Never ask me about peace again

[Falcon29]

@Hazzy997

I was looking at a list of the fallen martyrs on an Arabic forum and then spotted the name "AL-GHOUL". Those must be her relatives that she talks about in this article.

Israel, as I have always said, is doing nothing more than creating a new generation of Palestinians (Gazans more precisely) that will be even more hostile to them and all this is harmful for Israel itself if they really want a two state solution which very few people believe now.
War is always a tragedy and especially when innocent civilians and CHILDREN are targeted. May they rest in peace.

Also, excuse my language, but screw every individual that backs Israel knowing fully well that 80% of the casualties are civilians. Especially some of the Indian and "Western" cheerleaders on PDF.

ASMAA AL-GHOUL
COLUMNIST

Beautiful Arab lady, btw and judging from the look alone she seems like a very warm person. Yes, you can easily detect such things quite often when looking at people alone.

P.S:

I have been reading some of her articles for a long time now (those in Arabic especially - not only on Al-Monitor) and she is a very talented writer. She lives in Gaza. Check her Facebook out. I really feel like contacting her but it feels wrong in this period of time.

I contacted her on her personal facebook account. I will express condolences at the right time.

24 day old baby, good going man, I am sure he would have made a terrible and terrifying terrorist when he grew up.

Here's what I don't get, does Hamas practice magic? How many missiles/fighters/munitions could it store in that single story dilapidated structure? And what enchantments did they use so that the IDF had to bring in the Vipers to wipe it out? AND no warning issued this time, must have been some real bad a$$es holed up in that "building".

Well said, most people won't understand that you're being sarcastic here.

 

[VCheng]

My father’s brother, Ismail al-Ghoul, 60, was not a member of Hamas. His wife, Khadra, 62, was not a militant of Hamas. Their sons, Wael, 35, and Mohammed, 32, were not combatants for Hamas. Their daughters, Hanadi, 28, and Asmaa, 22, were not operatives for Hamas, nor were my cousin Wael’s children, Ismail, 11, Malak, 5, and baby Mustafa, only 24 days old, members of Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine or Fatah. Yet, they all died in the Israeli shelling that targeted their home at 6:20 a.m. on Sunday morning.

So who are the people who elected Hamas and gave it the authority to launch rockets at Israel? After all, they have some responsibility for the present crisis too.

 

[500]

When the assault started, I was sympathetic to Israel, because no country should face rocket attacks from groups like Hamas. But as it has dragged on and on, and civilian casualties keep mounting, I feel forced to question Israel's behavior as well as intentions. Initially I was under the impression that the air strikes were only at Hamas targets and rocket launch pads, and that civilian casualties happened only because of Gaza being such a crowded place, and Hamas firing from civilian places and storing weapons in schools and mosques. However, I only excused Israel's air campaign because I thought that it would be quick, intended to force Hamas to come to the negotiating table, or followed by ground forces moving in to capture Hamas leaders and rocket launchers.

But as it turns out, Israel is going on doing air strikes which have already killed a 1000+ civilians who had nothing to do with Hamas, and yet Israel remains unapologetic. I cannot understand what they are trying to accomplish by this aerial campaign, unless they simultaneously sent in ground forces. All they are doing is creating thousands of sworn enemies - everybody who lost a child, every child who lost their parent, will hate Israel to the core, and quite possibly join anti Israel forces in future. And they would be morally fully justified in doing so.

I have to say at this point, that Israel is behaving stupidly as well as criminally. Their initial statement of intentions simply do not match with what their F-16s are doing. Preventing rocket attacks? Destroying tunnel networks? How is any of that achieved by repeatedly pounding homes and universities?

Hamas, all said and done, is a very lightly armed force of foot soldiers, with no armour or artillery or heavy weaponry. They would be no match for the IDF if they faught face to face. If Israel's intention really was self defence, then they should hae sent in their ground forces, killed or captured combatants, destroyed the tunnels and rockets on the ground, and used airpower only for close air support of their ground troops. Instead, they are pretending to achieve those objectives from the air alone.

What exactly is Israel's objective as of now? What are they trying to do? Do they even have a clearly defined objective anymore? @500 @Archdemon @Adir-mz

First of all u should take Palestinian numbers with huge grain of salt. They dont worth much. When Israel stormed Jenin in 2002 they also claimed a massacre of 600 people and later it was found that 52 total killed.

For example in midst of Cast Lead operation in 2009 Hamas claimed they lost only 10 fighters out of 509 total killed (yes I am not kidding):

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli forces split Gaza in two

Later they admitted they lost 600-700 of their men:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead Israel News | Haaretz

You ask what Israel tried to achieve by bombing houses. Ask urself where Hamas holds ten thousands of rockets, thousands of launchers, hundreds of tunnels? They all are civilian houses. Just imagine that: ~10,000 rockets in civilian houses.

