New AH-1Zs are going to be stationed in Multan, Army tender notice reveals

[Basel]

babu I pray to god you are correct
F-16s wont take any thing other than American missiles
and I am not aware if American missiles can be integrated into JF-17s.
but sadly its not true, other options( Chinese clones) dont integrate with F-16s and sacrificing F-16 missiles is borderline lunacy because you are willing to downgrade the F-16 potency on a presumed assumption that our cobras might be able to fire them if opportunities present themselves. Mastan's scenario looks very promising (gunships being able to ambush jets) but there are two issues here, limited number of missiles (for PAF weapon pool) and lack of clarity about our cobra's ability to fire them

PAF have few variants of AIM-9 as they are using it since 80s, that missile is carried by F-16, F-7 and possibly M-3/5s but PAF also had french WVR missiles deployed with M-3/5s while Brazilian WVR & ARM missiles were purchased which can be used on all birds except F-16s also JFT have PL-5Es but they can carry all WVR missiles which PAF have.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

PAF have few variants of AIM-9 as they are using it since 80s, that missile is carried by F-16, F-7 and possibly M-3/5s but PAF also had french WVR missiles deployed with M-3/5s while Brazilian WVR & ARM missiles were purchased which can be used on all birds except F-16s also JFT have PL-5Es but they can carry all WVR missiles which PAF have.

like I said, Amen brother.
so lets move to next assumption that our cobras have the capability yes or no?
if yes then the decision is about the trade off between carrying ground vs air target weapon load and whether asking air support is better option or not. if facing off Indian gunships is highly likely then as a commander I will expect my air defence to take care of them before taking my own gunships there

 

[GriffinsRule]

Wait till you will be schooled about how spanners, seats Helmets and choppper blades can be used for taking out air targets


I am responsible as well for insisting that its a concern (and a very bad situation due to lack of air domination) that a gunship has to sacrifice it's anti armour payload for A2A missiles ( assuming Pak army aviation/ airforce has gunships capable of firing them) when PAF should be providing the air domination

but granted that war is a fluid concept and military is known to be anally obsessed about contingency planning so different military platforms have secondary weapons to address such situations. my objection was with the wording in the original immortal statement which is deemed to be infallible by its creator who suggested that these gunships will be fighting each other instead of taking out their respective ground targets.

cheaper and well tested option below, scored 2 kills in Kargil war.

it is assuming that Pakistani cobras have built in avionics and hard points capable of accommodating these A2A missiles. even if they do then PAF might like to keep them for their own jets who are deployed for the primary purpose of air defense.

Sarcasm is nice but it won't make your point any stronger. And schooling others first require that one be proficient themselves in the matter. AH-1Zs carry the A-A missile on the wingtips, so no space/hardpoints for anti-armor roles are sacrificed. I thought that would be common knowledge for most people here.

Again, you are misrepresenting what I said again, even though you quoted my post earlier. I never said they would be fighting each other instead of taking out ground targets. (Again, comprehension or maybe just blinded by trying to prove your point.) I have since explained what I meant yet you can't seem to move along.
Cobras and Apaches will be pitted against each other because they are both going to be tasked for similar offensive roles against the other sides strike corps and is only sensible to assume that they will encounter each other. Maybe what you are saying is that they will ignore the other enemy helicopters since its not their "main role"?

And yes, I will assume Cobras will have the built in avionics for AAM unless you can prove otherwise. "I heard in the news" doesn't carry any weight, especially since it is not the kind of thing to be reported in a news item anyways.

like I said, Amen brother.
so lets move to next assumption that our cobras have the capability yes or no?
if yes then the decision is about the trade off between carrying ground vs air target weapon load and whether asking air support is better option or not. if facing off Indian gunships is highly likely then as a commander I will expect my air defence to take care of them before taking my own gunships there

http://aemstatic-ww1.azureedge.net/.../2017/02/AH-1Z 8 Feb 2017.jpg.scale.LARGE.jpg

This image should put your fears to rest.

 

[Solomon2]

Seriously? Pakistan bought the copters claiming they were for use against terrorists but they are being based in Multan instead? Why?

 

[Bratva]

Seriously? Pakistan bought the copters claiming they were for use against terrorists but they are being based in Multan instead? Why?

