New AH-1Zs are going to be stationed in Multan, Army tender notice reveals

[YeBeWarned]

well you need to answer this question, whether 36 j11 are better at surviving 260 su 30s+ sam network or 150 jf-17 with smart weapons(4 tones each)

if you think 36 j11(~3-4 billion dollars) are better than 150 jf-17s than i wont disagree with you

yes it would make the force more one dimensional but what the sweden figured out was that denying army air superiority is much easier with 100s of indigenuos fighters than buying few expensive external fighters that will be lost very quickly in war

I'd say both , 36 J-16 and 150 JF 17 , along with 75+ F-16's , 50 / 50 F-7PG and Miraga IV Rose .. along with Net centric , and AWAC's is a force to be reckon with .

 

[ziaulislam]

I'd say both , 36 J-16 and 150 JF 17 , along with 75+ F-16's , 50 / 50 F-7PG and Miraga IV Rose .. along with Net centric , and AWAC's is a force to be reckon with .

well than come out and pay..countries like us are bangaldesh and look at their airforce
i would want 500 j11, but do i have the money
remember india is 10X size of our econmy

in 1980s it was only 4-5X our economy, our per capital was larger than theirs, our exports were just half of their size, they were going o IMF and we are at verge of exporting electricity and we had free usa money yet we couldnt match them, how do you expect that now..we vote for PMLN, PPPP and MQM and expect wonders...buying 36 j11 is equal to IMF bail out..you do realize that? wait june, inshallah once PML N wins with clear majority, you would see another bail out

 

[YeBeWarned]

well than come out and pay..countries like us are bangaldesh and look at their airforce
i would want 500 j11, but do i have the money
remember india is 10X size of our econmy

in 1980s it was only 4-5X our economy, our per capital was larger than theirs, our exports were just half of their size, they were going o IMF and we are at verge of exporting electricity and we had free usa money yet we couldnt match them, how do you expect that now..we vote for PMLN, PPPP and MQM and expect wonders...buying 36 j11 is equal to IMF bail out..you do realize that? wait june, inshallah once PML N wins with clear majority, you would see another bail out

First lets keep Politics out of it ..
buying 36 J-16 or Su-35's wont be a issue if PAF decides to , what i learn from Seniors comments that PAF is focused on JF production specially on block 3, and after that the funds will be moved to Project Azm ,Right now PAF is not stressed as they know the capability of their enemy and if we are not the Aggressor we can defend our air space from what we have. the Game really change when Rafale come to region ,and that is when i believe PAF will be forced to buy a 4.5 Gen Fighter off the shelf .

 

[ziaulislam]

PS:
remember even first thunders were on loan !!
we didnt had enough money in 2010 to keep the thunder line running

First lets keep Politics out of it ..
buying 36 J-16 or Su-35's wont be a issue if PAF decides to , what i learn from Seniors comments that PAF is focused on JF production specially on block 3, and after that the funds will be moved to Project Azm ,Right now PAF is not stressed as they know the capability of their enemy and if we are not the Aggressor we can defend our air space from what we have. the Game really change when Rafale come to region ,and that is when i believe PAF will be forced to buy a 4.5 Gen Fighter off the shelf .

so you say 4 billion dollars i snot an issue for PAF..lol
are you ready to enlgiht us what PAF budget is?

so what my point was..you need to choose between thunders and J11
fifth gen is long term perspective..its atleast 15 years away

 

[YeBeWarned]

PS:
remember even first thunders were on loan !!
we didnt had enough money in 2010 to keep the thunder line running


so you say 4 billion dollars i snot an issue for PAF..lol
are you ready to enlgiht us what PAF budget is?

so what my point was..you need to choose between thunders and J11
fifth gen is long term perspective..its atleast 15 years away

when there is a will , there is a way .. Navy got the smallest budget, but manage to buy 6+2 Submarines with around 4-5Billion $ , 1 Type 54A Frigate , 2 Damen OPV's , 5 Sea kings , 4x Patrol Ships , 2 Swift Ship Corvette ..

 

[ziaulislam]

when there is a will , there is a way .. Navy got the smallest budget, but manage to buy 6+2 Submarines with around 4-5Billion $ , 1 Type 54A Frigate , 2 Damen OPV's , 5 Sea kings , 4x Patrol Ships , 2 Swift Ship Corvette ..

wrong, "where there is money there is way to buy"

pakistan navy is has 4 frigates vs 40 plus indian vessels, they needed a couple of frigates to maintain size of 8 and submarines much much more than j11....

and yes all the procurement you mentioned above is less than 3 billion dollars, swift are supposed to be from FMF, which i doubt are coming now, patrol vessels, old refurbished sea king and damen opv all combined dont cost more than 300 milllion dollars

tomorrow are you going to quote pak army rifles and tank programs now?


