This is a classic case where religion and nationality are mixed up...If Arabs has problem with Iranians and their allies, then in place of Shias, they could have created another check box as friends of Iran and their interests?.....Why do you generalize that all Shias will be supporting Iran?....
New Hajj application asks: ‘Are you Shia?’
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Cheetah786
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Its not weakening itself, its exposing the hidden hand behind all the Muslim blood shed in the world.
The SiLent crY
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Since a few people have brought 1987 Mecca incident to this thread including usual anti Iran story , I've decided to post it here to help people get what really happened there .
1987 Mecca incident
A clash between Shia pilgrims and demonstrators and the Saudi Arabian security forces during the Hajj pilgrimage, which led to the deaths of over 400 people, occurred in Mecca on 31 July 1987. The event has been variously described as a "riot" or a "massacre." It arose from escalating tensions between Shia Iran and Wahabi Saudi Arabia. Since 1981, Iranian pilgrims had held an annual demonstration against Israel and the United States, but in 1987, a cordon of Saudi police and National Guards had sealed part of the planned demonstration route, leading to a confrontation between them and the pilgrims. This escalated into a violent clash, followed by a deadly stampede. There is a controversy regarding the details of the incident, with both Iran and Saudi Arabia laying much of the blame on the other side. Some sources claim the death toll from the incident was 402 people: 275 Iranian pilgrims, 85 Saudi police, and 42 pilgrims from other nationalities. Other sources claim that more than 400 pilgrims had died, and thousands more injured.
Background
There is a long history of tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab had initiated the destruction of various religious burial sites in Hejaz, and King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud continued with this initiative, destroying parts of the Shiite-revered burial site of Al-Baqi' in 1925. This caused outrage in Iran, with the Iranian government calling for the ouster of ibn Saud, and banning Iranians from performing the pilgrimage in 1927. In 1943, an Iranian pilgrim was beheaded based on Saudi charges that he brought excrement inside the Great Mosque on his garment. Iran lodged a formal protest, and suspended pilgrimage until 1948.
For years, Iranian pilgrims had tried to stage demonstrations called "Distancing Ourselves from Mushrikīn" (برائت از مشرکين) in the Muslim holy city of Mecca during the hajj. These demonstrations had their origins in 1971, when Ruhollah Khomeini instructed his Shiite followers to distribute political messages when performing their pilgrimage. Even though a few Iranians were arrested for this act, the Saudi officials were generally apathetic, as they did not view these political messages to be a threat to the Saudi royalty. The practice of distributing political messages, which were mainly criticism of the United States and Israel, as well as pro-Western governments, continued up until the year 1981.
In 1981, this was escalated into openly chanting political slogans in the Masjid al-Haram and the Prophet's Mosque, two of the holiest sites in Islam, resulting in violent clashes with Saudi security and one death. In the same year, King Khalid of Saudi Arabia wrote a letter to Saddam Hussein saying "crush these stupid Iranians" as Saddam pushed on with the invasion of Iranian territory. It has often been claimed that Iraq recruited non-Iraqi Arabs during the war to balance the far superior number of Iranian forces on the ground.
In the following years, both sides tried to calm the situation: Khomeini urged his followers to maintain peace and order, not to distribute printed political material, and not to criticize Muslim governments. In return, Saudi officials reversed their earlier position and allowed two separate demonstrations to take place: One in Mecca, and the other in Medina.
By 1986, the situation was calm enough for Saudi officials to re-open the sealed al-Baqi' cemetery for Shiite pilgrims, and in response, Khomeini’s representative formally thanked the Saudi King for the gesture. However, on that same year, Iranian radical Mehdi Hashemi was accused of smuggling explosives on an airplane headed for Saudi Arabia, renewing Saudi fears. Further adding to the tensions were the demands made by Mohammad Mousavi Khoeiniha in 1987 to allow the Iranian pilgrims to hold their demonstrations within the Great Mosque itself, and without the presence of security guards. Khoeiniha had been earlier appointed as the supervisor and personal representative of Ayatollah Khomeini for Hajj affairs, but had been expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1982. Even though Mehdi Karrubi, who was Khomeini’s official pilgrimage representative that year, tried to assure Saudi officials that the demonstrations would take place in the usual manner and in the agreed routes, it did little to quell the Saudi fears.
Before the demonstrations started, Khomeini instructed the Iranian pilgrims to maintain peace and remain civil during the pilgrimage.
