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No, Mughals didn't loot India. They made us rich

@EgyptianAmerican What would you say about the self-immolations of the Tibetans? There are monks in the Buddhist and Jain tradition who starve themselves to death when they see that their bodies have aged....Human beings are complex , we cannot know their motivations..as for Sati, its a red herring...4,000 deaths over 20 years pales in comparison to other injustices of history
 
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Not really because unlike you I believe in science and know that no sane human being would burn to death. We all know you force women to do that because most likely all of them disagreed with the notion of dying.


Hey we all know what Bigots like you "know" , like the virgins waiting for you in heaven if you do jihad :lol:

Spare me the list of all that you "know". Share that with your fellow islamic bigots and camel lovers. Go tell them that you "Know" that they will all be raised from the dead as zombies at the day of "judgement" :cheesy:

It's explicitly said in both the books and show dipshit. It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. If you had bothered to read or watch either than you would have STFU by now.

The show shows her walking into her husbands Funeral pyer to burn along with him. That is what the series SHOW. :lol: There is nothing in the show that demonstrates that she is immune to fire BEFORE that incident dickhead.

In any case I have no interest in discussing a fantasy tv series with you or anybody.


What is wrong with reading fantasy? It's sorta ironic how intolerant and bigoted you are and still have the audacity to call others that.

I have an interesting life but unlike you, I have an appreciation for works of literature and imagination and not advocating for such a horrific practices like forcing women to self-immolate themselves after the death of their husbands.

LOL....... ya we all know you love "fantasy", like you bigoted fantasy of people forcing women to "self immolate" after their husbands die :lol:

Now why don't you tell us how your prophet muhammed "forced" himself on his underage wife ? I am certain you appreciate that work of literature too.

@EgyptianAmerican What would you say about the self-immolations of the Tibetans? There are monks in the Buddhist and Jain tradition who starve themselves to death when they see that their bodies have aged....Human beings are complex , we cannot know their motivations..as for Sati, its a red herring...4,000 deaths over 20 years pales in comparison to other injustices of history

Don't you know ? they are Kafirs who will burn in Hell as per the quran :lol:

BTW what 4000 deaths over 20 years are you talking about ?
 
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@sankranti report from the Bengal region in early 1800s after meticulous tracking.....It seems Hindu orthodoxy hardened after the EIC takeover...Good marxist historians should be able to find out rational reasons for that....By Good Marxist Historians I mean somebody like polymath DD Kosambi and not some modern anti-India feminists like Wendy Doniger and Arundhati Roy
 
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@sankranti report from the Bengal region in early 1800s after meticulous tracking.....It seems Hindu orthodoxy hardened after the EIC takeover...Good marxist historians should be able to find out rational reasons for that....By Good Marxist Historians I mean somebody like polymath DD Kosambi and not some modern anti-India feminists like Wendy Doniger and Arundhati Roy

1. Wendy Doniger or Arundhati roy are not feminists, nor historians.

2. EIC war fighting regiments primarily came from Bengal. There were 84 regiments, All of which was made up of majority Hindus.

The british had the loyalties of the hindus after saving them from the tyranny of islamic rule. However by 1857 , 64 of them rebelled against the EIC.

The madras regiment were primarity for Guard duties and the Mumbai regiment were regularly disbanded since they were unsure of the Maratha's loyalty.

3. I am still waiting to know about the 4000 deaths in 20 years. What were you talking about ?
 
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1. Wendy Doniger or Arundhati roy are not feminists, nor historians.

2. EIC war fighting regiments primarily came from Bengal. There were 84 regiments, All of which was made up of majority Hindus.

The british had the loyalties of the hindus after saving them from the tyranny of islamic rule. However by 1857 , 64 of them rebelled against the EIC.

The madras regiment were primarity for Guard duties and the Mumbai regiment were regularly disbanded since they were unsure of the Maratha's loyalty.

3. I am still waiting to know about the 4000 deaths in 20 years. What were you talking about ?


I vaguely remember that in around 1830, reports were deposited at EIC headquarters that around 4,000 Sati incidents happened in Bengal over the earlier 20 years..trying to dig it up from wikipedia..cannot find it as the page has changed a lot in 7-8 years since I read it
 
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I vaguely remember that in around 1830, reports were deposited at EIC headquarters that around 4,000 Sati incidents happened in Bengal over the earlier 20 years..trying to dig it up from wikipedia..cannot find it as the page has changed a lot in 7-8 years since I read it

If you have NO PROOF of such a malicious claim, I hope you will have the integrity to delete that post or modify it.

That is the bare minimum you can do.

After the "Sati law" was passed, a grad total of 2 sati was stopped in bengal for the next 200 years.

So what does your common sense tell you ?


Now compare that to the law against child marriages that was passed , Millions of child marriages continue to happen in India.

