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New world order , FATF and India

paf did not react when americans came to kill osama bin laden. Is it proof of a powerful army?

If you bothered to research it you would know was preplanned …

Besides why would the PAF react ? .. they took off from a Pakistan base flying low. If they were deemed hostile they would have been shot down. ..like what happened to india in kargil they lost 2-3 helicopters against PA man pads.
This policy of the past has come to bite them back. Whether they like it or not or blame the entire world.

like how india supported the northern alliance thugs …and now desperately trying to talk with the taliban ?….

or like when RAW terrorist Yadav was captured and the fake media sites india has been running around people world are not accepting India’s fake claims of terrorism so readily ?…such as india claiming 900 terrorist are at border ready to attack ?…lol
 
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like how india supported the northern alliance thugs …and now desperately trying to talk with the taliban ?….

or like when RAW terrorist Yadav was captured and the fake media sites india has been running around people world are not accepting India’s fake claims of terrorism so readily ?…such as india claiming 900 terrorist are at border ready to attack ?…lol
One aspect is you said vs I said. It has no meaning.

As far as fake news and propaganda as claimed to be exposed by one agency based in the west is again a dubious claim. When a western agency says something against India, it becomes holy grail of truth but a lie when it is against Pakistan. This convenience based truth finding approach doesn’t seem to have had any impact in the real world.

If west has really exposed India then why is not acting against India? Has any power that matters (other than China) said a word against India? You may claim hypocrisy, business interests and many more. But the bottom line is, what action is being taken and visible to everyone. And that action is that one country is in the grey list.
 
Okay. Would you call this America state sponsored terrorism?

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Or India and state sponsored terrorism that cost Rajiv his head?

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Okay. Would you call this America state sponsored terrorism?

View attachment 761186

Or India and state sponsored terrorism that cost Rajiv his head?

View attachment 761187
The difference between Pakistani terrorists and Indian terrorists is that Indians don't harm Westerners whereas Pakistan has been accused of sheltering Osama, the person who harmed a Western country. That crucial difference is what matters. So don't bring up India's role in Sri Lanka.

- PRTP GWD
 
Okay. Would you call this America state sponsored terrorism?
I get your point.
At times an organisation called a terrorist by one may be freedom fighters by others. These lines blur many times.

That is where world opinion matters. When a bigger number of people take a stance then that becomes the truth.

Is BLA a terrorist organisation? It is from Pakistan’s perspective. But they call themselves freedom fighters.

Many a times we may not like the common opinion on the subject. But our likes and dislikes are meaningless.

As far as US goes, it goes around like a hegemon and keeps doing stuff that can’t be done by anyone else including China and Russia. I myself don’t endorse it.
Does it make a difference to them. I guess not.

International standing which comes from money and military power has these side benefits that Pakistan doesn’t seem to have in plenty.
I hope you get the point.
 
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I get your point.
Did you know that almost all the 'terrorists' that America fought in the last 20 years in Af-Pak region and the world media blamed Pakistan actually are products of the 1980s US sponsored jihad against Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Peshawar was ground zero of this opewration and Pearl Continental Hotel in that city was always booked full of 'business people' from America who actually were CIA operatives. Did you know they designed, even wrote jihadi manuels and had them printed by local printing press? CIA even recruited from across the world jihadis? Amongst most famous was a young Osama Bin Laden who went rogue later on.

America created the Frankenstien monster which bit it on 9/11 in New York much as Indian involvement in Tamil insurgency in Sri Lanka bit Rajiv Gandhi.

Pakistan became infamous because America did not want to own up to the mess it had created in 1980s and dumped it on Pakistan. Furthermore because the geography of Af-Pak region was where the whole jihadi venture played out it's effects still resonate today in Pakistan with madaris on every corner.

In fact the very books that are used to teach jihadis were originally copyright of US government. CIA turned to University of Nevraska back in 1980s to prepare these text books. These books are still the ABC of jihadis. Although the blame today is dumped on Pakistan.

University of Nebraska Prepares Jihadi Schoolbooks for Afghan Kids, USAID Distributes.

