News from within CAC (J-10B and J-20, also Pakistan related)

[Imran Khan]

bring it home dears its a or b now we have nikkah and she is our izzat lolz hahahahahh

 

[krash]

Another point worthy of mention to the posters stating that JFT should have been ditched, is that PAF wanted to have a fighter it could play around with. It has tinkered in so many little ways with this fighter and the result is a pretty efficient light weight fighter with a decent range and a price which is affordable. The other aspect is the success of the ideas on JFT have translated on to J10 and even J20, so all in all it has not been a futile exercise. A small affordable fighter at a stingy 500 million investment, where have you heard of that ? It will give PAF what it never had BVR capabilitiesand a lot of modern facilities which we could not have dreamt of . Even at a difference of 10 million per plane, you can imagine the strain on our fragile economy with 250 -300 planes to replace.
Araz

Add to that the gem of indigenisation. India could have bought any aircraft from anywhere in the world but they've been trying everything that they can to get the Tejas into service. With the puny air force that the Swedes have they would have been allot better off buying the Typhoon or the Rafael. And then theres the export potential that the JF-17 has. The Thunder is a step towards home grown production which in its own right is priceless.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Applying the same logic, Tejas and Arjun should have been buried 3 decades ago.

Thanks 1st Pakistani to point out a Crucial demerit of PAF....... the "ego" factor 1st F-16 and then JF-17.... thanks for pointing out !!
Its still hard to understand that if J-10A is available why not buy them 1st....... most of the AF would prefer top of line fighters to decorate their ranks 1st and then 2nd or 3rd line would would follow....... even then IMHO PAF should go all out for J-10A even now induct 4-5 squadrons at least or may be up to 7......if possible.... that would really change the picture which even 300 JF-17s won't do....... Planes are upgraded and modernized with new technologies...... so J-10A would be growing in capabilities with time.... If funds are provided by government....... One more thing about China soft loans....... In world politics there no give give only....... there's a take also...... and in case of China the take would be with added interest.... feel free to disagree/argue.

 

[DARKY]

If you would bother to read my post in reply to Khan Sahib, you would understand why PAF has not gone all out for the J10's. If it were up to the PAF, they would fly nothing short of Raptors and Typhoons but with a defence budget of less than $10 billion for the entire Armed Forces, there is only so much you can do.

Point Defence Role that the JF17 was envisioned to fullfill, if that task was handed over to the J10's, there is nothing off value that the J10's would add as compared to the JF17. This is something that you fanboys need to understand, its not about having the most shiniest new toy, its about fulfilling the requirement under the budget that has been allotted for the project. You would have a valid argument if the PAF was filling JF17 with its higher end fighters, obviously for offense oriented roles the J10 is better served and that is exactly what the PAF is acquiring it for.

Pakistan had a better economic situation back then in 2002-2004 Musharraf Era...... some where I read in this forum that it was among the best economical eras..... when a Fighter such as J-10A which would've cost about 30-35 million US $$ a piece would have been an ideal acquisition...... but JF-17 was persisted..... I turn back to back old day here in this forum when people thrashed Tejas as a paper plane and JF-17 a real one(I blame no one for that even I felt that way during those times)..... in those 2006-08 debates..... how many JF-17 inducted till now??....... about one squadron with second completing its induction this year perhaps..... how much money was spent from that 10 billion US $ on JF-17??....... now just take the case of China shipping the J-10A which was already developed and being inducted around 2006-2007..... they could have easily exported about 2 squadrons till now...... besides you people do talk about Friendship and Soft loans....etc.

If I am not wrong currently JF-17 costs around 20-25 million US $$ a piece.

If Budget was the problem back then...... then its hard to believe it is still not a bigger problem now.

 

[DARKY]

Applying the same logic, Tejas and Arjun should have been buried 3 decades ago.

I don't understand what are you trying to prove out of your self here......

.......Tejas is a 3rd line fighter replacing the old Mig 21 and it is being inducted since we already have Su 30MKIs as 1st and Mig 29/M-2K as 2nd and would add PAK FA to 1st and MMRCA to 2nd in coming years......

......Arjun would be the top of line in the armor/mechanized divisions leading from front and taking the out the most crucial part of an armor thrust..... i.e. taking hits from enemy tanks and their anti-tank missiles along with T-90...... with T-72 forming 2nd line of attack.... and thats why Army has placed orders for about 500 such tanks which would increase up to 800-1000.

 

[S10]

Now Where Is S10 I Hope he Read The Translation

Well, this is the confirmation again, i wonder what S 10 might say about this? Anyway, either A or B, J-10 is a formidable fighter indeed.

Obviously it's a choice between who you put your trust in. Huzhigeng, who personally works on these projects or a news source in Pakistan. Personally, the notion that Pakistan would receive J-10B within the next two years is quite ridiculous to me, as it is highly improbable that China would place PAF ahead of its own air force. The fact that China is facing increasing pressure from South China Sea would also work against Pakistan receiving early delivery of J-10B.

