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No fighters for pakistan: Russia

Think Again.
UAC doesn't export any aircraft's, Rosoboron Export does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosoboronexport#Aircraft

Come on mate, you are quoting wikipedia. Anyway if thats the case UAC wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Aircraft_Corporation) says

"JSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) (Russian: Объединённая авиастроительная корпорация (ОАК), Obyedinyonnaya Aviastroitelnaya Korporatsiya (OAK)) is a Russian open joint-stock company. With a majority stake belonging to the Russian Government, it consolidates Russian private and state-owned aircraft construction companies and assets engaged in the manufacture, design and sale of military, civilian, transport, and unmanned aircraft. Its headquarters are in Krasnoselsky District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow."
 
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I just clarified what Rostec is.

You may believe what you want to believe in

I personally believe that SU-35 are still on the table for Pakistan.

It's ain't done until Putin speaks.


I think Russia looking for bigger opportunity in pak... Due to cpec, Russia might looking strategic influence in pakistan .. to keep her happy Russia must sell high end defence goodies inorder to protect Cpec .. so russians deliberately causing trouble to Pak-fa, to sieze the opportunity to sale pak and gain strategic influence..
 
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Lol where did you get that from, atleast try and provide some basis for your claims.

On a separate note i have started loosing respect for Indians, the sheer amount of propaganda they are spreading on PDF is just ridiculous and is bordering on lunacy. Apart from MilSpec and Joe Shearer i don't believe there is anyone from India worth having a conversation with.
He is actually right, Russian Military industrial complex is a bit weird.

It's not like US companies where say a Lockheed martin would develop and design the aircraft and manufacture it and then sell it. instead a design bureau would design a system, The nodal agency would pick the development and manufacturing agency, like Sukhoi OKB's design SU27 series was built by two different agencies knaapo and irkut, and then exported by a central agency like Rosoboron. Similarly missiles developed by Vympel okb have been manufactured by NPO Almay and NPO Maschintreya in the past.

Come on mate, you are quoting wikipedia. Anyway if thats the case UAC wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Aircraft_Corporation) says

"JSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) (Russian: Объединённая авиастроительная корпорация (ОАК), Obyedinyonnaya Aviastroitelnaya Korporatsiya (OAK)) is a Russian open joint-stock company. With a majority stake belonging to the Russian Government, it consolidates Russian private and state-owned aircraft construction companies and assets engaged in the manufacture, design and sale of military, civilian, transport, and unmanned aircraft. Its headquarters are in Krasnoselsky District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow."
As I said, UAC/RAC does not export any system. Even Almaz doesn't export any systems, more or less, Rosoboron is the only agency that exports system which is wholly owned by Rostec.
 
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Come on mate, you are quoting wikipedia. Anyway if thats the case UAC wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Aircraft_Corporation) says

"JSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) (Russian: Объединённая авиастроительная корпорация (ОАК), Obyedinyonnaya Aviastroitelnaya Korporatsiya (OAK)) is a Russian open joint-stock company. With a majority stake belonging to the Russian Government, it consolidates Russian private and state-owned aircraft construction companies and assets engaged in the manufacture, design and sale of military, civilian, transport, and unmanned aircraft. Its headquarters are in Krasnoselsky District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow."





https://m.sputniknews.com/military/201609061045028872-russia-rosoboronexport-2016-exports/


Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov said that Rosoboronexport was planning to sell more than $13 billion worth of weapons in 2016 and arms exporter has already sold arms at a cost of $7 billion.

© FLICKR/ RS DEAKIN
Rosoboronexport Working Out Means of Demonstrating Yak-130 in Latin America
KUBINKA (Moscow Region) (Sputnik) — Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport has sold $7 billion worth of weapons over the past eight months, the company’s deputy director general told Sputnik Tuesday.
Earlier in the day, Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov said that Rosoboronexport was planning to sell more than $13 billion worth of weapons in 2016.

"This year's plan stipulates sales of arms worth some $13 billion, we have already sold [arms] at a cost of $7 billion, that means more than a half [of our target]," Sergey Goreslavsky said, speaking at the Army-2016 military forum.

He added that Russia would receive large payments under its contracts with Iran and China by the end of the year.


