut out chinese products out of the USA intern market, no matter how tough the USA politician or media try to display. How is USA going to feet their Walmart customers among others? Have you ever seen youtube video about the Black friday? It would cripple the USA society if those americans dont get their daily doses of MADE IN CHINA products. Not to mentioned of the retaliation China would shown with regard to USA heavily subsidized agricultural products.

You mentioned about Nippon need to survive10 years after the TPP? and then what? you think Nippon will sit idle and do nothing? Ever thought about clause in the agreement? If USA try to wreak havoc/ abuse Nippon's internal market based on some vague, unfair stipulation, Nippon could always drops the trade agreement and walks away. Nothing special about that. Every contract, provision and regulation always has a clause. Its always written in tiny words in Terms and Conditions. Trade agreement is always based on respect and equal partner. Ask yourself why its almost impossible to find USA or Europe products in Nippon's intern market? Its because Nippon always shield their intern market from outsiders and protect the local markets. In USA, there is hardly made in USA cars anymore, almost all cars are imported from east asia. General Motor even developed their cars in China and sell it in USA! Who leechs who now?

From now on until the realizing of Greater East Asia, there will still be fighting between China-Japan-korea-Vietnam for some kind of territoral disputes. I am realistic and aware of that. Personally i am more interested into the mechanism that enable the establishment of the Greater East Asia for the next generation. This generation is cooked. You cant change the structure of a cooked meal. If this Greater East Asia project is mere a dream, dont you think this concept would already been thrown out of the window by all relevant parties by now? The fact that Nihonjin opened the debate of this topic with source from the Yonsei annals, a South Korean source, means that both Nippon and Korea are open for the possibility of this kind of Union. This idea of Greater East Asia has already been pretty much floating in the last 2 a 3 decades of the 20th century and still survive until today.

When the European Union started as we known today, the ideals were very different than in the'50. It was first called European Coal and Steel Community. It was pure trade between West-europe states. Gradually it changes and added more (East) european countries and took more ambitious goals and tasks despite the many sabotage of USA , done by their inside agent, the UK. The EU is now practically a supranational state with many mechanism (like European court of justice, European board of commission and the Council of Europe) to support this mega institution.

The only way to make the union of Greater East Asia possible is by making the biggest hindrace, USA, gone from Asian theater, whether its possible or not, i really dont know. I let it over to the next generations of relevant countries whether they want to preserve the status quo or move on and create a institution like the EU.
 
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I have doubt with NEAU, especially with American hegemony still exist in NE Asia. When American out of Korea and Japan and Korea unified, the problem is CAN Japan and Korea do that? Each countries in NE Asia has it own pros and cons, so we can learn each other for reaching our maximal potential, minus political tension which today aggravated by foreign power. No, not being sceptic but hard to see any ground to NEAU. Sorry for my English.

By the way, can you ignore the Viet and back to this interesting discussion, please?
 
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