NO LAW can change society.
 
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I vaguely remember that in around 1830, reports were deposited at EIC headquarters that around 4,000 Sati incidents happened in Bengal over the earlier 20 years..trying to dig it up from wikipedia..cannot find it as the page has changed a lot in 7-8 years since I read it

A barbaric custom not much different to burning a woman at the stake or burying her to her neck and stoning her to death.

Kudos to the Hindus for doing away with it.

Even if they needed external help to do it.

Cheers, Doc
 
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If you have NO PROOF of such a malicious claim, I hope you will have the integrity to delete that post or modify it.

That is the bare minimum you can do.

After the "Sati law" was passed, a grad total of 2 sati was stopped in bengal for the next 200 years.

So what does your common sense tell you ?


Now compare that to the law against child marriages that was passed , Millions of child marriages continue to happen in India.

NO LAW can change society.


Of course its a Christian missionary report...I would half that number and then divide it by 10 times, to get a much more realistic view

@sankranti Do you think the whole sati thing was blown out of proportions by the British? WHat is more realistic estimate of incidences of Sati in late medieval and early modern Period?


Numbers[edit]
A 1829 report by a Christian missionary organization includes among other things, statistics on sati. It begins with a declaration that "the object of all missions to the heathen is to substitute for these systems the Gospel of Christ", thereafter lists sati for each year over the period 1815-1824 which totals 5,369, followed by a statement that a total of 5,997 instances of women were burned or buried alive in the Bengal presidency over the 10-year period, i.e., average 600 per year. In the same report, it states that the Madras and Bombay presidencies totaled 635 instances of sati over the same ten-year period.[168] The 1829 missionary report does not provide its sources and acknowledges that "no correct idea can be formed of the number of murders occasioned by suttees", then states some of the statistics is based on "conjectures".[168] According to Yang, these "numbers are fraught with problems".[169]

William Bentinck, in a 1829 report, stated without specifying the year or period, that "of the 463 satis occurring in the whole of the Presidency of Fort William,[note 6] 420 took place in Bengal, Behar, and Orissa, or what is termed the Lower Provinces, and of these latter 287 in the Calcutta Division alone". For the Upper Provinces, Bentinck added, "in these Provinces the satis amount to forty three only upon a population of nearly twenty millions", i.e., average one sati per 465,000.[170]



Social composition and age distribution[edit]
Anand Yang, speaking of the early nineteenth century CE, says that contrary to conventional wisdom, sati was not, in general, confined to being an upper class phenomenon, but spread through the classes/castes. In the 575 reported cases from 1823, for example, 41 percent were Brahmins, some 6 percent were Kshatriyas, whereas 2 percent were Vaishiyas, and 51 percent Sudras. In Banaras, though, in the 1815-1828 British records, the upper castes were only for two years represented with less than 70% of the total ; in 1821, all sati were from the upper castes there.

Yang notes that many studies seem to emphasize the young age of the widows who committed sati. However, by study of the British figures from 1815 to 1828, Yang states the overwhelming majority were ageing women: The statistics from 1825 to 1826 about two thirds were above the age of 40 when committing sati[171]
 
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Of course its a Christian missionary report...I would half that number and then divide it by 10 times, to get a much more realistic view


Numbers[edit]
A 1829 report by a Christian missionary organization includes among other things, statistics on sati. It begins with a declaration that "the object of all missions to the heathen is to substitute for these systems the Gospel of Christ", thereafter lists sati for each year over the period 1815-1824 which totals 5,369, followed by a statement that a total of 5,997 instances of women were burned or buried alive in the Bengal presidency over the 10-year period, i.e., average 600 per year. In the same report, it states that the Madras and Bombay presidencies totaled 635 instances of sati over the same ten-year period.[168] The 1829 missionary report does not provide its sources and acknowledges that "no correct idea can be formed of the number of murders occasioned by suttees", then states some of the statistics is based on "conjectures".[168] According to Yang, these "numbers are fraught with problems".[169]

William Bentinck, in a 1829 report, stated without specifying the year or period, that "of the 463 satis occurring in the whole of the Presidency of Fort William,[note 6] 420 took place in Bengal, Behar, and Orissa, or what is termed the Lower Provinces, and of these latter 287 in the Calcutta Division alone". For the Upper Provinces, Bentinck added, "in these Provinces the satis amount to forty three only upon a population of nearly twenty millions", i.e., average one sati per 465,000.[170]

Social composition and age distribution[edit]
Anand Yang, speaking of the early nineteenth century CE, says that contrary to conventional wisdom, sati was not, in general, confined to being an upper class phenomenon, but spread through the classes/castes. In the 575 reported cases from 1823, for example, 41 percent were Brahmins, some 6 percent were Kshatriyas, whereas 2 percent were Vaishiyas, and 51 percent Sudras. In Banaras, though, in the 1815-1828 British records, the upper castes were only for two years represented with less than 70% of the total ; in 1821, all sati were from the upper castes there.