Demonstrations
On Friday July 31, 1987, the demonstration by Iranian pilgrims against the "enemies of Iran" (including the U.S. and Israel), started amid heightened security. The march was uneventful until towards the end of the planned route, where the demonstrators found their way blocked by Saudi riot police and National Guardsmen. At this point, some of the Iranians began to call for the demonstrations to press ahead and continue to the Great Mosque. While this was happening, unidentified persons began harassing the Iranian pilgrims by throwing bricks and other objects at them from a nearby location. These factors exacerbated the situation, escalating it into a violent clash between the Iranian pilgrims and Saudi security, with the Saudis reportedly using truncheons and electric prods and the Iranians using knives and clubs.
Saudi security personnel reportedly opened fire on the demonstrators, a charge which Saudi officials deny. The rioting, and the resulting stampede caused a reported 402 dead (275 Iranians, 85 Saudis including policemen, and 42 pilgrims from other countries) and 649 wounded (303 Iranians, 145 Saudis and 201 other nationals).
The details of the riot are controversial. Iranian officials maintain that the Saudis had fired on the protesters without provocation, and that the demonstrations had been peaceful. Saudi officials insist that no shots were fired, and that all deaths were caused by the melee and stampede.
Aftermath
On August 1, 1987, a spontaneous demonstration by enraged Iranians ended with attacks on the Kuwaiti and Saudi embassies in Tehran. On the same day, the Iranian leader Khomeini called on Saudis to overthrow the House of Saud to avenge the pilgrims' deaths. In a Washington news conference, the Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan claimed that "not one bullet was fired," blaming the violence on the Iranian pilgrims who he accused of "brandishing knives, clubs and broken glass drawn from beneath their cloaks." According to Dr. Robert O. Freedman, Professor of Political Science at Baltimore Hebrew University: "Later on, however, Iranian officials displayed the bullet wounds in the victims' bodies, which proved that the Saudis had indeed used firearms." Robin Wright also reports that "Many of the Iranian bodies, shown to American and European reporters immediately upon their return to Tehran, had bullet punctures".
Both sides took additional measures to bolster their view on the issue. Saudi Arabia severed ties with Iran and reduced the number of permitted Iranian pilgrims to 45,000, down from 150,000 in earlier years. Iran boycotted the Hajj for three years, from 1988 to 1990.
In 1991, Iran and Saudi Arabia renewed diplomatic relations after coming to an agreement to allow Iranian pilgrims to perform the Hajj once more. The total number of pilgrims was set at 115,000, and the demonstrations were allowed to be held, but only in one specific location granted by the Saudis. Under this agreement, Iranian pilgrims continued their annual demonstration in the 1990s and 2000s with few or no incidents. They limited their rally to within the confines of their compound in Mecca.
1987 Mecca incident
A clash between Shia pilgrims and demonstrators and the Saudi Arabian security forces during the Hajj pilgrimage, which led to the deaths of over 400 people, occurred in Mecca on 31 July 1987. The event has been variously described as a "riot" or a "massacre." It arose from escalating tensions between Shia Iran and Wahabi Saudi Arabia. Since 1981, Iranian pilgrims had held an annual demonstration against Israel and the United States, but in 1987, a cordon of Saudi police and National Guards had sealed part of the planned demonstration route, leading to a confrontation between them and the pilgrims. This escalated into a violent clash, followed by a deadly stampede. There is a controversy regarding the details of the incident, with both Iran and Saudi Arabia laying much of the blame on the other side. Some sources claim the death toll from the incident was 402 people: 275 Iranian pilgrims, 85 Saudi police, and 42 pilgrims from other nationalities. Other sources claim that more than 400 pilgrims had died, and thousands more injured.
Background
There is a long history of tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab had initiated the destruction of various religious burial sites in Hejaz, and King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud continued with this initiative, destroying parts of the Shiite-revered burial site of Al-Baqi' in 1925. This caused outrage in Iran, with the Iranian government calling for the ouster of ibn Saud, and banning Iranians from performing the pilgrimage in 1927. In 1943, an Iranian pilgrim was beheaded based on Saudi charges that he brought excrement inside the Great Mosque on his garment. Iran lodged a formal protest, and suspended pilgrimage until 1948.
