New AH-1Zs are going to be stationed in Multan, Army tender notice reveals

[TOPGUN]

Hi,

It was in the news when pakistan requested to buy these new choppers---.

Got it, I appreciate it sir !!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Air to air missiles give a helicopter powers beyond what it was designed for against far superior FIGHTER aircraft---.

A helicopter hovering above ground behind a mountain---or trees---or a building---a fighter aircraft goes by---the chopper pops up and lets it have one in the ar-se.

It is a real world scenario---specially for a fighter aircraft flying over the urban jungle---a hovering chopper pops up from behind a high rise building and it lets it have it---.

It is a massive force multiplier---our enemy lobby worked really hard for us not to get this ability on our choppers---.

 

[TOPGUN]

Hi,

Air to air missiles give a helicopter powers beyond what it was designed for against far superior FIGHTER aircraft---.

A helicopter sitting behind a mountain---or trees---or a building---a fighter aircraft goes by---the chopper pops up and lets it have one in the ar-se.

It is a massive force multiplier---our enemy lobby worked really hard for us not to get this ability on our choppers---.

Well, that they did indeed not for us to get this ability.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, that they did indeed not for us to get this ability.

Hi,

I am getting old and crusty---so if my answer is rough at times---don't be upset---.

 

[TOPGUN]

Hi,

I am getting old and crusty---so if my answer is rough at times---don't be upset---.

I would never be , be as ease sir

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

It was in the news when pakistan requested to buy these new choppers---.

Now youngsters will demand blood because egos are bruised
They are going at length to prove how everything in a gunship can be used against air targets when their primary purpose is something else
Reminds me of a B movie where war hero sets 3 second timer on time bombs and tosses them at the villains instead of using hand grenades

Well because he bloody can

 

[Maarkhoor]

Now youngsters will demand blood because egos are bruised
They are going at length to prove how everything in a gunship can be used against air targets when their primary purpose is something else
Reminds me of a B movie where war hero sets 3 second timer on time bombs and tosses them at the villains instead of using hand grenades

Well because he bloody can

Won't you think it gave AH-Z ability to defend in case enemy call their jet like Tejas or Mig-21 for close air support?

 

[MastanKhan]

Now youngsters will demand blood because egos are bruised
They are going at length to prove how everything in a gunship can be used against air targets when their primary purpose is something else
Reminds me of a B movie where war hero sets 3 second timer on time bombs and tosses them at the villains instead of using hand grenades

Well because he bloody can

Hi,

I know they will---poor sobs---. Sometimes I feel sorry for them.

The problem is that they assume too much---.

 

[Basel]

Hi Irfan,

These kids are so -----. They assume---and it becomes reality---.

They don't know that Pakistan had been denied air to air missiles on their american choppers by the americans---period.

In simple english---the americans REFUSED---. Now all these boys can argu till they go blue in the face---it ain't gonna change nothing---till the change occurs---.

Pakistan already have AIM-9 with PAF if US don't sell those for cobras then PA can ask for few from PAF, they have good stock of those, also AH-1Z are already capable of firing them.

 

[ziaulislam]

Won't you think it gave AH-Z ability to defend in case enemy call their jet like Tejas or Mig-21 for close air support?

tejas would probably see it well beyond 15-30kms and fire up a BVR

i only see it usefullness if another gunship suddenly pops up

 

[Maarkhoor]

tejas would probably see it well beyond 15-30kms and fire up a BVR

i only see it usefullness if another gunship suddenly pops up

Check @MastanKhan post for better understanding.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Besides just the "word" of some people here, there is no concrete proof that PA AH-1Zs are not capable of A-A engagements or if they were specifically denied that capability, given that its not some new super tech. Given all else that is coming with the chopper, its safe to assume they are completely capable of using Sidewinders as well.

Given the number of transport helicopters that are also fielded by India that would be used to deploy troops and supplies forward, makes it a no-brainer to have AAM on attack helicopters.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi Irfan,

These kids are so -----. They assume---and it becomes reality---.

They don't know that Pakistan had been denied air to air missiles on their american choppers by the americans---period.

In simple english---the americans REFUSED---. Now all these boys can argu till they go blue in the face---it ain't gonna change nothing---till the change occurs---.

Wait till you will be schooled about how spanners, seats Helmets and choppper blades can be used for taking out air targets

Much like the scholars of Baghdad who were arguing who is in the front if 2 people are running around a tree just before Halaku Khan sacked the city

I am responsible as well for insisting that its a concern (and a very bad situation due to lack of air domination) that a gunship has to sacrifice it's anti armour payload for A2A missiles ( assuming Pak army aviation/ airforce has gunships capable of firing them) when PAF should be providing the air domination

but granted that war is a fluid concept and military is known to be anally obsessed about contingency planning so different military platforms have secondary weapons to address such situations. my objection was with the wording in the original immortal statement which is deemed to be infallible by its creator who suggested that these gunships will be fighting each other instead of taking out their respective ground targets.

Given the number of transport helicopters that are also fielded by India that would be used to deploy troops and supplies forward, makes it a no-brainer to have AAM on attack helicopters.

cheaper and well tested option below, scored 2 kills in Kargil war.

Pakistan already have AIM-9 with PAF if US don't sell those for cobras then PA can ask for few from PAF, they have good stock of those, also AH-1Z are already capable of firing them.

it is assuming that Pakistani cobras have built in avionics and hard points capable of accommodating these A2A missiles. even if they do then PAF might like to keep them for their own jets who are deployed for the primary purpose of air defense.

 

[Basel]

Wait till you will be schooled about how spanners, seats Helmets and choppper blades can be used for taking out air targets

Much like the scholars of Baghdad who were arguing who is in the front if 2 people are running around a tree just before Halaku Khan sacked the city

I am responsible as well for insisting that its a concern (and a very bad situation due to lack of air domination) that a gunship has to sacrifice it's anti armour payload for A2A missiles ( assuming Pak army aviation/ airforce has gunships capable of firing them) when PAF should be providing the air domination

but granted that war is a fluid concept and military is known to be anally obsessed about contingency planning so different military platforms have secondary weapons to address such situations. my objection was with the wording in the original immortal statement which is deemed to be infallible by its creator who suggested that these gunships will be fighting each other instead of taking out their respective ground targets.


cheaper and well tested option below, scored 2 kills in Kargil war.

it is assuming that Pakistani cobras have built in avionics and hard points capable of accommodating these A2A missiles. even if they do then PAF might like to keep them for their own jets who are deployed for the primary purpose of air defense.

PAF can provide few as they have other similar missiles options available, they dont have to provide latest version in their inventory.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

PAF can provide few as they have other similar missiles options available, they dont have to provide latest version in their inventory.

babu I pray to god you are correct but sadly its not true,
F-16s wont take any thing other than American missiles
and I am not aware if American missiles can be integrated into JF-17s.
other options( Chinese clones) dont integrate with F-16s and sacrificing F-16 missiles is borderline lunacy because you are willing to downgrade the F-16 potency on a presumed assumption that our cobras might be able to fire them if opportunities present themselves. Mastan's scenario looks very promising (gunships being able to ambush jets) but there are two issues here, limited number of missiles (for PAF weapon pool) and lack of clarity about our cobra's ability to fire them