They stored rockets in schools, they fired rockets from hispitals.

They cry about massacre in Sajaiya, although Israel warned 5 days before its going to attack there and called civilians to evacuate. But Hamas urged them to stay. This Israeli warning allowed Hamas to prepare and cost us many lives.

And dont believe those who say that they had nowhere to evacuate. Center of Gaza had very little damage:

This live cam screenshot from 2nd aug:

No, its not Dresden 1945 and its not Grozny 1995:

 

[MilSpec]

That's always Israel's tactic. When it becomes desperate in a war, it starts deliberately targeting civilians, just like 2006, 2008 and 2012 and thanks to its hypocrite powers in the west, Israel's crimes are labeled as 'self defense'. The world is being run by rules of jungle.

The incident was tragic, all civilian deaths are, but to your post I would like to ask whom does Hamas targets?

 

[Falcon29]

I think it's just plain random targeting............. just shoot at anything that moves............ after watching all this, I have come to a conclusion.......... Israeli's have become their own worst nightmare.............. they should definitely stop with Anti-Semitism and Auschwitz punchlines........... it's Gaza Concentration Camp from today...............

In my books, from now onwards, they are just plain pussies............ imagine, not even one boot on the ground in Gaza and all this random targeting............ how low can a nation sink............ I know............ as low as Israel!

They did send ground forces on eastern portions of Gaza Strip. One main one being east of Gaza city. 60% of the homes were destroyed in that district when Israel attempted the ground invasion.

They have withdrawn some of them, but kept forces in southern Gaza. They are saying this isn't over and that more 'operations' are to come.

 

[Dillinger]

I contacted her on her personal facebook account. I will express condolences at the right time.


Well said, most people won't understand that you're being sarcastic here.

I hear that IDF is pulling soldiers out from the ground ops?

 

[Falcon29]

First of all u should take Palestinian numbers with huge grain of salt. They dont worth much. When Israel stormed Jenin in 2002 they also claimed a massacre of 600 people and later it was found that 52 total killed.

For example in midst of Cast Lead operation in 2009 Hamas claimed they lost only 10 fighters out of 509 total killed:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli forces split Gaza in two

Later they admitted they lost 600-700 of their men:

Hamas admits 600-700 of its men were killed in Cast Lead Israel News | Haaretz

You ask what Israel tried to achieve by bombing houses. Ask urself where Hamas holds ten thousands of rockets, thousands of launchers, hundreds of tunnels? They all are civilian houses. Just imagine that: ~10,000 rockets in civilian houses.

They stored rockets in schools, they fired rockets from hispitals.

They cry about massacre in Sajaiya, although Israel warned 5 days before its going to attack there and called civilians to evacuate. But Hamas urged them to stay. This Israeli warning allowed Hamas to prepare and cost us many lives.

And dont believe those who say that they had nowhere to evacuate. Center of Gaza had very little damage:

This live cam screenshot from 2nd aug:

500, people here are well aware with your arguments which are just copied on from IDF statements. It seems like you haven't been following media. Everyone has refuted IDF attempted justifications for their actions.

In 2009, half of those killed belonging to Hamas were part of the police ministry. Hamas had lost around 300 or less military members. That still left more than 1,000 civilians killed.

You're showing an old screen shot of western portion of Gaza city. The eastern portion is largely destroyed. Don't you know people can read UN reports and find images online??

The statistics are coming from the UN.

Why are you even showing WW2 images when there weren't advanced weapons nor international laws of war?? Are you really that foolish?

I hear that IDF is pulling soldiers out from the ground ops?

No they aren't. They are still around border areas and are still in Rafah. That's why Israel deceived the world about the soldier capture in southern Gaza. They had no forces in Rafah prior to it. During the cease fire they took advantage of it to occupy Rafah under the disguise of a 'search'. You saw yourself they admitted he was killed in battle. So Israel broke the cease fire in a grave manner and on top of that destroyed much of the city and killed 170 Palestinians there.

Now they are still there. Which is why Hamas was saying they had invaded.

Also yesterday, they tried sending commando units from the sea but were caught again. Along northern Gaza/Gaza city's coast.

They are saying some ground operations may still continue.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Hazzy997

I must say that I am impressed about how calm-headed that you have become in such a difficult time when facing paid Hasbara trolls such as @500 and their nonsense.

Not sure if I would be able to remain this calm.

