No One Can Seperate Islam and Pakistan: Gen. Kayani

[Spring Onion]

Oh..please don't separate...doesn't matter to us

Neither he was addressing the bhartyas so please dont get sleepless.

 

[Iggy]

Yes report back here with your findings on that forum, sir. You'll get a grasp of real hatred and racism towards Pakistan and Pakistanis from your fellow Indians and god forbid if there's a Pakistani presenting a different POV, forget abusive language toward his nationality his family is dragged into the midst, too. I've seen plenty of such phychotic and racist behavior towards Pakistanis from Indians on their websites, and many members here might attest to it and may have their own experiences. Heck, I believe you may be quiet aware of it too. On Pakistani websites and forums Indians are always given a proper independent and fair voice to express themselves with very little hostility and strict moderation toward personal and racist and abusive remarks. Sadly, that's not the case for Pakistanis on an Indian website, and I think you and other Indian members here know that quiet well. So for you to come here and start accusing Pakistani people of having hatred toward India is very hypocritical of you.

And how convenient of you to point out one talk show/host who is highly discredited by majority of pakistanis while totally disregaring your own Pak-basing media, it's all too typical indian behavior. But you know what, no hard feelings, god knows we have our own problems and shortcommings and need to focus on those, that should be our priorty, highlighting your problems in no way are gonna fix ours, what you do with your issues including anti-pak sentiments or don't, do shouldn't be our problem.

Sorry for going offtopic but buddy if you go to any other Pakistani defense forum also you can see all kind of racial attacks against Indians and calling us all kind of names..I am not advocating Bharat Rakshak or my countries people actions but these kind of people can be seen anywhere in the world..

 

[Bhaarat]

All Muslims are equal and there is no difference if Quran was revealed to an Arab or non Arab.

The Prophet (PBUH) clearly said There is no preference to Arabs over non-Arabs, white over black and so on.

Ok, if you say so. I am not here to fight over small issues and I certainly dont want to hurt your religious sentiments.

whoever leads (kindly correct your misperception its not ruling but leading) so whoever leads the Ummah, it must be a powerful country in terms of military, strategy, economy and many other things. Or the leader could be chosen by consensus.

Having a consensus, though desirable, is hard to achieve and frankly, not feasible. Many countries would want to stake claim to 'leading' the Ummah, so the strongest will succeed with or without consensus. Once, they succeed, they will stick to their prejudices and levy rules based on them.

And no Pakistanis do not tend to take our troubles as troubles of Islam rather the world and specially Indians take any achievement by Pakistan as achievement of Islam hence try to create troubles for Pakistan.

No, India knows very well that Pakistan must not be elevated to the level of Islam. This is precisely the reason that India does not recognise Pakistan as 'Islamic Republic' but simply as Paksitan. India is open to creation and working of Islamic countries in our neighbourhood. India has only problem with Pakistan. Infact, India has quite close relations with Iran and India is also a quite a prominant donator to Palestine. Of course, we also do business with Israel. India is not a champion of Islam, but India not against Islam or Islamic countries. Infact, India would be party to the idea of using its 150million plus muslim population to further our interests. And we have done so in the past. If ever a ummah is formed, India would be more than happy to do business with them.

 

[bigmoneymaker]

religion and politics must be splitted, otherwise the rulers will inevitably somehow make use of holified and deitified religion to puzzle the people from realizing truth that the rulers is to maintain and justify their existing interests by exploiting the religion to manipulate the population in the confusion created by the religious maze....could be disastrous as the public in the maniac in the religion like the WW2japanese being maniac in bushido and way of samurai myth and unable to wake up from samurai dream and myth until big slap in their faces to see things in less extreme and blind faith taught by bushido.....life is just that simple,isnt it??why make your thoughts on world origin so myterious and complicated in the guise of some great holy mantle to menacle your true and bright sense like innocent infants ??

even the religion teaching is not absolutely correct....way to coexist with people with different values is the only true way of peace, a religion calling for jihad the whole time against all other humans carrying the same ordinary humanity as you religion believers will never have the tolerance capacity to accommodate different civilizations, which means you are bound to stay at the place without interaction with others while imposing your insensible will on the others forcefully. there are two distinct example and counterexample in this world but i dont want to mention them two to incur extreme controversy with blind statements.
time will tell you which one is lagging behind and which one is moving forward in the face of crisis and all kinda difficulties from the past to the present, their endurance is admirable thanks to their continously shaped culture and long history cultivating their opened and efficient attitudes....the less tolerancy of incoming outer cultures(although sometimes may be mixed with ill intentioned political interference), the less vibrant the civilization....time will bring you siginificant conclusion.

politics and religion must be splitted, to let your sight see a broader horizons of world pure natural course rather being confined by the religious teaching dogma, my best advice, friends.....to those extremely immersed themselves in religion issues will never see anything more important but actually simple beyond religion, please someone with sober minds and true wisdom wake up to find the way of living coexistly with your capable hands and true experience, not being told by a book and its interpreters throughout all the ages and centuries what to instruct you......