Yang notes that many studies seem to emphasize the young age of the widows who committed sati. However, by study of the British figures from 1815 to 1828, Yang states the overwhelming majority were ageing women: The statistics from 1825 to 1826 about two thirds were above the age of 40 when committing sati[171]

Then you must also know that these same charlatans tried to pass of a FAKE Hindu scripture they made up called the "Maha Nirvana Tantra". Written by the same Raja Ram Mohan Roy who "appealed" to the british to "save" hindu women from "sati" while his OWN MOTHER filed a case against him for cheating and fraud and his entire family threw him out.

A law brought by the same Raja ram mohan roy who was a christian and is buried in England.

You are quoting from the same governing body who's primary job was to grow opium and sell them to china. A Drug cartel of christian white men teaching "morality" to the "natives".

What is the credibility of such a "report" ?

The same Lord William Bentinck, congratulating him for the abolition of Sati, about which the EIC government itself had serious doubts and reservations and had thrown out more than twice, till "ram mohan roy" manufactured these evidences and submitted them as "proof".

A barbaric custom not much different to burning a woman at the stake or burying her to her neck and stoning her to death.

Kudos to the Hindus for doing away with it.

Even if they needed external help to do it.

Cheers, Doc

You are pathetic.

Can you show me ONE SINGLE muslim, Hindu or chinese sources that talk about "sati" in India ?

Surely those who came to India for a 1000 years before the british would have written SOMETHING about it ? at least MENTIONED IT somewhere ?
 
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Then you must also know that these same charlatans tried to pass of a FAKE Hindu scripture they made up called the "Maha Nirvana Tantra". Written by the same Raja Ram Mohan Roy who "appealed" to the british to "save" hindu women from "sati" while his OWN MOTHER filed a case against him for cheating and fraud and his entire family threw him out.

A law brought by the same Raja ram mohan roy who was a christian and is buried in England.

You are quoting from the same governing body who's primary job was to grow opium and sell them to china. A Drug cartel of christian white men teaching "morality" to the "natives".

What is the credibility of such a "report" ?

The same Lord William Bentinck, congratulating him for the abolition of Sati, about which the EIC government itself had serious doubts and reservations and had thrown out more than twice, till "ram mohan roy" manufactured these evidences and submitted them as "proof".



You are pathetic.

Can you show me ONE SINGLE muslim, Hindu or chinese sources that talk about "sati" in India ?

Surely those who came to India for a 1000 years before the british would have written SOMETHING about it ? at least MENTIONED IT somewhere ?

Don't bore me with your Hindu fundamentalism please.

Cheers, Doc
 
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LOL .......... I can see that you still have trouble handling the truth :lol:

Once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite.

You know why that refugee is talking like some big shot today ?

Because his bawa community was allowed to take refugee by (some jedi rana)jadeja clan of Gujarat when Muslims and Arabs were wooping their parsee *** after conqureing their lands.

Being nice to Mellech is what makes you mainlanders weak. We would have dumped em to sea or kicked their candy asses back to Herat so that Arabs can have some more slaves.
 
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You know why that refugee is talking like some big shot today ?

Because his bawa community was allowed to take refugee by (some jedi rana)jadeja clan of Gujarat when Muslims and Arabs were wooping their parsee *** after conqureing their lands.

Being nice to Mellech is what makes you mainlanders weak. We would have dumped em to sea or kicked their candy asses back to Herat so that Arabs can have some more slaves.



This Bawa claims to be a Shiv sena supporter .. and has the gall to accuse others of "hate". :lol:
 
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Because his bawa community was allowed to take refugee by (some jedi rana)jadeja clan of Gujarat when Muslims and Arabs were wooping their parsee *** after conqureing their lands.

A Prasi supporting SS over BJP because BJP is communal is hilarious.
I think the person is more an exception than the rule.

BJP's president is a Jain.
BJP has nothing to prove to bigoted people who openly attack a Jain without a second thought. Worse is that the people attacking the Jain claim they are secular - this is freaking hilarious.


This Video is a reflection of his anti-Hindu we have become.

Mata Kodani was in Assembly at 8:40AM. This is the video where Maya was seen in assembly.
yet, she get's convicted by a bigoted judge who was pressured by a secular party on a case where she was "supposedly" lynching people at 8:30AM at a 30Km away distance.

Yes sir, you got it right.
Maya was convicted in a case where she has video evidence of being 30 KM away, not in some fake hospital but inside the assembly with around a hundred more legislators with Video showing her inside the Assembly.
I have no idea how the freaking seculars live with themselves convicting a elderly woman on fake cases using bigoted judges and claim to be secular.
 