© SPUTNIK/ EVGENY BIYATOV
Playing With Big Guns: Highlights of the International Army Games 2016
19
Rosoboronexport is responsible for over 85 percent of Russian arms and military technology exports, according to the Rostec state technologies corporation, which owns the arms exporter.
The Russian Defense Ministry's Army-2016 forum is taking place on September 6-11 in Kubinka, a western suburb of Moscow. The forum brings together representatives from the Russian defense industry, research institutes, universities, as well as foreign companies. Over 800 Russian and foreign participants are expected to be involved in some 7,000 exhibitions throughout the week. The forum's participants and guests will attend a number of conferences and roundtables to discuss the future development of military technology.

He is actually right, Russian Military industrial complex is a bit weird.

It's not like US companies where say a Lockheed martin would develop and design the aircraft and manufacture it and then sell it. instead a design bureau would design a system, The nodal agency would pick the development and manufacturing agency, like Sukhoi OKB's design SU27 series was built by two different agencies knaapo and irkut, and then exported by a central agency like Rosoboron. Similarly missiles developed by Vympel okb have been manufactured by NPO Almay and NPO Maschintreya in the past.


As I said, UAC/RAC does not export any system. Even Almaz doesn't export any systems, more or less, Rosoboron is the only agency that exports system which is wholly owned by Rostec.




Payments for Russian arms worth billions of U.S. dollars are held up in Western banks because of trade sanctions imposed by Western countries in the wake of the Ukrainian conflict. Officials of Rostec, the state-owned corporation that took over much of Russia’s military-industrial complex beginning in 2007, revealed details in its corporate report for 2014, published last month. Rostec reported export sales of nearly $15 billion last year, of which $13.2 billion was arranged through Rosboronexport, the state arms export agency. Just three countries accounted for over two-thirds of the total: India (25 percent), China and Iraq (22 percent each).
 
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Come on mate, you are quoting wikipedia. Anyway if thats the case UAC wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Aircraft_Corporation) says

"JSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) (Russian: Объединённая авиастроительная корпорация (ОАК), Obyedinyonnaya Aviastroitelnaya Korporatsiya (OAK)) is a Russian open joint-stock company. With a majority stake belonging to the Russian Government, it consolidates Russian private and state-owned aircraft construction companies and assets engaged in the manufacture, design and sale of military, civilian, transport, and unmanned aircraft. Its headquarters are in Krasnoselsky District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow."

http://www.roe.ru/roe/rus_status.html

upload_2016-10-16_22-44-52.png


upload_2016-10-16_22-46-45.png
 
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See thats why i like you, you actually provide proofs and you improve knowledge as you go. looks like i was wrong that ROSTECH doesn't export Sukhios, for that i apologize.

On saying that, the CEO is still wrong about only selling transport helis, as they have sold 4 Mi-35s to Pakistan already.

First off, most members here have no clue of the value that PAF assigns to Quality and Reliability. I am a big fan of JF17 program, but given given a blank check, PAF wouldn't blink in picking up F16's over JF17's J10's and other Chinese aircrafts any day. PAF is less interested in buying Russian than what Russians being interested in selling.

And yes Russians will pay attention to Indians, as India accounts for almost 25% of their sales, Also Russians have reasons to worry about top line sales as Pakistan is close to both China and USA. So Pakistan won't see Russian top end equipment soon.

Next is the money issue, given the Woes of Pakistan's Defence budget, things are a bit tight now, but as soon your economy improves, expect Euro/US equipment at your top end and Chinese equipment to make up for mid-low tier volume equipment.
 
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First off, most members here have no clue of the value that PAF assigns to Quality and Reliability. I am a big fan of JF17 program, but given given a blank check, PAF wouldn't blink in picking up F16's over JF17's J10's and other Chinese aircrafts any day. PAF is less interested in buying Russian than what Russians being interested in selling.

And yes Russians will pay attention to Indians, as India accounts for almost 25% of their sales, Also Russians have reasons to worry about top line sales as Pakistan is close to both China and USA. So Pakistan won't see Russian top end equipment soon.

Next is the money issue, given the Woes of Pakistan's Defence budget, things are a bit tight now, but as soon your economy improves, expect Euro/US equipment at your top end and Chinese equipment to make up for mid-low tier volume equipment.

