News from within CAC (J-10B and J-20, also Pakistan related)

[Imran Khan]

When I first found about about the J-10 from Wikipedia in 2009 ... I heard they were going to be delivered around 2010 ? Am I right ?
If yes why was the order delayed till 2014-15 ? Sorry if this has been asked time and time again ?

nope you get wrong info sir it was 2013 or some times 2014 by the name of fc-20 for PAF.

 

[Jango]

Sir
Its not about me or my types being happy or sad !!.....The issue I wanted to put forward has decided the fate of many good organisations intended with a very good vision and lot of zeal in the beginning showing a lotta promise in future........ most of the time they were analogous to their Indian counterparts or vice versa.....which is quiet obvious but time and again the military dependence of the Pakistan Govt. diverted the funds towards better weapon acquisition........If I am not wrong 80s was an era when Prosperity was seen in the Pakistan economy and India was burning..... didn't posses any big threat to Pakistan other than Kashmir or Siachen..... the funds could have been used on organisations for space research etc......but the Military mindset got better of the Govt. and Huge acquisition of military hardware was done...... spending a lot of money...... Isn't it that we two started on same condition but ISRO can launches and manufactures foreign satellites and NESCOM is yet to make one for local use....... yes we had resources on our part but you too had enough to sustain a profitable development...... WWII devastated Japan.... If it were to be hell bound on revenge..... then it would have spent lavishly on military sidelining any scientific development.... and by now it would have been the 3rd or 4th strongest superpower..... but the people kept military secondary and concentrated on development of technology which has paid off and they own one of the best defensive forces in the whole World.

my good man, japan did not have WoT, uncle sam knocking on it's doors all the time, and most of all, it was not placed in such a volatile piece of the globe. So it would be unfair to compare Japan and Pakistan. Although i agree with you that we should get our heads down adn start working towards prosperity and the common man should also play a bigger role , people should put some common sense in some things. We blame wardens for most of our traffic problems but dont think that the guy is on 12 hour duty and he is exhausted, we dont think about the problems when we cut a queue, but rather blame evryone else.

We did wanted gripens, but they had 20% components from US, and we were sanctioned back then, so the mirage was our only option. We trialed the MiG and Su, but they werent up to the mark,

 

[Ssg1956]

Hi,

If pakistan has no money---then why does it need to fight----why not admit that they don't have it----and be done with it---commit a coupe de grace-----make peace-----nobody would want to conquer pakistan---give away your nukes in favour of nuclear energy plants----. Our nukes give us a position of strength---make a bargain for the sake of pakistan and pakistanis----if you can't buy better weapons than your enemy.

Pakistan don't want to turn into another Gaza!

 

[Ssg1956]

Double posted

 

[araz]

Araz,

You can make a decision for yourself as an arm chair general----but please let me decide my fate ----. PAF has no cloak of safety---it has no bvr capable plane to give someone a run for the money except for blk 52-----wars are not fought on the basis of giving someone run for their money---because that is a looser's proposition-----. And stop kissing paf's behind all the time-----.

PAF is a known liar----and a known braggart---they have failed the nation on many an occassion---the nation sacrificed its money and soul for these high flyers lying pilots----for years and years----they first deceived the nation with the F 16 fiasco / sanctions---they screwed the nation up through the mirage 2k deal---they srcewed the nation again by not buying the right equipment in time----they let the navy be destroyed in karachi harbour by indian missile boats by not acting on the information---.

There is nothing secret that the paf has-----each and everything that they have is known----its capabilities are known----.

Just because they took out the eurofighters in close combat during training----people think the paf is a superstar----who over here is a fool to believe that the other air force will play into paf's strengths.

Past---past is what it is all about----people who don't remember their past have no future----there is no plausible alternative for paf now-----but they had it in the past----if the pak millitary had killed al qaeda at tora bora 9 years ago----there were alternatives of all kinds----. You start playing games with the big boyz---you may trick them and fool them for awhile-----but once they catch onto you----you are done-----.

Araz----stop protecting paf----they need to face the nation one time----they have duped the nation for the longest term----they have deceived the country for the longest-----.

PAF is fortunate that the pakistani public has not caught onto their thing yet----they are still after the army---once th pak public knows about the deceptions of paf----they won't have a place to hide.