Story began in 1980 as Ronald Reagan rose to Presidency in USA. Cold War was at peak. Soviet forces entered Afghanistan to "assist" Afghan Government. General Zia Ul Haq ruled neighbouring Pakistan. A plan was hatched to indoctrinate Afghans opposed to their government and Soviets into extremist and highly intolerant Salafi / Wahabi strain of Islam. Saudi money opened Madrasas in areas of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan.Afghan refugees were trained in hordes in violent Jihadist ideology. Osama Bin Laden was drafted by Saudi-USA to organise Islamist resistance. Taliban was born. To teach innocent Afghan children the "fine" points of violent Jihad, Center for Afghan Studies, University of Nebraska, was drafted to produce "suitable" schoolbooks with enough content of militarist Jihad. The books were distributed through USAID. Rest was history. Soviet Union had to hobble out of Afghanistan and disintegrated within couple of years. However, same textbooks were still being redistributed in Afghanistan after George Bush attacked it in October 2001, though UNESCO had prepared schoolbooks really suited to Afghan children's needs rather than that of US administration's. Even a photo of Laura Bush standing in front of a display of the Nebraska books had appeared in American newspapers with the announcement that USAID would pay for "Jihadi" textbooks for Afghan students.



From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad

By Joe Stephens and
David B. Ottaway
March 23, 2002

In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation.

The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code.

As Afghan schools reopen today, the United States is back in the business of providing schoolbooks. But now it is wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism. What seemed like a good idea in the context of the Cold War is being criticized by humanitarian workers as a crude tool that steeped a generation in violence.


Last month, a U.S. foreign aid official said, workers launched a "scrubbing" operation in neighboring Pakistan to purge from the books all references to rifles and killing. Many of the 4 million texts being trucked into Afghanistan, and millions more on the way, still feature Koranic verses and teach Muslim tenets.

The White House defends the religious content, saying that Islamic principles permeate Afghan culture and that the books "are fully in compliance with U.S. law and policy." Legal experts, however, question whether the books violate a constitutional ban on using tax dollars to promote religion.

Organizations accepting funding from the U.S. Agency for International Development must certify that tax dollars will not be used to advance religion. The certification states that AID "will finance only programs that have a secular purpose. . . . AID-financed activities cannot result in religious indoctrination of the ultimate beneficiaries."


The issue of textbook content reflects growing concern among U.S. policymakers about school teachings in some Muslim countries in which Islamic militancy and anti-Americanism are on the rise. A number of government agencies are discussing what can be done to counter these trends.

President Bush and first lady Laura Bush have repeatedly spotlighted the Afghan textbooks in recent weeks. Last Saturday, Bush announced during his weekly radio address that the 10 million U.S.-supplied books being trucked to Afghan schools would teach "respect for human dignity, instead of indoctrinating students with fanaticism and bigotry."

The first lady stood alongside Afghan interim leader Hamid Karzai on Jan. 29 to announce that AID would give the University of Nebraska at Omaha $6.5 million to provide textbooks and teacher training kits.


AID officials said in interviews that they left the Islamic materials intact because they feared Afghan educators would reject books lacking a strong dose of Muslim thought. The agency removed its logo and any mention of the U.S. government from the religious texts, AID spokeswoman Kathryn Stratos said.

"It's not AID's policy to support religious instruction," Stratos said. "But we went ahead with this project because the primary purpose . . . is to educate children, which is predominantly a secular activity."

Some legal experts disagreed. A 1991 federal appeals court ruling against AID's former director established that taxpayers' funds may not pay for religious instruction overseas, said Herman Schwartz, a constitutional law expert at American University, who litigated the case for the American Civil Liberties Union.
 
Did you know that almost all the 'terrorists' that America fought in the last 20 years in Af-Pak region and the world media blamed Pakistan actually are products of the 1980s US sponsored jihad against Soviet Union in Afghanistan? Peshawar was ground zero of this opewration and Pearl Continental Hotel in that city was always booked full of 'business people' from America who actually were CIA operatives. Did you know they designed, even wrote jihadi manuels and had them printed by local printing press? CIA even recruited from across the world jihadis? Amongst most famous was a young Osama Bin Laden who went rogue later on.
I know US role in creating quite a few of these monsters. It is openly accepted fact and does rounds in the world media.

