New Pakistan air chief hails F-16s' role in North Waziristan campaign

[Djinn]

If any so-called expert claims that US will activate kill switches, onus of evidence is upon him. He must elaborate how this will be achieved and which networking node enables such move and what sensors will be affected in what way. How backup systems will not kick in and why a multi million dollar machine would turn upside down belly up playing dead. The fact is such people can't tell apart weapons hung under F-16 what to talk of its electronic and EW suite. I would be very interested to know which Squadron flew or failed to fly because of US kill switches. What did exactly aircraft did? Did it talk to pilot or the whole base saw F-16 running around on its own with pilots chasing it till Air Force police finally cornered the F-16 into submission?? Now if the answer is I am don't know then such people should shut up on matters they don't comprehend. Defence technology is highly advanced specialised field. I suggest you read material available on this site and on Internet. Some senior members and professionals here have good knowledge but sometimes they are not entirely sure too. So they seek help from each other.

As far OBL raid, I think PAF made it amply clear as to what has happened. In short, PAF can respond on detection and there was no detection because they used stealth aircraft while flying in mountains. We don't have stealth detection capability nor do any nation in our region. Unless PAF hires some wizards who can do "Kala Jadoo" on stealth, at the moment this is how it is.

PAF was not involve in Salala incident and Army Chief said so. It is easy to blast PAF for every incident but military hardware can do what it can do. You have to buy a lot of sophisticated radars, SAMs and Fighters to guard every inch. You have to mount 24/7 AWACS that too in sufficient numbers to cover every kilometer of our mountainous terrain. That means lot of money to buy hardware and sustain such operation in peace time for indefinite period. Almost equal to wartime expenses.

As far Argentine-France thing, well here are few facts. Argentine sunk UK's HMS Sheffield using French Super Entendard aircraft carrying French Exocet missiles which were given position of HMS Sheffield byFrench Agave radars mounted on Super Etendard. Initial fix on HMS Sheffieldwas provided by US built P-2 Neptune maritime surveillance aircraft built by Lockheed and operated by Argentinian Navy. Super Etendard aircraft were refuelled enroute by HC-130, a US built aircraft. Two Exocets were fired at HMS Sheffield. Victim ship never picked attacking aircraft and only made aware of attack when it picked up smoke of sea skimming approaching Exocets; too late for any meaningful evasive manoeuvre. One Exocet missed the ship by half a mile while second one achieved hit, penetrating the hull and leading to sinking of HMS Sheffield. With this performance, world had good reason to buy French weapons!

Quite a simpleton way to redirect the point at hand is to blow things out of proportion. Nobody even mentioned "Kill switches" So some one who thinks, he is "know it all" should brush up on his comprehension skills before going berserk with his per-conceived beliefs. No body has to get into nitty-gritty of things to determine what is quite obvious and simple to grasp. Your blinkered reply is talking lengths about "Kill switches" when they were not mentioned anywhere in my post.......What has escaped your understanding is the simple fact that Americans being manufacturers of that equipment knows things inside & out and sabotaging anything is a walk in the park for them. They even keep tabs on where their equipment is stationed in Pakistan and that again puts Pakistan at a disadvantage....Now for that i wont claim anything at my discernment, so kindly google America's stance on the equipment sold to Pakistan and you'll know what the ground realities are. I know how to seek reliable info, so spare me this pseudo intellectuals tirade about listening to fanyboys, if it works for you and i clearly can see it does, all i have to say is ''Good for you".
Knowing that Chinese do have anti-stealth radars, there goes your "enlightening" statement down the dust bin. Speaking of OBL raid, stealthy nonexistent choppers story is quite speculative, so let's stick with what can be proven.
Pakistan's lack of response to Salala attacks speaks for itself, so lets not shove "i believe so" theories here.
Evading the real matter, wont do your flawed stance any favors. Fact is France made available to Britain Super-Etendard and Mirage aircraft - which it had supplied to Argentina - so Harrier pilots could train against them. Source codes and radar info of Exocet's was also shared and not to mention the capital point; The French embargoed the sale of Exocet at the most critical time.....................If you think this boosted French image as a reliable arms supplier then you need to think harder.