For years, Iranian pilgrims had tried to stage demonstrations called "Distancing Ourselves from Mushrikīn" (برائت از مشرکين) in the Muslim holy city of Mecca during the hajj. These demonstrations had their origins in 1971, when Ruhollah Khomeini instructed his Shiite followers to distribute political messages when performing their pilgrimage. Even though a few Iranians were arrested for this act, the Saudi officials were generally apathetic, as they did not view these political messages to be a threat to the Saudi royalty. The practice of distributing political messages, which were mainly criticism of the United States and Israel, as well as pro-Western governments, continued up until the year 1981.
In 1981, this was escalated into openly chanting political slogans in the Masjid al-Haram and the Prophet's Mosque, two of the holiest sites in Islam, resulting in violent clashes with Saudi security and one death. In the same year, King Khalid of Saudi Arabia wrote a letter to Saddam Hussein saying "crush these stupid Iranians" as Saddam pushed on with the invasion of Iranian territory. It has often been claimed that Iraq recruited non-Iraqi Arabs during the war to balance the far superior number of Iranian forces on the ground.
In the following years, both sides tried to calm the situation: Khomeini urged his followers to maintain peace and order, not to distribute printed political material, and not to criticize Muslim governments. In return, Saudi officials reversed their earlier position and allowed two separate demonstrations to take place: One in Mecca, and the other in Medina.
By 1986, the situation was calm enough for Saudi officials to re-open the sealed al-Baqi' cemetery for Shiite pilgrims, and in response, Khomeini’s representative formally thanked the Saudi King for the gesture. However, on that same year, Iranian radical Mehdi Hashemi was accused of smuggling explosives on an airplane headed for Saudi Arabia, renewing Saudi fears. Further adding to the tensions were the demands made by Mohammad Mousavi Khoeiniha in 1987 to allow the Iranian pilgrims to hold their demonstrations within the Great Mosque itself, and without the presence of security guards. Khoeiniha had been earlier appointed as the supervisor and personal representative of Ayatollah Khomeini for Hajj affairs, but had been expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1982. Even though Mehdi Karrubi, who was Khomeini’s official pilgrimage representative that year, tried to assure Saudi officials that the demonstrations would take place in the usual manner and in the agreed routes, it did little to quell the Saudi fears.
Before the demonstrations started, Khomeini instructed the Iranian pilgrims to maintain peace and remain civil during the pilgrimage.
Demonstrations
On Friday July 31, 1987, the demonstration by Iranian pilgrims against the "enemies of Iran" (including the U.S. and Israel), started amid heightened security. The march was uneventful until towards the end of the planned route, where the demonstrators found their way blocked by Saudi riot police and National Guardsmen. At this point, some of the Iranians began to call for the demonstrations to press ahead and continue to the Great Mosque. While this was happening, unidentified persons began harassing the Iranian pilgrims by throwing bricks and other objects at them from a nearby location. These factors exacerbated the situation, escalating it into a violent clash between the Iranian pilgrims and Saudi security, with the Saudis reportedly using truncheons and electric prods and the Iranians using knives and clubs.
Saudi security personnel reportedly opened fire on the demonstrators, a charge which Saudi officials deny. The rioting, and the resulting stampede caused a reported 402 dead (275 Iranians, 85 Saudis including policemen, and 42 pilgrims from other countries) and 649 wounded (303 Iranians, 145 Saudis and 201 other nationals).
The details of the riot are controversial. Iranian officials maintain that the Saudis had fired on the protesters without provocation, and that the demonstrations had been peaceful. Saudi officials insist that no shots were fired, and that all deaths were caused by the melee and stampede.
Aftermath
On August 1, 1987, a spontaneous demonstration by enraged Iranians ended with attacks on the Kuwaiti and Saudi embassies in Tehran. On the same day, the Iranian leader Khomeini called on Saudis to overthrow the House of Saud to avenge the pilgrims' deaths. In a Washington news conference, the Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan claimed that "not one bullet was fired," blaming the violence on the Iranian pilgrims who he accused of "brandishing knives, clubs and broken glass drawn from beneath their cloaks." According to Dr. Robert O. Freedman, Professor of Political Science at Baltimore Hebrew University: "Later on, however, Iranian officials displayed the bullet wounds in the victims' bodies, which proved that the Saudis had indeed used firearms." Robin Wright also reports that "Many of the Iranian bodies, shown to American and European reporters immediately upon their return to Tehran, had bullet punctures".