 

[S10]

Pakistan had a better economic situation back then in 2002-2004 Musharraf Era...... some where I read in this forum that it was among the best economical eras..... when a Fighter such as J-10A which would've cost about 30-35 million US $$ a piece would have been an ideal acquisition...... but JF-17 was persisted..... I turn back to back old day here in this forum when people thrashed Tejas as a paper plane and JF-17 a real one(I blame no one for that even I felt that way during those times)..... in those 2006-08 debates..... how many JF-17 inducted till now??....... about one squadron with second completing its induction this year perhaps..... how much money was spent from that 10 billion US $ on JF-17??....... now just take the case of China shipping the J-10A which was already developed and being inducted around 2006-2007..... they could have easily exported about 2 squadrons till now...... besides you people do talk about Friendship and Soft loans....etc.

If I am not wrong currently JF-17 costs around 20-25 million US $$ a piece.

If Budget was the problem back then...... then its hard to believe it is still not a bigger problem now.

Corrections

1. J-10A entered service in 2004 in limited numbers for trials. Mass production did not start until 2006. At about 35 planes per year and the number of aircrafts needed replacement in PLAAF, no way Pakistan would have 2 squadron by now had they placed the order in 2006.

2. JF-17 costs China about $8 million in 2008 terms. Considering Pakistan opted for more advanced avionics, radar as well as inflation factor, even double that price would be quite cheap.

 

[S10]

More updates:

歼10B前两批入役是装毛子的AL--31FN。。。以后的几批次会装上太行。。。。。还有主动相控阵。。。歼10B每几个批次内部设备都有点不同。。。

"J-10B's first two batches will be equipped with AL-31FN. After those, the following ones will be equipped with Taihang (WS-10A) engine, as well as AESA. There will be slight upgrades in between multiple batches."

Link: http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1196504&page=5#pid30856785

 

[HongWu]

More updates:


"J-10B's first two batches will be equipped with AL-31FN. After those, the following ones will be equipped with Taihang (WS-10A) engine, as well as AESA. There will be slight upgrades in between multiple batches."

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Those kind of changes warrant a new name, the one with Taihang and AESA should be called J-10C. So it's confirmed that J-10B still uses AF-31FN and has PESA instead of AESA. This is okay considering that J-10B is entering service now.

 

[S10]

Those kind of changes warrant a new name, the one with Taihang and AESA should be called J-10C. So it's confirmed that J-10B still uses AF-31FN and has PESA instead of AESA. This is okay considering that J-10B is entering service now.

Did you not read post #154? China has never operated PESA and does not plan to, so no J-10B has no PESA. The first two batches will probably still be equipped with mechanical array.

 

[araz]

Add to that the gem of indigenisation. India could have bought any aircraft from anywhere in the world but they've been trying everything that they can to get the Tejas into service. With the puny air force that the Swedes have they would have been allot better off buying the Typhoon or the Rafael. And then theres the export potential that the JF-17 has. The Thunder is a step towards home grown production which in its own right is priceless.

As I have said the benefits are many and certainly the effort has been worth our while. PAF is extremely happy with the plane and this is all that matters.
Araz

 

[Zabaniyah]

Those kind of changes warrant a new name, the one with Taihang and AESA should be called J-10C. So it's confirmed that J-10B still uses AF-31FN and has PESA instead of AESA. This is okay considering that J-10B is entering service now.

Isn't the J-10C a twin-engined carrier variant? J-10B is to be AESA capable - otherwise in case it was only PESA, it would be pointless.

 

[araz]

Pakistan had a better economic situation back then in 2002-2004 Musharraf Era...... some where I read in this forum that it was among the best economical eras..... when a Fighter such as J-10A which would've cost about 30-35 million US $$ a piece would have been an ideal acquisition...... but JF-17 was persisted..... I turn back to back old day here in this forum when people thrashed Tejas as a paper plane and JF-17 a real one(I blame no one for that even I felt that way during those times)..... in those 2006-08 debates..... how many JF-17 inducted till now??....... about one squadron with second completing its induction this year perhaps..... how much money was spent from that 10 billion US $ on JF-17??....... now just take the case of China shipping the J-10A which was already developed and being inducted around 2006-2007..... they could have easily exported about 2 squadrons till now...... besides you people do talk about Friendship and Soft loans....etc.

If I am not wrong currently JF-17 costs around 20-25 million US $$ a piece.

If Budget was the problem back then...... then its hard to believe it is still not a bigger problem now.

The Sino- PAk partnership was worth 500 million to each party. This is the investment in JFT .The price would be for batch 2 with AESA. You would I am sure understand that even at that price it is still a steal.
I have written at length about the TTejas on the forum. I still dont think it was ever a foolish endeavour and even in failure the IAF and the Indian Aviation industry will come out all the better for it.

 

[Mani2020]

Oh great so after so many years people are still in Dilemma whether JF-17 was a good program to persist with or not , so for that another thread is being ruined and trollers are really getting a chance to troll rather they are being invited with open arms and above all it feels awful to know that none other than Think tanks and Senior members themselves are feeding them

 

[HongWu]

Isn't the J-10C a twin-engined carrier variant? J-10B is to be AESA capable - otherwise in case it was only PESA, it would be pointless.

There is no confirmed J-10C yet. There are speculations on a carrier variant. Yes, of course J-10B is designed to hold an AESA, look at the canted nose. But if the AESA is not ready for the first J-10B production this year, instead we are stuck with slotted array, that would be disappointing. What's the point of J-10B if it is still AL-31FN and slotted array? The only difference then is the DSI intakes. I'd rather PLAAF go from slotted array to PESA to AESA, but sometimes skipping an entire technology generation is the best way.