No fighters for pakistan: Russia

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Pakistan is going to have to face the reality that it can't match India in the air, and the arrival of S-400 will further cement their air superiority.

How does Pakistan counter this??

Asymmetrical methods in the form of greatly bolstering our external intelligence apparatus as well as ELINT and IMINT assets, and then pairing that with a host of advanced ground-based precision-guided munitions (i.e. SRBM and MRBM), direct action-able SOF, and suicide drones. We would basically have to create a scenario where India deems putting its prized air defence jewel close to the border too risky, thereby at least freeing our own air space.

 

[SQ8]

Asymmetrical methods in the form of greatly bolstering our external intelligence apparatus as well as ELINT and IMINT assets, and then pairing that with a host of advanced ground-based precision-guided munitions (i.e. SRBM and MRBM), direct action-able SOF, and suicide drones. We would basically have to create a scenario where India deems putting its prized air defence jewel close to the border too risky, thereby at least freeing our own air space.

Already did that.

 

[C130]

Asymmetrical methods in the form of greatly bolstering our external intelligence apparatus as well as ELINT and IMINT assets, and then pairing that with a host of advanced ground-based precision-guided munitions (i.e. SRBM and MRBM), direct action-able SOF, and suicide drones. We would basically have to create a scenario where India deems putting its prized air defence jewel close to the border too risky, thereby at least freeing our own air space.

I was thinking alone those line as well, but for the SRBM and MRBM, the S-400 can counter these threats from what the Russians have been saying.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I was thinking alone those line as well, but for the SRBM and MRBM, the S-400 can counter these threats from what the Russians have been saying.

Saturate the area. Pakistan would need to invest in a low-cost lightweight SRBM design it can replenish quickly. Once you can ID where the S-400 systems are located, you blast those areas with lots of SRBMs and MRBMs. We're looking at knocking out the radar and missile launchers, i.e. the two most valuable aspects of the system. Pakistan basically needs to convince India that stationing the S-400 systems that close to the border is too risky.

 

[C130]

Saturate the area. Pakistan would need to invest in a low-cost lightweight SRBM design akin to the Israeli LORA. Once you can ID where the S-400 systems are located, you blast those areas with lots of SRBMs and MRBMs. We're looking at knocking out the radar and missile launchers, i.e. the two most valuable aspects of the system. Pakistan basically needs to convince India that stationing the S-400 systems that close to the border is too risky.

I don't know if locating the S-400 would be as easy as you make it sound. It's a very mobile system after all.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I don't know if locating the S-400 would be as easy as you make it sound. It's a very mobile system after all.

I didn't say it was easy, I was just describing the practical objectives Pakistan would need to achieve. But yes, an expanded intelligence infrastructure - from individuals to ELINT and SIGINT systems to satellites - is crucial as well. Beyond doing everything you can to locate and strike it, you can only leave it to factors out of your control.

 

[MilSpec]

In reality, the only issue is the heartburn Indians have ( to put it politely), at the thought of PAF inducting a new platform. Cash is simply not an issue. What is an issue, is the supply of parts, in the event of hostilities.

To reply politely, when one doesn't understand the issue, and is only guided by their own pathetic prejudices, it;s better to refrain from posting rather than derailing the topic at hand. What say?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

In this particular scenario, I can guarantee you PAF has an edge. They are extremely familiar with every aircraft in the PLAAF inventory, and have flown & trained in the Su27 & 30's. They crew chiefs & technical team leaders, have worked with their Chinese counter parts and know these aircrafts inside out. To the extent of fine tuning the PLAAF's SOP's.

Although a few hiccups are to be expected, but IF inducted, from delivery to FOC, will be extremely fast.

@Windjammer @Indus Falcon

Hi,

I absolutely have no doubts in what you are saying---but a potent heavy strike aircraft has a power and aura of its own over the enemy---.

Mind games work very well----like the Starfighter F104---.

 

[Photon]

What ever happened to Pakistan's acquisition of Mi -35 Choppers?

There was a lot of hype around it, that Pakistan will order 4 Mi-35s.

But was a deal ever signed ?

 

[barbarosa]

If we can pay, the Russia will send SU 35 through whaga border.

 

[Mystery]

What ever happened to Pakistan's acquisition of Mi -35 Choppers?

There was a lot of hype around it, that Pakistan will order 4 Mi-35s.

But was a deal ever signed ?

Already delivered.

 

[Photon]

If we can pay, the Russia will send SU 35 through whaga border.

If you can pay 'enough' even India will deliver, Su 30s from its own inventory, but the problem is, you can not.

Already delivered.

When, where ?

Do you have pics of Mi -35s in PAF colours ?

 

[ziaulislam]

Saturate the area. Pakistan would need to invest in a low-cost lightweight SRBM design it can replenish quickly. Once you can ID where the S-400 systems are located, you blast those areas with lots of SRBMs and MRBMs. We're looking at knocking out the radar and missile launchers, i.e. the two most valuable aspects of the system. Pakistan basically needs to convince India that stationing the S-400 systems that close to the border is too risky.

real challenge is not getting air superiority over Indian airspace, that is not a possibility in my opinion, the challenge is to deny IAF the same, for that we need a low cost medium range SAM system to be mass produced and improving our current fighters(thunder-f-16 combo)

cost is the key, to put matters in context single rafale deal cost Indians 9 billion dollars that is nearly 1.5 times the amount of IMF bail out we got, so no we cannot afford jet fighters (unlike most people think here) unless on long term loans.

This is the ground reality for any other country even larger economies than us cannot afford fighters

in my opinion any SAM system can easily be saturated in the future with decoys and than targeted with anti radiation missiles, that includes the S-400, it would be the IAF that would be the real challenge

 

[C130]

I didn't say it was easy, I was just describing the practical objectives Pakistan would need to achieve. But yes, an expanded intelligence infrastructure - from individuals to ELINT and SIGINT systems to satellites - is crucial as well. Beyond doing everything you can to locate and strike it, you can only leave it to factors out of your control.

I am just skeptical since the S-300/400 really hasn't been challenged, but if Pakistan defeat or at least minimize the power of the S-400 surely the U.S can as well.

 

[DCS]

in my opinion any SAM system can easily be saturated in the future with decoys and than targeted with anti radiation missiles, that includes the S-400, it would be the IAF that would be the real challenge

Modern IADS is actually highly redundant and survivable, this is good for both Pakistan and India. It reduces the likelihood of strategic surprise, and limits offensive actions from either side. IAF TACAIR is powerful, but its posture primarily remains defensive. It is Indian strategic developments such as hypersonic delivery systems, SLCM/SLBM, and strategic bombers that should worry Pakistan. These developments can cause strategic surprise, and hypersonic weapons in particular will vastly compress the time window available for Pakistan to react.

I agree with your other points, I think cost is always the issue. Pakistan should have proper time orientation and not squander funds on short term initiatives. Sustained weakness in Pakistan will increase the likelihood of vertical escalation as opposed to the tit for tat horizontal escalation we see today.