 

[paritosh]

What I was pointing at was that the Mullahs already have spoken against the actions of the Pakistan Army. It is not unusual for Kayani to speak up in this regard since the debate was not started by him.

Whatever problem you are describing does not apply to Kayani who minds his own business till its absolutely necessary to speak up.

Moreover it will be factually wrong to spin this statement and give Kayani some sort of Mullah outlook.

i have this belief that most army people are the most secular people one can find...and there is a good reason for that...
a thread i read earlier...about the first Sikh ranger recruit had an underlying effect on my earlier post...
even if you have just a couple of thousand minority guys living in your country...a huge chunk of your broader national principles have to have the small minority in mind...call it PR or a humanitarian axiom...it has to be scripted like that.
i must add that I present your quarrelsome neighbor's POV...
have seen them propaganda videos...on u-tube of Pakistani hindus proclaiming their love for Pakistan and warning India of all sorts of $hit...you have to keep a pair of their shoes right by your bedside if you are in a state like Pak and hold an office that wields enough power...or least could launch a coup de'tat to get enough...
this statement Asim...carries major weight.


p.s:-not about the PAk minorities this...

 

[StingRoy]

Yes report back here with your findings on that forum, sir. You'll get a grasp of real hatred and racism towards Pakistan and Pakistanis from your fellow Indians and god forbid if there's a Pakistani presenting a different POV, forget abusive language toward his nationality his family is dragged into the midst, too. I've seen plenty of such phychotic and racist behavior towards Pakistanis from Indians on their websites, and many members here might attest to it and may have their own experiences. Heck, I believe you may be quiet aware of it too. On Pakistani websites and forums Indians are always given a proper independent and fair voice to express themselves with very little hostility and strict moderation toward personal and racist and abusive remarks. Sadly, that's not the case for Pakistanis on an Indian website, and I think you and other Indian members here know that quiet well. So for you to come here and start accusing Pakistani people of having hatred toward India is very hypocritical of you.

And how convenient of you to point out one talk show/host who is highly discredited by majority of pakistanis while totally disregaring your own Pak-basing media, it's all too typical indian behavior. But you know what, no hard feelings, god knows we have our own problems and shortcommings and need to focus on those, that should be our priorty, highlighting your problems in no way are gonna fix ours, what you do with your issues including anti-pak sentiments or don't, do shouldn't be our problem.

Dear, for the records I wanted to correct your statement about "racist" comments... You can call it nationalist but definitely not racist. I will definitely look at other forums.. as I said if time permits... if there is such bashing I stand against it as long as it discriminatory on the base of religion.... I have grown in a society where I have lived with people of all religion... Islam, Christians, Sikhs and Buddhists... and hence my tolerance and respect to all religion.... Now the nationalist in me would always support India as a state not as a religious community.

About the infamous talk show host... I am yet to see any public dissent against such people... hence my opinion that he is the voice of the masses...

 

[StingRoy]

I'm not, bro and it's not just one website there are numerous. But potatoe patata, it doesn't even matter, I'm sure in person Indians are a lot friendly as my own personal experience indicates, probably it's the phycology of being on the Internet that does something, I don't know. But in the end, like I emphasized before, instead of hounding each other over nonsense and wasting our energies on blame games it's about time we should redirect our energy and effort into our own problem solving. Cuz once again call out each other on their shortcommings is not going to solve the other party's problems one bit.

Now thats something encouraging from a Pakistani... I remember Gen Musharraf once spoke (in the India Today seminar, 09)... that lets keep the blame game aside and discuss these issues... blaming each other for the incidents in the past will only grow the anger and hatred...and we will never reach an amicable solution to the Kashmir problem.

 

[Creder]

Abu,

You maybe correct, but it seems that this declaration of Kiyani was a response to this ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’ to ‘People’s Republic of Pakistan’

So, some parties want to change the name of Pakistan such that its islamic identity is not stressed, but why? what could be the reason?

how about its none of your frikin business ?