Pakistan also did that to get its own job done. India kept asking the world to act but nothing happened. TILL WHEN? Till it affected the western world. That is the time Pakistan got into the dock. That is the time when Pakistan supported elements became everyone’s problem.
The world powers have an extremely narrow view of large number of such aspects. They act based on what is good or bad for them.

Pakistan got the stick because it thought that it can support such elements who were working against the western powers. Once in limelight and in focus, it is difficult to get out. Comparing with Sudan, Libya, Afganistan etc wouldn’t work.

Pakistan will have to get down to action and ensure that any possibility of any network benefiting from any Pakistan based entity is completely stopped.
 
Pakistan will have to get down to action and ensure that any possibility of any network benefiting from any Pakistan based entity is completely stopped.
The problem Pakistan has had and in fact even now gnaws away at the very existence of the state is Islamism. As the Americans found out Islamism has a very simple view of the world.

  • Dar al Harb
  • Dar al Islam

Home of Islam and home of others. What this means is any Islamist entity can never be fully trusted to remain a purely national cause or remain loyal to particular state. It answers a higher calling - to Allah. It's loyalty is not with Pakistan, Kashmir, Palestine, Turkey, Saudia but universal Muslims or the ummah.

Thus such entities by definition will fuse with other Islamists across the world. A Kashmiri jihadi will soon link up with Palestinian jihadi, a Uighur jihadi, a Chechen jihadi, a Saudi jihadi, out to kick USA out of Arabia etc. This means America/West, Russia, India, Israel and even China will start looking at this as a problem.

This is exactly what has happened to Hafiz Saeed. They are all out to get him because Tel Aviv, New York, Mumbai, Beslan*, London, Kashgar etc all see them as victims of the same hydra headed monster - Islamism. If Kashmir cause had strictly kept itself as a national cause like Kurds did this would not have been issue. Now there is no way out.

*Beslan - Chechen school sttack in Russia
*London - bombings by mostly Pak origin Islamists

Ps. Indeed how did Afghanistan become the target of USA after 9/11. It should have been Saudia Arabia or Egypt as non of the terrorists came from Afghanistan. The reason was Taliban subscribed to Islamism which means they converged with Al- Qaeda which also is Islamist.
 
This is exactly what has happened to Hafiz Saeed. They are all out to get him because Tel Aviv, New York, Mumbai, Beslan*, London, Kashgar etc all see them as victims of the same hydra headed monster - Islamism. If Kashmir cause had strictly kept itself as a national cause like Kurds did this would not have been issue. Now there is no way out.
Agreed.
Few issues become issues only under certain circumstances.
All those converged together to put Pakistan in this difficult situation.
 
Agreed.
Few issues become issues only under certain circumstances.
All those converged together to put Pakistan in this difficult situation.
Secular causes get more traction as compared to religious causes. A religious cause will only get traction among your fellow coreligionists and people from other religions wouldn't find anything to relate to. But secular causes have a more global acceptance. I think @Indus Pakistan is right about Kashmir.
 
To be blunt about it the die hard Muslims or Islamists that includes most of PDF should be proud. From being vaguely 'Pakistani' or some other secular descriptor most of the world has now began to see 'Muslims' as a entity. The world has recognized the ummah. When a Black American Leroy convert in New York who as Mohammed does something Leroys do everyday like slicing a victim with a machete is now blamed on 'Islam'. Thus rise of Islamaphobia which indirectly has reified the existence of Islamic ummah. If I can take vicarious pleasure at what Ertugrul Ghazi did because I identify as a Muslim then I also can get blamed what what Leroy Mohammed did in New York.
 
You believe marines?

This is for your consumption.. we already know deep down how ugly you people really are
one agency based in the west is again a dubious claim

Really? … and independent agency who job is to expose such things..

dubious ? According you ..but to the rest of world including your pals they were embarrassed at Indian lies.
 
Is BLA a terrorist organisation? It is from Pakistan’s perspective

US has listed BLA a terrorist organization. And yes it is a terrorist organization that murders civilians

but for india that is ok since it arms and trains them ..
International standing which comes from money and military power has these side benefits that Pakistan doesn’t seem to have in plenty.

didnt help against China did it ?
 
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