MAstan
Fine you make your own decisions. But with regards to the BVR issue, where have you been when the integration of SD10Awith JFT was confirmed by sources.We now have JFTs acting as BVR platforms.We have previously hd M3s with limited BVR capabilites. The point is that the situation has never been ideal. You do the best that you can under the situation. You keep bringing in the M2K episode, inspite of explanations from 2 exPAF officers to the effect that the deal was unmanageable on account of costs. The PAF did go back to the deal but the stakes had been raised again. The F16s rebuy was a logical decision, but the cash payment for it was not. Was this a PAF decision or the Government's? Certainly Benazir took credit for it.So the stupid Government was equally at fault as financial matters would not have been decided by PAF.
I have never said that PAF has not made blunders in the past. But the reason past becomes irrelevant to me is because you cant change it. The biggest lesson PAF has learnt is that self reliance is the only way to go. The avenues to acquire the capabilites are fast shrinking for us and its no longer about finances. If we dont realize that now, we will lose the whole game. PAFs course of action is right and the steps taken in the direction are right, as they could not have started with something too complicated. They have undertaken a simple design and developed it in conjunction with the chinese and it is giving you all the goodies that you wanted. We will progress onto FC20 as projected, This is the best we can achieve under the circumstances.
As to palying with the big boys, it is a curse which we have to live with. We were damned if we did and damned if we did not!! Are you still so convinced that this was not laid out in advance. It does not suit the powers that be to leave Pakistan in a stable state and they are doing their best to destabilize it. I still believe that OBL was done in in 02 as stated by Benazir and the spectre has just been brought back to malign the country a bit more. In many ways the PA is more mad at the US for the fact that they staged it here than the fact that OBL was found in PAkistan.
Takeit or leave it.
By the bye, you are no more patriotic than me as far as Pakistan is concerned. your comments about me towing PAFs line have been disregarded, however, give me a little more credit than that.
Araz

 

[araz]

Araz,

You can make a decision for yourself as an arm chair general----but please let me decide my fate ----. PAF has no cloak of safety---it has no bvr capable plane to give someone a run for the money except for blk 52-----wars are not fought on the basis of giving someone run for their money---because that is a looser's proposition-----. And stop kissing paf's behind all the time-----.

PAF is a known liar----and a known braggart---they have failed the nation on many an occassion---the nation sacrificed its money and soul for these high flyers lying pilots----for years and years----they first deceived the nation with the F 16 fiasco / sanctions---they screwed the nation up through the mirage 2k deal---they srcewed the nation again by not buying the right equipment in time----they let the navy be destroyed in karachi harbour by indian missile boats by not acting on the information---.

There is nothing secret that the paf has-----each and everything that they have is known----its capabilities are known----.

Just because they took out the eurofighters in close combat during training----people think the paf is a superstar----who over here is a fool to believe that the other air force will play into paf's strengths.

Past---past is what it is all about----people who don't remember their past have no future----there is no plausible alternative for paf now-----but they had it in the past----if the pak millitary had killed al qaeda at tora bora 9 years ago----there were alternatives of all kinds----. You start playing games with the big boyz---you may trick them and fool them for awhile-----but once they catch onto you----you are done-----.

Araz----stop protecting paf----they need to face the nation one time----they have duped the nation for the longest term----they have deceived the country for the longest-----.

PAF is fortunate that the pakistani public has not caught onto their thing yet----they are still after the army---once th pak public knows about the deceptions of paf----they won't have a place to hide.

MAstan
Fine you make your own decisions. But with regards to the BVR issue, where have you been when the integration of SD10Awith JFT was confirmed by JFT.We now have JFTs acting as BVR platforms.We have previously hd M3s with limited BVR capabilites. The point is that the situation has never been ideal. You do the best that you can under the situation. You keep bringing in the M2K episode, inspite of explanations from 2 exPAF officers to the effect that the deal was unmanageable on account of costs. The PAF did go back to the deal but the stakes had been raised again. The F16s rebuy was a logical decision, but the cash payment for it was not. Was this a PAF decision or the Government's? Certainly Benazir took credit for it.So the stupid Government was equally at fault as financial matters would not have been decided by PAF.
I have never said that PAF has not made blunders in the past. But the reason past becomes irrelevant to me is because you cant change it. The biggest lesson PAF has learnt is that self reliance is the only way to go. The avenues to acquire the capabilites are fast shrinking for us and its no longer about finances. If we dont realize that now, we will lose the whole game. PAFs course of action is right and the steps taken in the direction are right, as they could not have started with something too complicated. They have undertaken a simple design and developed it in conjunction with the chinese and it is giving you all the goodies that you wanted. We will progress onto FC20 as projected, This is the best we can achieve under the circumstances.
As to palying with the big boys, it is a curse which we have to live with. We were damned if we did and damned if we did not!! Are you still so convinced that this was not laid out in advance. It does not suit the powers that be to leave Pakistan in a stable state and they are doing their best to destabilize it. I still believe that OBL was done in in 02 as stated by Benazir and the spectre has just been brought back to malign the country a bit more. In many ways the PA is more mad at the US for the fact that they staged it here than the fact that OBL was found in PAkistan.
Take it or leave it.
By the bye, you are no more patriotic than me as far as Pakistan is concerned. your comments about me towing PAFs line have been disregarded, however, give me a little more credit than that.
Araz