 

[Creder]

Maybe you can do the honors since you are near his home.
If it were not for tolerance and respect for people of different cultures and religions there would never have been a country called India.

oh for crying out loud .. how the hell does a country call itself secular where 80% of its population is divided among a brahmans and untouchables and god knows what.... you dont become secular by putting it in your books...and if u were that calm and peace loving 47 would never have happened

 

[M_Saint]

one is a nation, one is general, one is religon. ok it is understood that general and nation are related but what has it to do with Islam. No Islam is not gonna save Pakistan in terms of crisis when the problems in Pakistan are because of the same Islam.


one needs to separate Islam and Pakistan for the effective running. Islam should be the heart and the inspiration for Pakistan not the state of Pakistan.

In order to understand the oneness of the nation, general and religion or even the Planetary Linkage of material and Non-Material things; An Indian has to come out of the fold of Nehru, Savarkar's teaching and re-morph him/herself with the understanding of CREATOR'S reach. If Islam were out of equation then there wasn't any need of the creation of Pakistan at the first place and if it was taken away from national fabrics then the nation wouldn't exist anymore, it was as simple as that. My understanding is that Kayani is realizing that PAK-MIL is the ultimate target and the creations of TTP along with other peskies are just means to achieve that end. So, figuring army is on the fault line, he is trying to reach out the real friends of PAK, I.E. Islam loving emotional awam, thanks.

 

[DavyJones]

oh for crying out loud .. how the hell does a country call itself secular where 80% of its population is divided among a brahmans and untouchables and god knows what.... you dont become secular by putting it in your books...and if u were that calm and peace loving 47 would never have happened

chill man creder ! you need to read up on history - true India is not truly secular yet - but we are trying and striving towards this goal. Maybe if we don't have Hindu-Muslim riots and other sorts of religious violence - I will say India is secular.
US is non-racist - but don't we see some racial incidents taking place ? Bad apples are everywhere - if the state policy is discriminitary - there is where the problem starts.
In india - some Police and some politicians are un-secular

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i must add that I present your quarrelsome neighbor's POV...
have seen them propaganda videos...on u-tube of Pakistani hindus proclaiming their love for Pakistan and warning India of all sorts of $hit...you have to keep a pair of their shoes right by your bedside if you are in a state like Pak and hold an office that wields enough power...or least could launch a coup de'tat to get enough...
this statement Asim...carries major weight...

are u their spokesperson? How do u know its "propaganda"

??????


btw, it was minority groups protesting against india when Mr. Pranab Mukhraji made statements about demand for Hafiz Saeed to be arrested

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Infact, India has quite close relations with Iran and India is also a quite a prominant donator to Palestine. .

it is the Muslim groups in india which donate for Palestine cause.

as for iran -- you launched israeli spy satellites, voted against Iran @ UN, and snubbed the pipeline deal. I dont think Iran cares much for india at the moment, though Chahbahar is an interesting attempt to rival Gwadar

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am surprised that no one is going deeper into this issue. If Kiyani is saying that no one can separate Islam from Pakistan, then it simply means that there is an active attempt to separate islam from Pakistan to the extent that Gen. himself had to reassure the people.

Well its was nothing dramatic General Kiani Sahib and Zardari were having a cup of tea , and Zardari proposed (Allegedly) so should be perhaps consider changing the name to just People's republic of Pakistan ? And Kiani Shaib said No ... so Zardari , said no problem I thought I might just bring it up for no apparent reason, as he was leaving then Kiani Asked by the way can you please give Gilani Sahib the Nuclear weapons authorization , we kinda need it for India , wink wink

End of story , and every one lived happlily ever after

 

[Bhaarat]

it is the Muslim groups in india which donate for Palestine cause.

Yes, they do. Apart from that the Govt. also donates, infact more than Pakistan. "]UNRWA welcomes US$ 1 million donation from India

India is not against Islam or Islamic nations. India is only against Pakistan due to historical, political and strategic reasons. India itself houses more muslims than Pakistan.

as for iran -- you launched israeli spy satellites, voted against Iran @ UN, and snubbed the pipeline deal. I dont think Iran cares much for india at the moment, though Chahbahar is an interesting attempt to rival Gwadar

That is India's foreign policy. We at a time partner with seemingly opposite set of countries: US and Russia, Iran and Israel. India's foreign policy makers have been highly careful in formulating this policy over the years. As for the pipeline deal, it is not off yet, but may well be in future. Yes, we did vote against Iran in UN, and Iran was hurt, that country had expected us to support them. I hope our guys explained our situation to them and assauged any hard feelings. Chahbahar, and Delaram road, are evidence of India-Iran's similar ambitions for this region.