New Modified Z-10ME Attack Helicopter

[Dazzler]

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[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'm not talking about anyone's work, if you can't do anything now, you can do it in the future, this information is not descended from the sky. They are angry because T129 was chosen in the project, but there is a situation they cannot understand, if a force wants a light class helicopter instead of a heavy class, it requires high altitude with its maneuverability because it has a mountainous country.

In Pakistan, money is definitely tight. But unlike Turkey, money is also wasted or not spent properly in Pakistan. You see, in Turkey, whenever your military does business of any kind (e.g., the pension fund), you leave its management to business experts. So, all that investment that goes into that fund comes out in the form of profit, which then goes to support your pensions as well as other business ventures. In Pakistan, these same entities are run by people who aren't the best business experts available, so, these ventures end up under-performing relative to potential, or possibly worse, but we won't know due to the lack of transparency in these matters.

In just the situation above alone, Pakistan could have lost $1-2 billion US in earning potential. Now multiply that across 5 or 10 issues, and you see where I am coming from. There is no way a country with 200 m people and such geo-strategic positioning can earn so little. There's clearly a problem of corruption, ineptitude, and waste.

Unlike Turkey, Pakistan has done nothing to leverage offsets (even when it did pay in cash, e.g., the F-16 Block-52+) to grow its industrial base, expand STEM, etc. These are the steps necessary to convert the raw potential into real cash, we aren't taking those steps.

Which brings me back to my very first point. Yes, it takes hard cash to co-invest in any of Turkey's projects. But Pakistan can make trade-offs internally to bring that cash and expertise to the table (it can invest in building it up, e.g., AvRID).

The only issue is that it comes at the cost of importing in the short-term, which for a few reasons (some valid, some not valid) our decision-makers will not do.

I mean, we can say, "oh the Cobras are too old, they're falling apart..."

OK.

But we could have started solving this issue back in 2002 by investing in China's Z-19E project. I was here on this forum and on PakDef back in 2006-2007 as a 16-yr old kid saying that could be a solution.

So, we dropped the ball on the past, and are paying for it in the present. But rather than solving the problem for the future, we are now sacrificing the future so that we can cover up our past mistake. This is the problem because we'll be stuck in the same cycle.

Yes, we can bring up the threat of another Balakot Operation or Indian adventure to the table. Fine. But that isn't directly related to the Z-10ME. Logically, it will require a few months (or 1-2 years) to induct the Z-10MEs anyways, so in mean time, India can act before then too. For Balakot, we can only count on the assets we have.

 

[Maxpane]

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sir i dnt get it. is it hitting the taget ?

 

[ziaulislam]

In Pakistan, money is definitely tight. But unlike Turkey, money is also wasted or not spent properly in Pakistan. You see, in Turkey, whenever your military does business of any kind (e.g., the pension fund), you leave its management to business experts. So, all that investment that goes into that fund comes out in the form of profit, which then goes to support your pensions as well as other business ventures. In Pakistan, these same entities are run by people who aren't the best business experts available, so, these ventures end up under-performing relative to potential, or possibly worse, but we won't know due to the lack of transparency in these matters.

In just the situation above alone, Pakistan could have lost $1-2 billion US in earning potential. Now multiply that across 5 or 10 issues, and you see where I am coming from. There is no way a country with 200 m people and such geo-strategic positioning can earn so little. There's clearly a problem of corruption, ineptitude, and waste.

Unlike Turkey, Pakistan has done nothing to leverage offsets (even when it did pay in cash, e.g., the F-16 Block-52+) to grow its industrial base, expand STEM, etc. These are the steps necessary to convert the raw potential into real cash, we aren't taking those steps.

Which brings me back to my very first point. Yes, it takes hard cash to co-invest in any of Turkey's projects. But Pakistan can make trade-offs internally to bring that cash and expertise to the table (it can invest in building it up, e.g., AvRID).

The only issue is that it comes at the cost of importing in the short-term, which for a few reasons (some valid, some not valid) our decision-makers will not do.

I mean, we can say, "oh the Cobras are too old, they're falling apart..."

OK.

But we could have started solving this issue back in 2002 by investing in China's Z-19E project. I was here on this forum and on PakDef back in 2006-2007 as a 16-yr old kid saying that could be a solution.

So, we dropped the ball on the past, and are paying for it in the present. But rather than solving the problem for the future, we are now sacrificing the future so that we can cover up our past mistake. This is the problem because we'll be stuck in the same cycle.