US relates every weapons need of Pakistan with COIN/CT ops. It ignores Pakistan's need to maintain military strength against a bullying neighbour. US refused to sell AIM-120D & AIM-9X to Pakistan. In future if PAF wants to upgrade to F-16V standard, there are high chances they will refuse AGAIN.

Recently, PAF wanted to buy 8 F-16 Block 50/52+ aircraft (which was to be followed by 10 more). US approved the sale but refused to release 430 million USD as military aid. It was easy for Pak to pay the remaining 270 million USD. PAF wants to replace old 3rd gen aircraft with 4 - 4.5 gen jets & F-16s are ideal as they are already in service.

Why will PAF pay more than US$ 1.5 billion for 18 F-16s when the better Su-35 costs the same or even slightly less (Kommersant reported PAF has requested an initial batch of 6 Su-35's for US$ 500 million).

If PAF fails to get Su-35, it will look at Chinese options like J-11D (which will be ready for production in a year or two).

There was a statement by an official which clearly said Pakistan will look at Chinese & Russian options for fighter jets and purchase of new F-16s from US is not possible (even in the future).

As far as European options like Typhoon are concerned, Pakistan doesn't have those "billions" required to purchase these aircraft.
 
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India didn't use any US jets..But we used jets comparable or similar with those.And mind you similar on terms of similarity of platforms.

And India always goes for bulk order.You're barely going to find anything in Indian inventory that has been bought 1 or 2 at max.In IAF,you're never going to find any fighter jet with 1 Sqd strength.But then again,its PAF's criteria and their procurement.

But it is in fact well known fact that if you buy only small no of jets,it always costs you more.

In that case Pak has used Chinese variants of russian jets.. we have also used/fought and trained Arabs on soviet jets...

As for twin engine... the last twin engined jet PAF used was A-5 which was a bomber...
 
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since independence we have been so good slaves to USA that now no one trusts us anymore. we have fought for them and fully supported them in wars so how US biggest enemy will accept our loyalty now. our situation is funny . our previous god has left us and now we are looking for a new one.

Learn to be Loyal to Pakistan and not to anyone else .
 
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In that case Pak has used Chinese variants of russian jets.. we have also used/fought and trained Arabs on soviet jets...

As for twin engine... the last twin engined jet PAF used was A-5 which was a bomber...

And A-5 is not a fighter.Traditionally PAF has never used Twin engined Fighter.Nothing wrong with that though,but the question remains,Is PAF even going on that way??Russians denied.Pakistan never confirmed.We only have PDF rumours,just like J-10 and J-31.
 
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what you want to JF-17 complete redesign JF-17? but it is no more JF-17, you want our JF-17 will become F-22 in near future:lol::rofl:, you might be a indian potrayed yourself as pakistani:devil::blah:
jf 17 is actually the reverse engineering of f16 and mig. combination of both
 
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When Pakistan request and Russia reject?
When Pakistan pay and when Russia refuse?
If we pay today tomorrow will SU35 in PAF color.
 
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No contracts or plans for any other military-related equipment to Pakistan exist for present.

you know its a very diplomatic statement .. if you know how it works ,,... key word here is FOR PRESENT ... does not means, it wont change for ever..

Diplomacy at its best .........
 
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When Pakistan request and Russia reject?
When Pakistan pay and when Russia refuse?
If we pay today tomorrow will SU35 in PAF color.
trust me bhai jaan if PAF "really WANTS " Su35 and is ready to pay for it in cash there is no reason why russia would say no but there are three problems

1. your pilots have endurence level of couple of hours in fighter jets deu to single engine and medium feul requirement while twin engine heavies with big feul tank like flankers have endurence of 3-5"su27" hours going upto 6-8"su-35" and pilots have to start training on that level and all that takes loads of money and time and will take at least a decade to make a nee doctroine based around them even if you order them tommorow ... ask @MastanKhan or @gambit about it

2.mantainence of russian fighter jets is at least 2X times more as compared to american or french fighters which becomes twice when its a twin engine meaning a su35 would approx nead at least 4 times more mantainence time than a F16

3.cost or weapons and allied systems apart from fly away +mantinence and training dont forget you have to buy complete set of weapons package and allied products like tooling and engine aids and PODS which all costs money

all in all aif PAF decides to buy say 54 Su35 with spares and training and maintainece aides /pakage and weapons pakage it will still cost around 150 millon as you have to install a whole infra for it
 
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