No Problems in Acquiring Engines for JF-17 Aircraft :PAF Chief

[sathya]

russia may only delay it for india..
wont deny it..
anyway india has good knowledge about it.
same situation when india buys f 16in , pak would instantaneously know how it ll work, better than india ...

 

[Ammyy]

well karaara jawab to alll indians and russiand who were happy with the russsian ceo of mig and su that they dont want to selll us engines

Well thts also have other side of story also

China need russian approval for sale to other country?? isnt it??

 

[abaseen99]

Zhuhai airshow + engines
So, we finally got a slight peak at what will be shown in Zhuhai airshow 2008. If you check Aviation Now, you will find this piece

日前，珠海机场获息，国产重要机型都将亮相本届珠海航展，其中部分有：3架歼-10（J-10）、2架歼-8B、1架轰油6、1架飞豹A。据了解，歼-10其中一架进行飞行表演，另外2架静态展示。轰油6将在此次航展进行空中加油表演。(张宝鑫 张&#33395


The list above includes 3 J-10s (one doing flight demonstration and the other 2 are just for display), 2 J-8B, 1 HU-6 and 1 JH-7A. Also, the HU-6 will conduct in-flight refueling with I presume J-10 and J-8B. Of course, we should expect the usual suspects like JF-17, L-15, JL-9, UAVs, ARJ-21, MA-60, but J-10 will be the star of the show.

The other big news coming out in the past day is Guizhou Liyang's announcement of a new engine project. The article is posted below. It basically tells us that WS-13 (aka Taishan) finished the 300 hour long duration test at the end of the last year. And also mentioning the launch of the new engine. At this point, they could either be talking about WS-12 (aka Tianshan) or another turbofan engine in this weight class that is a generation ahead. So, it would be in the class of EJ-200/F414-EDE.


I know that the engine development situation in China is kind of confusing, so I will just look at the major engine makers and what they are working on.

Guizhou Liyang
Currently makes the WP-7 series and WP-13 series for J-7s. Due to the number of J-7, JJ-7s and JL-9s in PLAAF, this is probably the mostly used engine at the current time. It is developing WS-13 for JF-17. The project is obviously getting close to the original design certification. It will soon be able to fly with JF-17. The project that was mentioned here, which may or may not be WS-12.

Shenyang Liming
This one is most well known for its WS-10A (Taihang) and WP-14 (Kunlun) series engines. Since J-8II, J-10 and J-11B are the elite forces in PLAAF, we'd expect Liming to be doing pretty well in the coming years. At the current time WS-10A still has yet to receive production certification, but that should come in the next 2 years. It will then be considered mature. At the same time, Liming is also developing improved versions of Taihang and Kunlun. In the case of improved Taihang, it will be comparable to the improved AL-31FM series engines and be the main power plant of Chinese aircrafts. There are rumours that Liming will develop a more advanced version to compete for PLAAF's 5th generation jets. In the world of gas turbines, Liming has developed QC/D-128, QC/D-70, QC/D-168, QC/D-185 and QC/D-260 based on Taihang and Kunlun. So, it has also managed to corner the PLAN market.

Xi'an aircraft engine maker
At the current time, XAE is most well known for its WP-8 and WS-9 engines. Both are in full production mode (WS-9 just passed production certification this year) for aircraft built by XAC. Although, H-6K is using D-30KP2, so WP-8 is probably only used for replacements now. With the success of JH-7 series aircraft, WS-9 will still be in hot demand. More importantly, the WS-15 is well under way in XAE. This will be the future of Chinese aircraft engines. It is the only well known 5th generation aircraft engine project for China until this recent Liyang news.

608 Institute
This institute develops the remaining major item engines. It currently builds WS-11 series engine for K-8 and have received the ToT for licensed production of the AI-222-25K. It is also developing WZ-9 for the Z=10 helicopter and WZ-10 for future Chinese helicopters like the 10 tonne helo (or maybe even future Z=10 and Z-15). There are also some mysterious pieces on 608 in the past. This quote below discloses that they developed a turbojet that has already been tested with a plane. It's still unclear what this plane is, although people suspect it's a CAS aircraft replacing Q-5. It talks about developing a motor for UAV and starting certification flight for WZ-9. Looks like 608 has the future PLA helicopter and trainer/attacker market cornered.


608所的涡喷是什么东东
4月8日的航空报除了涡轴9的消息外，还有个涡喷的消息，文字如下：某型涡喷在完成先期技术攻关和技术验证机研究两个完整阶段后已成功装机试飞

4月15号HKB报道：608所07年某无人鸡动力装置关键技术研究顺利通过验收、某涡喷发动鸡在完成了先期技术攻关和技术验证鸡研究两个完整阶段后成功装鸡试飞；我国自行研制的具有完全自主知识产权的某型发动鸡在06年首飞成功、07年顺利完成科研调整试飞的基础上，目前已进入定型试飞阶段。。。


Finally, there are the WS-150 (or maybe WS-200), WS-500 and WS-850. These are the engines being developed for cruise missiles and small UAVs. I really wasn't able to find which specific factory designs and produces them.

 

[khurasaan1]

I hope PAF will be eastablishing the engine manufacturing plant for JF-17 at home too......Insha-Allah..