Where should they be placed then before pilots are trained on this machine ? Or you want the pilots to train while hunting terrorists ?

 

[Solomon2]

Where should they be placed then before pilots are trained on this machine ? Or you want the pilots to train while hunting terrorists ?

Good point!

 

[MastanKhan]

Pakistan already have AIM-9 with PAF if US don't sell those for cobras then PA can ask for few from PAF, they have good stock of those, also AH-1Z are already capable of firing them.

Hi,

The issue here is about Pakistani AH1Z's---not AH1Z's---.

Please verify---. Because I remember clearly about the deal---that they will not be air to air missile capable---.

If pakistani AH1Z's are capable---I will take my words back with an apology---.

Seriously? Pakistan bought the copters claiming they were for use against terrorists but they are being based in Multan instead? Why?

Hi,

Multan is the central base---that is where all the training---servicing---integration takes place.

It is just like the Marines here in southern california are based at Camp Pendleton---but are sent to different locations as the need be.

 

[Gryphon]

@MastanKhan @GriffinsRule @Irfan Baloch

The Pakistan AH-1Z package includes Thales TopOwl HMD/S but no AIM-9X. Isn't that a hint?

And then, HOBS AAMs are available from other sources, i.e., A-Darter from South Africa.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan @GriffinsRule @Irfan Baloch

The Pakistan AH-1Z package includes Thales TopOwl HMD/S but no AIM-9X. Isn't that a hint?

And then, HOBS AAMs are available from other sources, i.e., A-Darter from South Africa.

Hi,

Okay---then the question is---is pakistan allowed to add air to air missiles---on the AH1Z---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

So interestingly AH-1W (older model) was the first combat helicopter to introduce the capability of firing A-A missiles. It was able to carry AIM-9L, Mistral or Stingers on the wingtips.

While I have only seen AIM-9M on the AH-1Zs in the pics that are available on the web, it is not to say they are unable to fire the AIM-9Ls that PAF has in plenty. (Did we also order AIM-9M with the F-16C/D purchase?). If anyone comes up with an image of AIM-9X on an AH-1Z, please share the link.

The only legacy missile that the latest iteration of Cobra can not fire is in fact the TOW series of missiles. Maybe those will get use on the T-129 or maybe PA will find a way to keep the older AH-1Fs active. Would be interesting to see.

As a side, Indian order of the Apache does include 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles (2 carried on each wingtip). They are able to carry sidewinders too, however only on hard points under the wing, this taking up room meant for Hellfires or Rockets etc.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Okay---then the question is---is pakistan allowed to add air to air missiles---on the AH1Z---.

Khan ji, first question is will these Pakistani cobras have compatible hard points on their wings to accomodate these missiles or not.
also if there wont be any other components missing in fire control computre and avionics to enable these cobras to fire them?
I have more grim view which pretty much makes this discussion irrelevant because I on stuck on the belief that new American missiles are limited in number and PAF doesnt have the ability to be generous enough to lend them to army aviation on a hypothetical assumption that cobra might use them against Indian jets or other rotary targets if opportunity presents itself

 

[SipahSalar]

Hi,

Okay---then the question is---is pakistan allowed to add air to air missiles---on the AH1Z---.

Yes yes. We have a lot of spare Gunships lying around, lets dedicate some to anti-aircraft role.

Let the PAF handle the enemy Airforce ok? We have very few gunships available as is, lets focus them on countering enemy armor assaults and not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[khanasifm]

?? So reduced and additional verifications before release

Plus grant funded were ah-1z grant funded ?? Or Pak funded they were grant funded ??

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

View attachment 476974

?? So reduced and additional verifications before release

Plus grant funded were ah-1z grant funded ?? Or Pak funded they were grant funded ??

I don't think that they were grant funded! According to my limited knowledge Pakistan ordered 1000 hellfire missiles and these choppers for some 900 million $

 

[Zarvan]

View attachment 476974

?? So reduced and additional verifications before release

Plus grant funded were ah-1z grant funded ?? Or Pak funded they were grant funded ??

What USA is doing is first we used to get some times on reduced prices or USA use to pay to get weapons from their companies. But now they are saying you pay. USA is still open to sell us weapons but they are now saying pay full price