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egypt is considered North Africa

We are apart of the Middle East both geographically and culturally. We are also a transcontinental country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transcontinental_countries


invented machines, massively improved artilleries, canons, gunpowder weapons, made explosive shells etc etc..

1) None of these had anything to do with secularism

2) it was Asian countries who invented gunpowder and weapons.


ecular Rational view of the world of the Europeans won out over the Islamic view of the world of Indian Muslims and the Dharmic view of the world of Indian Hindus

Yeah no, especially since the concept of secularism was invented by a Muslim.

That is what the series SHOW.

Did you even watch it? They didn't.


What would you say about the self-immolations of the Tibetans? There are monks in the Buddhist and Jain tradition who starve themselves to death when they see that their bodies have aged....Human beings are complex , we cannot know their motivations..as for Sati, its a red herring...4,000 deaths over 20 years pales in comparison to other injustices of history

I said no SANE person would do such a thing, Buddhist monks aren't sane. They try to deny their basic biological functions for some grade A nonsensical bullshit.

Hey we all know what Bigots like you "know" , like the virgins waiting for you in heaven if you do jihad :lol:

Spare me the list of all that you "know". Share that with your fellow islamic bigots and camel lovers. Go tell them that you "Know" that they will all be raised from the dead as zombies at the day of "judgement" :cheesy:

Reported

In any case I have no interest in discussing a fantasy tv series with you or anybody.

Then don't bring it up, dipshit.

Now why don't you tell us how your prophet muhammed "forced" himself on his underage wife ? I am certain you appreciate that work of literature too.

"According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years beforeHijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an , was revealed, “I was a young girl”. The 54th Surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

The actual statements referred to in the above paragraph, their translations and their complete references are given below:

Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur’an ], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, Kitaab al-Tafseer, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-saa`atu Maw`iduhum wa al-sa`atu adhaa wa amarr)

Ayesha was married after Hijrah (migration). Thus, if she could recall that Chapter 54 was revealed, she must have been at least 3-5 years old, plus the 9 years before hijrah, which places her at 12-14 before Hijrah and at least 14-16 before marriage. This makes it impossible that she was 9 or 6.

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha‘s (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhudclearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

A narrative regarding Ayesha‘s (ra) participation in Badr is given in Muslim, Kitaab al-jihaad wa al-siyar, Arabic, Bab karahiyah al-isti`anah fi al-ghazwi bikafir. Ayesha (ra) while narrating the journey to Badr and one of the important events that took place in that journey, says:

"When we reached Shajarah."

It is quite obvious from these words that Ayesha (ra) was with the group traveling towardBadr.

A narrative regarding Ayesha‘s (ra) participation in the battle of `uhud is given in Bukhari,Kitaab al-jihaad wa al-siyar, Arabic, Baab Ghazwi al-nisaa wa qitalihinna ma`a al-rijaal.

Anas reports that On the day of Uhud, people could not stand their ground around the Prophet (pbuh). [On that day,] I saw Ayesha (ra) and Umm-e-Sulaim (ra), they had pulled their dress up from their feet [to save them from any hindrance in their movement].”

As far as the fact that children below 15 years were sent back and were not allowed to participate in the battle of `uhud, it is narrated in Bukhari, Kitaab al-maghaazi, Baab ghazwah al-khandaq wa hiya al-ahzaab, Arabic.

Ibn `umar (ra) states that the Prophet (pbuh) did not permit me to participate in Uhud, as at that time, I was fourteen years old. But on the day of Khandaq, when I was fifteen years old, the Prophet (pbuh) permitted my participation.”

This battle took place before Ayesha’s marriage to Prophet Muhammad, so now we see that she was at least 15-16 years old.

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha(ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidaayah wa al-Nihayahthat Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. IfAsma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

The relevant references required in this argument are provided below:

For the Difference of Ayesha’s (ra) and Asma’s (ra) Age:

According to Abd al-Rahman ibn abi zannaad:

Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Al-Zahabi, Vol. 2, pg. 289, Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risala’h, Beirut, 1992)

According to Ibn Kathir:

She [i.e. Asma] was ten years elder to her sister [i.e. Ayesha]. (Al-Bidaayah wa al-Nihaayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy, Al-jizah, 1933)

For Asma’s (ra) Age at Her Death in 73 AH

According to Ibn Kathir:

She [i.e. Asma] witnessed the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, five days later she herself died, according to other narratives her death was not five but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old. (Al-Bidaayah wa al-Nihaayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol. 8, pg. 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabiy,Al-jizah, 1933).

According to Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaaniy:

She [i.e. Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH.” (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaaniy, Pg. 654, Arabic, Bab fi al-nisaa, al-Harf al-alif, Lucknow)"

- @Sher Shah Awan

There you go, allegation debunked.
 
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