Why is his nonsense being tolerated here and who made him a "PDF Think Thank Analyst"?

Surely it can't be because of his engagement in Palestine-Israeli debates!

How anyone can defend what the apartheid state is doing right now in Gaza is unbelievable.

 

[500]

You're showing an old screen shot of western portion of Gaza city.

Its not old its 3 days ago, when campaign ended.

The eastern portion is largely destroyed. Don't you know people can read UN reports and find images online??

Destruction is only at edges.

In 2009, half of those killed belonging to Hamas were part of the police ministry. Hamas had lost around 300 or less military members. That still left more than 1,000 civilians killed.

Hamas "policemen" are dudes in camo and AK-47. Some 250 of them were killed. That means Hamas military force lost 350-450. But they claimed some funny numbers (first 10 later 49 or something like that).

The statistics are coming from the UN.

UN never made any investigation, they are just taking Hamas health ministry numbers.

Why are you even showing WW2 images when there weren't advanced weapons nor international laws of war?? Are you really that foolish?

No sweety, thats Grozny 1995.

 

[Falcon29]

@Hazzy997

I must say that I am impressed about how calm-headed that you have become in such a difficult time when facing paid Hasbara trolls such as @500 and their nonsense.

Not sure if I would be able to remain this calm.

Why are his nonsense being tolerated here and who made him a "PDF Think Thank Analyst"?

Surely it can't be because of his engagement in Palestine-Israeli debates!

How anyone can defend what the apartheid state is doing right now in Gaza is unbelievable.

Yeah I know, I already got used to it. His arguments are embarrassing so I don't feel much pressure.

I want to understand how in his right mind he isn't trying to tone down his foolish arguments. On every other forum he wouldn't get away with arguments because all members would debunk him and find Israeli's to be more extreme than they thought. He actually has more freedom on PDF to do so.

Besides one or two right wing sites.

 

[invinciblesgunner]

Shame so many had to die before people would start changing their mind about Israel the terrorist state

 

[janon]

First of all u should take Palestinian numbers with huge grain of salt. They dont worth much. When Israel stormed Jenin in 2002 they also claimed a massacre of 600 people and later it was found that 52 total killed.

I am going by neutral sources only. In fact it seems that I underestimated the number of deaths in Gaza. The BBC reports this, with their sources being OCHA (UN), Gaza's health ministry, and the IDF - over 1800 Gazans have died so far:

Maybe this will turn out to be an exaggeration, and fewer people may have died. But the larger point is what exactly Israel hopes to achieve. What will "victory" look like to you? When will you conclude that victory has been achieved? When every rocket stored in every building is destroyed? When certain people have been killed? If so, which people? What exactly is your objective?

If it is true that they have stored weaons in schools and homes, what is the point in destroying the said schools and homes? Isn't that akin to burning a house to kill a rat? Why not go into Gaza with boots on the ground, and capture and kill every hamas combatant? Your forces are so much superior to theirs, and have plenty of IFVs and tanks and helicopter gunships and air support to help you. Why not destroy the tunnels from the ground? What is this sustained air campaign going to achieve, other than thousands dead, and millions hating you?

Anyway, answer just this question, which I posed earlier - when will you call it a day, when what has been achieved?

 

[Falcon29]

Its not old its 3 days ago, when campaign ended.

And in the far western portion of Gaza city.

Destruction is only at edges.

Which is a lot of destruction. As explained here:

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Israel's offensive on Gaza has caused over $5 billion of damage to homes and infrastructure in the Strip, the Minister of Public Works said Monday.

Minister Mufeed al-Hasayneh, a resident of Gaza, told Ma'an that the amount of money is likely to increase as the assault continues.

Some 10,000 homes have been completely destroyed, and 30,000 homes partially destroyed, al-Hasayneh said.

"The three areas that have undergone the most intense destruction are Shujaiyya, Beit Hanoun, and Abasan," the minister said.

"Ministry crews were astonished when they arrived to Shujaiyya, where some 110,000 people live. Sixty percent of the homes were completely destroyed, especially those in the eastern part of the neighborhood."

The minister said it would take $5 billion to rebuild structures alone, "not including possessions, like furniture and cars."

"The offensive destroyed buildings belonging to Gaza governorates, in addition to police stations and national security buildings," al-Hasayneh said.

The diesel containers belonging to Gaza's power plant have been destroyed as well, he said.

Al-Hasayneh says the "containers will cost $25 million, and there are ten power lines that supply Gaza with power and have been cut off" as well.

He added that 70 percent water wells had been completely destroyed, "in addition to waste water lines."