 

[tomluter]

J10b was mass producted just now, J10b that's with local engine first-flight just days ago. J10b have no time to reach the j-10 arrangement with pakistan partner.

 

[Xracer]

I Saw j11 in The list of Paf AirCraft on WIKI see it your self
Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jungibaaz]

I Saw j11 in The list of Paf AirCraft on WIKI see it your self
Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For future reference
Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, anywhere, so don't always believe it.

PN may have shown interest. But we don't have J-11s, nor did we order them.

 

[khurasaan1]

Pakistan don't want to turn into another Gaza!

is already Gaza,,.....everyday we get bombed by US from air as well as on the ground.......the CIA agents practising their shot on innocent pplz everyday in Karachi and within the whole country.......

 

[A.Muqeet khan]

ha cia agents hired with in Pakistan paid with in Pakistan ! its not the CIA which is at fault its the Pakistani who are at fault

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The integration of Sd10 is just the begining----now it would go through the tests and tribulation of the factor called 'time'---there are no short cuts to a potent and trustworthy weapons system----then they will have to create an operational manual for that as well---to define the parameters of usage and launch----there will be new maintenance and pairing issues that will pop up---plus you ought to have aircraft in abundance as well---.

This track for procurement that the paf has taken is a 'reactive' track----not a pro-active track----. They have been stuck in that reacvtive track for decades now----.


" SSG1956-------Pakistan don't want to turn into another Gaza! "



Agreed----there was no need for a confrontation----but the silence afterwards when the american news media was smashing pakistan to a pulp was deafening-----that is where the commander in chief of pak army faile the nation----nothing has stopped the american generals to make statements againmst pakistan---why could pakistan not clear its position.


" Darky-----Well Its off topic again but I would like to add here that 2 or possibly 3 CBVGs were present near Pakistani coast during the whole operation along with several electronic attack planes airborne in Afghanistan....... to deal with the situation if Pakistan turned hostile on the Infiltrating SEALS....... they were ready for the worst........ and This has been confirmed by some of my American friends".

That was a wise decision by the paf to lay low----.

 

[tomluter]

New pic of j10b with local engine test flight

(How to post picture attachments?)

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

Is paf fighting with itself --- is that why it is happy with this plane----. JF 17 has to date brought nothing to the table---nothing of any significance----sc-rew the experience-----what do you have to fight the enemy with today----just the 18 BLK 52's---.

If Tejas is a failure----it doesnot do anything to IAF----they still had their heads straight----they had aircraft in their possession that could do the job----. Now they can afford the experience in any which way they want to----but if paf claims to do that----they still got their heads stuck in sand.

Darky,

You are right----between 2002 and 2005---pak could have bought anything with cash upfront-----. It was Musharraf / PAF analysis at that time that there would be peace with india---and the jets would be a waste of money----.

What a bunch of 'comical' warriors and planners of the realm of islam----. Who needs enemies when you have the paf to back you and the pakistani generals to plan the things.

you are right about economy issue...regarding musharraf

but you are wrong regarding musharraf idea of peace, he knew more than anyone that if India has a chance to stab us, they will definetly do it..its matter of common sense..
india definetly want the northern areas and water for agriculture..this can only happen at expense of pakistan..
you can doubt me but you cant doubt history .a unprovoked 1971 operation proves that..

musharraf time PAF was more vigilant than ever, they evaluated gripen..it not only brought AWACS but also air re fuelers..60+ f-16 deal was also in mush era that was latter scaled down, FC-20 and jf-17 all grew in mush era

all political govts are a mess in third world countries..it takes time to mature..unfortunately in pakistan people vote for ghosts of benzir and bhutto instead of living people

 

[ziaulislam]

pakistani mirages rose upgrades , f-7pg and jf-17s thunders are all bvr capable and pose a significant threat in case of foreign aggression..atleast on their homeground
anyway i think we could only expect a foreign aggression, if the odds are in very very very much favor to india..