 

[Paksanity]

Americans being manufacturers of that equipment knows things inside & out and sabotaging anything is a walk in the park for them.

How will they achieve it? Be specific please for the sake of our education.

stealthy nonexistent choppers story is quite speculative, so let's stick with what can be proven.

Radars work on the principle of line of sight hence can't see in valleys. Terrain shielding is used to avoid radar detection. AEW&C and AWACS are useful against terrain shielding. Use of stealth is not just myth, it is a working technology and US leads in it.

Pakistan's lack of response to Salala attacks speaks for itself, so lets not shove "i believe so" theories here.
Evading the real matter

Please educate us on real matter. What really happened with PAF on Salala incident night. We accept our ignorance and wish to be enlightened, please.

Knowing that Chinese do have anti-stealth radars

Please specify name and type. Obviously you know. I will be very interested to know what technique it uses to achieve this. How did it fare in real tests?

 

[Djinn]

How will they achieve it? Be specific please for the sake of our education.



Radars work on the principle of line of sight hence can't see in valleys. Terrain shielding is used to avoid radar detection. AEW&C and AWACS are useful against terrain shielding. Use of stealth is not just myth, it is a working technology and US leads in it.



Please educate us on real matter. What really happened with PAF on Salala incident night. We accept our ignorance and wish to be enlightened, please.



Please specify name and type. Obviously you know. I will be very interested to know what technique it uses to achieve this. How did it fare in real tests?

1. There is info about it all over the internet, let google guide you.
2. Never denied stealth tech, but those OBL raid stealthy heli's are yet to prove their existence officially.
3. Those, who are not devoid of grey matter, can see things through.However, this is the one your were inquiring about: JY-26 “Skywatch-U” 3-D Chinese long-range air surveillance radar.

Conclusion: All the points above are not related to my original post and such irrelevant queries wont be entertained again. The main focus still remains intact that America is an unreliable arms supplier & Pakistan should lay not one iota of trust in American tech.

 

[vitalsign]

hey indian are you ashamed of your flag?

What?

 

[airmarshal]

F-16 Block 52 and MLUed F-16 are extremely capable aircraft. No Chinese platform, even new one can match its capability.

here is the link if u want it but its not the official release so take it with pinch of salt.
The Aviationist » Operation Neptune's Spear explained
this is one site many other are also expressing the fact that they used the growler.

Ex-intelligence man told US about Osama’s hideout: author

 

[Viper0011.]

Radars work on the principle of line of sight hence can't see in valleys. Terrain shielding is used to avoid radar detection. AEW&C and AWACS are useful against terrain shielding. Use of stealth is not just myth, it is a working technology and US leads in it.

HUH??? Radars work on broad spectrum radio waves...... line of sight systems are like the Infra Red and the LASER. When you go beyond their line of sight, they don't work.

Radars coverage and loss of signal due to mountains, etc, is a different issue all together. Good radars can still spread enough waves that from a higher elevation, they can manage to cover hundreds of miles of area, even in a hilly terrain.

 

[Paksanity]

HUH??? Radars work on broad spectrum radio waves...... line of sight systems are like the Infra Red and the LASER. When you go beyond their line of sight, they don't work.

Radars coverage and loss of signal due to mountains, etc, is a different issue all together. Good radars can still spread enough waves that from a higher elevation, they can manage to cover hundreds of miles of area, even in a hilly terrain.

Radar waves are electromagnetic pulses which follow straight line hence the term line of sight. Radars can not see behind a physical obstacle like hills no matter how powerful. IR systems are passive in nature and rely on source emitted energy for detection and still require line of sight (does not imply human vision here). Idea of AWACS is to lift the radar up in air to give it Line of Sight to larger area and valleys. Output power and environmental attenuation is another factor so is target's RCS.

 

[Viper0011.]