Hamas "policemen" are dudes in camo and AK-47. Some 250 of them were killed. That means Hamas military force lost 350-450. But they claimed some funny numbers (first 10 later 49 or something like that).

Policemen are civilians and over 300 were killed. Hamas lost less than 300 during Israeli assault in 2009. Civilians were between 900-1,000 killed. Having a camo and rifle doesn't make you a combatant. Many policemen, especially in the Middle East carry rifles.

More of your absurd justifications. They are civilians according to international law and were targeted during their graduation ceremony.

UN never made any investigation, they are just taking Hamas health ministry numbers.

You keep attaching 'Hamas' to everything. As your way to make it sound less credible. The Gaza Ministry of Health is headed by Palestinians. And is very reliable.

The UN is reliable as well and has investigated.

UN: 80 per cent of Palestinians killed in Israeli offensive are civilians - Telegraph

OCHA said its statistics had been checked and verified through a variety of sources.

 

[500]

I am going by neutral sources only. In fact it seems that I underestimated the number of deaths in Gaza. The BBC reports this, with their sources being OCHA (UN), Gaza's health ministry, and the IDF - over 1800 Gazans have died so far:

Russia killed over 100,000 in Chechnya and now Chechens are kissing Russia buts.

Maybe this will turn out to be an exaggeration, and fewer people may have died. But the larger point is what exactly Israel hopes to achieve. What will "victory" look like to you? When will you conclude that victory has been achieved? When every rocket stored in every building is destroyed? When certain people have been killed? If so, which people? What exactly is your objective?

Our objective is very very very simple: stop rockets and bring security to our civilians. We dont want our civilians terrorized on daily basis. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Falcon29]

I am going by neutral sources only. In fact it seems that I underestimated the number of deaths in Gaza. The BBC reports this, with their sources being OCHA (UN), Gaza's health ministry, and the IDF - over 1800 Gazans have died so far:

Keep in mind, he isn't arguing about the death toll but rather against civilian ratio statistics presented by OCHA. The current confirmed toll:
2 Palestinian children killed in airstrike on Rafah home | Maan News Agency

With UN figures indicating most of the 1,865 people killed in Gaza so far were civilians, the world has stepped up its demands for an end to the bloodshed.

............

The death toll is near 2,000 or more actually. But, they can't reach some areas where many were killed due to persistent attacks. The 72 hour new cease fire to take place tonight. If Israel doesn't break it, the Palestinian medic teams will look for more bodies and it will likely exceed 2,000 killed. Israel fears the idea of that and doesn't want it to reach mainstream media until after a truce.

............

If you have questions on what is being targeted, or the military structure/organization of military factions in Gaza, ask me. If you're willing to listen to me I can inform you. I am from Gaza, used to live there and always visit there. I am familiar with the military structure.

Our objective is very very very simple: stop rockets and bring security to our civilians. We dont want our civilians terrorized on daily basis. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bring security to your civilians by occupying the Palestinians for decades ... hmmm.. I wonder how that works...

The truth is the current conflict has little if anything to do with Hamas or its rockets. It does however have everything to do with the state of Israel’s decades-long policy of occupation, embargo, siege, collective punishment, expropriation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Israel’s war is not with Hamas but with the Palestinian people in their entirety, both the 1.5 million in Gaza and the 3 million in the West Bank. It is a war waged every hour of every day there is occupation, checkpoints, and settlements. It is a war waged every hour of every day there is an economic embargo, siege, and collective punishment. It is a war being waged every second of the indignity and humiliation suffered by its victims.

............

Many disagree with your statement:

Brzezinski: Netanyahu 'making a very serious mistake'
Watch"Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET on CNN

Fareed speaks with former U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski about Israel's military operation in Gaza.

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on CNN told Wolf Blitzer that the invasion of Gaza was a strategy to demilitarize Gaza, explaining the use of force. But it has been quite a robust use of force…Do you think that it is going to succeed, the Israeli strategy?

No, I think he is making a very serious mistake. When Hamas in effect accepted the notion of participation in the Palestinian leadership, it in effect acknowledged the determination of that leadership to seek a peaceful solution with Israel. That was a real option. They should have persisted in that.

Instead Netanyahu launched the campaign of defamation against Hamas, seized on the killing of three innocent Israeli kids to immediately charge Hamas with having done it without any evidence, and has used that to stir up public opinion in Israel in order to justify this attack on Gaza, which is so lethal.

I think he is isolating Israel. He's endangering its longer-range future. And I think we ought to make it very clear that this is a course of action which we thoroughly disapprove and which we do not support and which may compel us and the rest of the international community to take some steps of legitimizing Palestinian aspirations perhaps in the U.N.


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