Pakistan has the worst infant mortality rate in the world, reveals UNICEF report
https://tribune.com.pk/story/163944...t-countries-still-face-alarming-risks-unicef/

 

[ZedZeeshan]

well than come out and pay..countries like us are bangaldesh and look at their airforce
i would want 500 j11, but do i have the money
remember india is 10X size of our econmy

in 1980s it was only 4-5X our economy, our per capital was larger than theirs, our exports were just half of their size, they were going o IMF and we are at verge of exporting electricity and we had free usa money yet we couldnt match them, how do you expect that now..we vote for PMLN, PPPP and MQM and expect wonders...buying 36 j11 is equal to IMF bail out..you do realize that? wait june, inshallah once PML N wins with clear majority, you would see another bail out

Bail out on what terms and conditions..?? maybe by mortgaging more national assets like motorway, airport, governor house etc..! I dont know why i smell a patwari..??

 

[ziaulislam]

Bail out on what terms and conditions..?? maybe by mortgaging more national assets like motorway, airport, governor house etc..! I dont know why i smell a patwari..??

another IMF program..simply maintaining three months imports foreign reserves looks very difficult
the same way PMLN went for it in 2013..but hey i guess potwaris have short memory

 

[Irfan Baloch]

A future conflict there will see the Cobras pitted against the Apaches for the first time and everyone around the world would be watching to see which of these two US helos come on top

they are gunship helicopters against ground target
their role is anti armor not against each other.
please think before posting.

 

[GriffinsRule]

they are gunship helicopters against ground target
their role is anti armor not against each other.
please think before posting.

Please take your own advice before dispensing it out to others.

Just because that is their primary role does not mean they can not and would not engage low flying airborne targets like other helicopters, especially given that both the chain gun, Hellfire missiles, and AAM (stingers/sidewinders) carried by Cobras can be used to engage such targets.

What you are saying is akin to saying, tanks are only going to target other tanks ... while it is common knowledge that they can engage helicopters as well. Not only that, I even gave an example from an actual war (Iran-Iraq) where both helicopters were used to good effect in shooting each other down.

 

[MastanKhan]

Please take your own advice before dispensing it out to others.

Just because that is their primary role does not mean they can not and would not engage low flying airborne targets like other helicopters, especially given that both the chain gun, Hellfire missiles, and AAM (stingers/sidewinders) carried by Cobras can be used to engage such targets.

What you are saying is akin to saying, tanks are only going to target other tanks ... while it is common knowledge that they can engage helicopters as well. Not only that, I even gave an example from an actual war (Iran-Iraq) where both helicopters were used to good effect in shooting each other down.

Hi,

Pakistani choppers do not have the air to air combat capability---( correct me someone ).

 

[TOPGUN]

Hi,

Pakistani choppers do not have the air to air combat capability---( correct me someone ).

Unless that capability is taken out by the US , the birds otherwise have the capability to carry sidewinders !!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Pakistani choppers do not have the air to air combat capability---( correct me someone ).

young blood has the tendency to second guess you and then fires away the verdict in the same breath.
gunships in the world do have options for A2A missiles but thats not their primary role and it means less load for their primary role. Euro-copter was criticized for that being too versatile at the expense of its primary role and additional/ expensive avionics weight and cost to enable that additional ability.

 

[Maarkhoor]

young blood has the tendency to second guess you and then fires away the verdict in the same breath.
gunships in the world do have options for A2A missiles but thats not their primary role and it means less load for their primary role. Euro-copter was criticized for that being too versatile at the expense of its primary role and additional/ expensive avionics weight and cost to enable that additional ability.

Armament

• Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.787 in) M197 3-barreled Gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)
• Hardpoints: Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
• Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II[49] rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers (up to 76 unguided or 28 guided rockets total)[50]
• Missiles:
  • AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
  • AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What you are saying is akin to saying, tanks are only going to target other tanks ... while it is common knowledge that they can engage helicopters as well. Not only that, I even gave an example from an actual war (Iran-Iraq) where both helicopters were used to good effect in shooting each other down.

ignoring the rants. lets clarify something because there is confusion of apple and oranges.

tank's primary role is antitank and fire support for infantry so its not a deviation. what you are pointing at is called targets of opportunity which are not the primary mission of that machine.A-10 warthog also carries sidewinders but its Close air support plane brimming with anti armor arsenal. every anti air weapon on it will mean one less opportunity against its primary objective. yes a lucky blow from a tank can take out a gunship but that doesn't mean that tanks start qualifying themselves as gunship killers. your gunship is terrain hugging popping in and out of mountains and tree tops destroying enemy ground targets and returning to base, any areal threat to ground friendly forces and itself has to be mitigated by dedicated air defense units both air and ground based.