 

[abaseen99]

yes this great issue will b in the mind of paf

 

[abaseen99]

Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport is preparing a contract for the delivery of additional RD-93 jet engines to China, a senior official from the company said on Tuesday.

Beijing concluded a $238-mln contract with Moscow in 2005 for supplies of a 100 RD-93 engines with options for another 400 to equip its FC-1 Fierce Dragon fighter jets, jointly developed with Pakistan.

"We are holding new talks with the China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation [CATIC] on another option for additional 100 RD-93 engines," Deputy General Director of Rosoboronexport Alexander Mikheyev said at the Airshow China 2010, which is being held on November 16-21 in Zhuhai.

"We hope that this contract will be signed," Mikheyev added.

The RD-93 engines is a variant of the RD-33 engine developed to power the MiG-29 fighter jet.

The RD-93 was developed by Russia's Klimov design bureau specifically for the FC-1 fighter, known in Pakistan as the JF-17 Thunder.

ZHUHAI (China), November 16 (RIA Novosti)

 

[muse]

While the supply of RD93 engines does not seem to be subject to restriction -- I think the Xiaolong/JFT series of aircraft will continue to need a much more robust and economical engine.

Good enough is not something we should settle for - this series of aircraft has great potential to provide Pakistan with the kind of deterrent capability it will increasing see a need for - Our adversary in the near future will not be a single country but a "coalition", and this will continue to characterize the adversary for unfortunately, an extended period of time, perhaps decades -- which means we have little time to celebrate our achievement, we have to be in a constant state of vigilance and we owe it to the Defenders of the Pakistani nation and state, to equip them with ever more powerful and capable platforms.

We need more powerful engines for this aircraft - we have made a fine start with the brotherly assistance of China, and this JFT/Xiaolong aircraft, to achieve it's potential to evolve into a more potent mulitrole platform, will need a engine that is not only significantly more powerful, it must be significantly more efficient and we must endeavor to manufacture it, even if we start with license.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

While the supply of RD93 engines does not seem to be subject to restriction -- I think the Xiaolong/JFT series of aircraft will continue to need a much more robust and economical engine.

Good enough is not something we should settle for - this series of aircraft has great potential to provide Pakistan with the kind of deterrent capability it will increasing see a need for - Our adversary in the near future will not be a single country but a "coalition", and this will continue to characterize the adversary for unfortunately, an extended period of time, perhaps decades -- which means we have little time to celebrate our achievement, we have to be in a constant state of vigilance and we owe it to the Defenders of the Pakistani nation and state, to equip them with ever more powerful and capable platforms.

We need more powerful engines for this aircraft - we have made a fine start with the brotherly assistance of China, and this JFT/Xiaolong aircraft, to achieve it's potential to evolve into a more potent mulitrole platform, will need a engine that is not only significantly more powerful, it must be significantly more efficient and we must endeavor to manufacture it, even if we start with license.

a few retired PAF persons that i know, still willing to have f-414.

 

[muse]

Nothing US - That would border on the criminal - One such experience with the US was enough, we must never allow ourselves to be in that situation ever again.

 

[VCheng]

Nothing US - That would border on the criminal - One such experience with the US was enough, we must never allow ourselves to be in that situation ever again.

Good point, but sources for jetfighter engines are only a few, so finding suitable alternatives with good performance characteristics is never going to be easy.

Having come this far with the JF-17 platform, I agree with your previous post above about the necessity of developing an indigenous engine program as well, no matter how long it takes.

 

[abaseen99]

Good point, but sources for jetfighter engines are only a few, so finding suitable alternatives with good performance characteristics is never going to be easy.

Having come this far with the JF-17 platform, I agree with your previous post above about the necessity of developing an indigenous engine program as well, no matter how long it takes.

read my post on the top of this page ws 13 is ready for jf 17 and test trail already start

 

[muse]

read my post on the top of this page ws 13 is ready for jf 17 and test trail already start

I read most all posts and an aware of this development -- The new Chinese engine is certainly a welcome development, however, if I understand correctly, it does not offer the kind of increase in power and efficiency we will or should, seek - again, to the best of my knowledge, the engine offers a modest 10% increase and not the 30 to 35% increase in power we should pursue - additionally, the efficiency of the engine is a unknown quality, as are it's serviceability schedules and the degree to which such can be performed with relative ease -- Our adversary, in the form of a "coalition" means we will be confronted with a variety of platforms and capabilities, and while we are starting from point defense, we must develop the capability to take the fight to the adversary - this, alas, is the only way to inject a measure of sobriety in to the adversary policy makers and it will steel our resolve by giving the nation the confidence in our ability to to shape our environment.

No denying that what we need is not readily available or that a great deal of treasure and technology has to be expended and developed - got that, agree with it - the essence of what I'm suggesting is that we not allow ourselves to "take a break" or "stand still" because the threat to the nation and the state is not only not going away, it is set to increase in a way we have not experienced before - forewarned, forearmed.

 

[fatman17]

the chinese are making great strides in the area of engine development but they are at-least 5 years away before their engines (of all types) wld perform like any western engine - this is one area which is keeping the chinese back. therefore the 'pipeline' from russia for military jet engines and the pipeline from canada and france for civilian jet and helo engines remains very important.

 

[abaseen99]

ws 10 engine at zhuhai air show

 

[abaseen99]

rd 93