Both sides took additional measures to bolster their view on the issue. Saudi Arabia severed ties with Iran and reduced the number of permitted Iranian pilgrims to 45,000, down from 150,000 in earlier years. Iran boycotted the Hajj for three years, from 1988 to 1990.
In 1991, Iran and Saudi Arabia renewed diplomatic relations after coming to an agreement to allow Iranian pilgrims to perform the Hajj once more. The total number of pilgrims was set at 115,000, and the demonstrations were allowed to be held, but only in one specific location granted by the Saudis. Under this agreement, Iranian pilgrims continued their annual demonstration in the 1990s and 2000s with few or no incidents. They limited their rally to within the confines of their compound in Mecca.
Al Bhatti
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Add to that, Hezbollah's Pakistan branch is openly recruiting on social media. Maybe one of the many reasons for this move.
BLACKEAGLE
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We Muslims accuse Iran and it's Shiite stooges in Muslim countries of being behind most of the conflicts and bloodshed. Iran is our 1rst enemy.
Stop lying to yourselves, wake up guys. So called "Wahabis" doesn't exist, it's used by Shiite people to fit in as a minority among Muslims. We Muslims have the very same beliefs as the so called "Wahabis" regarding Shiite. If you don't believe me, then look for the way Muslims look at Shiite from Mauritanian in the west to Indonesia in the east, no tolerance for them. For instance Jordan, my country, which is known for being one of the most moderate among Muslim countries doesn't even tolerate Shiite existence.
What does that tell you? Just understand that you are an outcasted minority in the Muslim community. Get this into your thick head.
BLACKEAGLE
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You know, we have an ironic joke about Iran and Shiite who have been shouting and yelling "Death to America and Israel" for 35 years. Some ask when would those Shiite attack America and Israel? All answer, when America and Israel become Muslim countries.
They refer to Iran and it's Shiite stooges destruction in only Muslim countries.
raptor22
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It occurred when Hezboalh kicked out israel from south of Lebanon in 2000 and again in 2006 when israel couldn't invade even one village in south and the Q is where the hell exactlly were you then?
And it's funny 'cause we have an ironic joke about Saudis and Arabs too ... you've got balls to form a coalition to bomb civilian in Yemen but when it comes to Palestine your hands would shake ...
Al Bhatti
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azzo
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I'm disappointing in Pakistan, they have caught the Shiite illness of lies and deceptions. Since the war started there was a campaign by some Pakistani media outlets to tarnish the image of Saudi Arabia.
There is no application for Hajj that asks questions like that, where is it? with the ministry of Hajj logo or any other Saudi official insignia.
This is the official document:
http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/VisaApp.pdf
There is no application for Hajj that asks questions like that, where is it? with the ministry of Hajj logo or any other Saudi official insignia.
Lying as usual, Saudi Arabia is NOT Iran. The link you provided is NOT the official document.
This is the official document:
http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/VisaApp.pdf
Sugarcane
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Read previous posts and try to comprehend instead of pulling guns by looking at flags. And on the application it's clearly written "Washington Section"
azzo
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Saudi itself have Shiite population which Saudi does not discriminate against when it comes to official documents.
And you don't tell me how my country works, since you can't even understand Arabic
Sugarcane
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I know i don't understand Arabic, also know that you can't understand English.
raptor22
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Nice photos, thanks for sharing .... in fact it was American who cut the ties btw 2 countries back 80s, and it was American president who sent a letter to Iran and asked for negotiating over Iran NP ... and since revolution we've always made it clear that if the US changes it policy towards Iran there would be an opportunity to open diplomatic relations base on mutual respect ... "Death to America" really doesn't mean we want them die it's just a slogan to remind us our enemies ... those who done military coup, supporting a dictator and so on ... as Nelson Mandela once said: "We may forgive but we will never forget".
By the way Iran is a soveriegn country and Iranian are in charge to make decision who should we have relation with ... none of your beeswax..
I'm still waiting for official documents released by Iranian DOD about those the so-called photoshops ....
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azzo
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Ok, good come back, so you admit that you were wrong and the point you were making was proved wrong. Good to know. Now go have some fun, oh wait you're in Iran.
Official documents of what?! That Iranian made fake planes? the fact that Iranian generals attended the ceremony of "Qaher" introduction is condemning enough ROFL the denial.
Sugarcane
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Ask someone to help you to understand my posts on this thread.
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