Yes, we can bring up the threat of another Balakot Operation or Indian adventure to the table. Fine. But that isn't directly related to the Z-10ME. Logically, it will require a few months (or 1-2 years) to induct the Z-10MEs anyways, so in mean time, India can act before then too. For Balakot, we can only count on the assets we have.

i would argue the time for z10urgency is gone, i doubt it will pay any role in short conflict with india..it will be the airforce..i doubt even tanks would play any role

look at navy they bought off the shelf type 54(smart move since it will be very cheap) and than went in and invested in turkish tot ships to build up its base..PAF sticking to thunder

but army which should be the first to indigenize hasn't even build an artillery by itself..forget about tanks, tank engines, trucks, IFV, a rifle etc..

we are ages behind india

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

i would argue the time for z10urgency is gone, i doubt it will pay any role in short conflict with india..it will be the airforce..i doubt even tanks would play any role

look at navy they bought off the shelf type 54(smart move since it will be very cheap) and than went in and invested in turkish tot ships to build up its base..PAF sticking to thunder

but army which should be the first to indigenize hasn't even build an artillery by itself..forget about tanks, tank engines, trucks, IFV, a rifle etc..

we are ages behind india

Yep. Agreed. The PN and PAF are doing it correctly.

The PA can start working on the next-generation of armour, artillery, etc too.

So, for example, Ukraine is developing a next-gen MBT, tracked IFV, rockets, LACMs, etc. Likewise, South Africa is flush with artillery technology (e.g., T5-52, G6, G7 LEO, etc) and SAMs (Umkhonto EIR, ER, etc). And Turkey is obviously working on attack, utility and transport helicopters, wheeled LAVs, etc.

Each one of those countries came to us at an official level inviting us to participate. In fact, what's hilarious is that we could relate to each of these countries in unique and various ways:

Turkey --> there's an underlying religious connection
South Africa --> they understand sanctions, chronic lack of funds, etc
Ukraine --> can't trust USA/Europe, always left alone

The groundwork is there. We just have to work based on vision and proactive long-term planning, not reactionary, ad hoc spending.

In fact, you can think along the same lines with China too. It just means you have to take an alternative (but equally workable) approach.

Basically, tell China that you are willing to buy an integrated defence solution at a specific price-point (i.e., lower than any other supplier).

So, get a good load of VT4s, VN1s, SH15s, Z-10MEs, tactical BMs, and whatever else in enough numbers to throw off India's IBGs. Build enough capability at a low enough cost so that you can put the rest of the money towards domestic R&D.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

sir i dnt get it. is it hitting the taget ?

It hit the target. Keep your eye on the red crosshair in the white box.

 

[Maxpane]

It hit the target. Keep your eye on the red crosshair in the white box.

thanks

 

[Surya 1]

look good lets test again

Turkey la chopper lo Khan saheb. Yes to Himalaya mai ud hi nahi Santa. This one has less than halh of power to weight ratio of LCH. Don't waste money. Turkey la chopper badhiya hai.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Turkey la chopper lo Khan saheb. Yes to Himalaya mai ud hi nahi Santa. This one has less than halh of power to weight ratio of LCH. Don't waste money. Turkey la chopper badhiya hai.

lol@LCH
Now this indian wants to sell his garbage here

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

lol@LCH
Now this indian wants to sell his garbage here

I didn't understand what he said because I don't know Hindi, we've already diverted the messages from the topic enough, but if I claim that T129 is bad and it means HAL LCH is better, I have some words to say, this freak is likely to become a flower on the mountain with friends in the mountain, even if he tries to do half of the maneuvers T129 does. turns. It is a great engineering example to build a bulky helicopter as heavy class and keep the ability to carry weapons at such a level.

 

[Aasimkhan]

I didn't understand what he said because I don't know Hindi, we've already diverted the messages from the topic enough, but if I claim that T129 is bad and it means HAL LCH is better, I have some words to say, this freak is likely to become a flower on the mountain with friends in the mountain, even if he tries to do half of the maneuvers T129 does. turns. It is a great engineering example to build a bulky helicopter as heavy class and keep the ability to carry weapons at such a level.

On one hand Indians are telling their LCH is a world class best attack helicopter on the other hand they are busy buying US and Russian helicopters, what a laughing stock
LCH is the armed version of HAL Dhruv, rest you can read https://www.defenseworld.net/news/1...a_s_Hindustan_Aeronautics__Dhruv__Helicopters