Radar waves are electromagnetic pulses which follow straight line hence the term line of sight. Radars can not see behind a physical obstacle like hills no matter how powerful. IR systems are passive in nature and rely on source emitted energy for detection and still require line of sight (does not imply human vision here). Idea of AWACS is to lift the radar up in air to give it Line of Sight to larger area and valleys. Output power and environmental attenuation is another factor so is target's RCS.

1) RF (Radio Frequency) travels in a straight line.....BUT, line of sight means what's visible to an object A directly in front of its area of visibility. Straight Line vs. Line of Sight are two entirely different and at times, opposite poles. A plane doesn't have to be in front of a Radar to get detected. If so was the case, the line of sight may be accurate.

2) Any detection mechanism, whether Radar or IR or LASER, uses frequency modulation in some shape or form, from the target object to identify its location. LASER illuminates a target in terms of putting its own emission onto a target. Radar sends RF in different spectrum, when it hits a target, some of the waves are calculated back, thus forming a "blip" on the screen.

3) IR is Passive detection and you are right about that. But Radars can do passive detection also, with a focused "receiving unit", which detects an objects own RF modulation whether due to metal or RF being emitted or counting signals the objects absorbed (Stealth jets), and therefor using the gap in returning frequency...

Here, read this up for basic understanding of Radars and how the RF works:

http://tscm.com/rdr-hori.pdf

 

[Viper0011.]

yes PAF want more F16 rather than to procure new type of aircraft

I've been saying it for years. Get used F-16's less than half the cost and in numbers, you'd strengthen your air defense overnight. For $ 20 mil a pop (if you could negotiate it to that level), you could afford to get 50 block 40+ -16's for a billion. Plus another quarter to half a billion on spares and weapons, it'll turn the PAF with 125 BVR -16's. That's a heck of a number to mess with. With advanced AMRAAMS, etc, its going to keep others at bay. Add 200 JFT block II and III and some Chinese Stealth jets. That's a force of 450 to 500 bvr jets and advanced with current standards.
Add older Mirages and F-7's for point defense and war time needs, the PAF may be operating over 600 jets and that's a heck of a number.

 

[MilSpec]

I've been saying it for years. Get used F-16's less than half the cost and in numbers, you'd strengthen your air defense overnight. For $ 20 mil a pop (if you could negotiate it to that level), you could afford to get 50 block 40+ -16's for a billion. Plus another quarter to half a billion on spares and weapons, it'll turn the PAF with 125 BVR -16's. That's a heck of a number to mess with. With advanced AMRAAMS, etc, its going to keep others at bay. Add 200 JFT block II and III and some Chinese Stealth jets. That's a force of 450 to 500 bvr jets and advanced with current standards.
Add older Mirages and F-7's for point defense and war time needs, the PAF may be operating over 600 jets and that's a heck of a number.

PAF Should Stop Purchase of Any New F 16's

 

[fatman17]

That means we have 5 Squadrons now

9
11
5
19

 

[Storm Force]

I've been saying it for years. Get used F-16's less than half the cost and in numbers, you'd strengthen your air defense overnight. For $ 20 mil a pop (if you could negotiate it to that level), you could afford to get 50 block 40+ -16's for a billion. Plus another quarter to half a billion on spares and weapons, it'll turn the PAF with 125 BVR -16's. That's a heck of a number to mess with. With advanced AMRAAMS, etc, its going to keep others at bay. Add 200 JFT block II and III and some Chinese Stealth jets. That's a force of 450 to 500 bvr jets and advanced with current standards.

125 F16 mlu/52
125 Thunderrs Mk1/mk2

is realistic by 2020

500 BVR with chinease stealth jets is a little fantasy

ITS NOT JUST BUYING THEM .. MORE maintaining them, buying the weapons, having the pilots, fuel and the maintenance budgets.

in perspective PAF airforce budget this year $1.5 billion

Indian Air force budget $12 billion

PLAAF airforce budget $35 billion.

 

[black-hawk_101]

PAF needs to order at least 32-52 f16 block52s. Also needs to have more than 70 used f16s too keeping future in mind.