NATO meets tomorrow in response to Poland's request to invoke the Article 4

[ChineseTiger1986]

if europe really decides sanctions that will cripple world economy because russia can block all recourse exports to the west
Countries - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Russia and Kazakhstan together are equally to saudi arabia in oil exports

Europe should not fall into this divide and conquer tactic set by the US.

And when they will ever realize that Russia is a more reliable partner for them?

Just because the US also descended from the Western Europeans, but it doesn't mean that they are more trustworthy than Russia. And how many times that the Western Europe has been backstabbed by their US 'brother' in the past?

 

[Star Wars]

Self sufficient was the SU because it was not intertwined with western economies.The only reasons why some europeans countries are in doubt to use sanctions is because they will loose money but it will cost Russia even more.A look at wikipedia to see Russia's imports will quickly tell you how self sufficient they are.I am no expert but with this debacle i read on the situation,you should do the same and pass over the russian chest thumping.

Russia imports stuff from Europe which can be easily replaced by other countries , i can bet not many will oblige to the sanctions .. Countries in south east Asia , China and India will be more than happy to replace Europe for the imports. It is Impossible to Isolate a country like Russia ... The only thing this will lead to is European economy paying a heavy prize int terms of lost exports. Any sanctions will effect Europe far worse than it will effect Russia ...

Besides this talk is irrelevant as many European countries are clearly not going to take part in the sanctions

 

[Hakan]

Yeap, here's the official press release from NATO (NATO - Homepage

If it's gonna invoked, it'd be the fourth time that NATO invokes the 4th Chapter which may allow NATO states to deploy forces in Polands borders. (Note: PAC-3 Patriot deployment in Turkey was also in response for the invoked article 4)

NATO - News: Secretary General announces North Atlantic Council to meet following Poland's request for Article 4 consultations, 03-Mar.-2014

ARTICLE 4 Of Washington Treaty



The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro- Atlantic area.

Poland is the country that wanted Ukraine in the E.U that is why Poland started the European Unions Eastern Partnership. Poland wants to use Ukraine as a buffer against Russia and now it looks like that plan has failed so they are calling in NATO. There is a reason why back in November NATO held the stead fast jazz exercise in Poland.
NATO military exercise in Poland fuels suspicions in Russia | euronews, world news

 

[flamer84]

Russia imports stuff from Europe which can be easily replaced by other countries , i can bet not many will oblige to the sanctions .. Countries in south east Asia , China and India will be more than happy to replace Europe for the imports. It is Impossible to Isolate a country like Russia ... The only thing this will lead to is European economy paying a heavy prize int terms of lost exports. Any sanctions will effect Europe far worse than it will effect Russia ...

Besides this talk is irrelevant as many European countries are clearly not going to take part in the sanctions

It can not import high tech parts,machines,technology from other places.You're not really up for a serious discussion and i'm not in the mood to spoon feed you or run around in circles so believe what you want,i'll just laugh in the corner at it.Have fun.

 

[Star Wars]

It can not import high tech parts,machines,technology from other places.You're not really up for a serious discussion and i'm not in the mood to spoon feed you or run around in circles so believe what you want,i'll just laugh in the corner at it.Have fun.

You cant isolate an Oil , GAS and resource exporting nation .. Europe uses Russian resources to build those machine tools and tech parts . Its ...not...possible.. Not going to happen.. UK , France and Turkey has made that quiet clear...

IN fact Europe is hand in gloves with bypassing US dollar to trade in local currencies with BRIC nations... what makes you think they will listen to U.S on sanctions ?

 

[UKBengali]

It can not import high tech parts,machines,technology from other places.You're not really up for a serious discussion and i'm not in the mood to spoon feed you or run around in circles so believe what you want,i'll just laugh in the corner at it.Have fun.

Dude you are not thinking this through properly.

China can provide nearly everything that EU can provide, but not at the same quality just yet.

Only area where EU has a massive advantage is in passenger plane technology but the Russians already have their own industry.

 

[flamer84]

Dude you are not thinking this through properly.

China can provide nearly everything that EU can provide, but not at the same quality just yet.

Only area where EU has a massive advantage is in passenger plane technology but the Russians already have their own industry.

Not really,some of that stuff is imported by China to.True story.

 

[UKBengali]

Not really,some of that stuff is imported by China to.True story.

OK - please provide an example of a critical technology that Russia or China cannot produce.

 

[flamer84]

You cant isolate an Oil , GAS and resource exporting nation .. Europe uses Russian resources to build those machine tools and tech parts . Its ...not...possible.. Not going to happen.. UK , France and Turkey has made that quiet clear...

IN fact Europe is hand in gloves with bypassing US dollar to trade in local currencies with BRIC nations... what makes you think they will listen to Russia ?

It doesn't have to be total isolation but surgical strikes.Bleed them on the corners,especially now when the russian economy has a hard time growing-only 1.2 % growth in 2013 even without all this ruckus.

 

[Star Wars]

It doesn't have to be total isolation but surgical strikes.Bleed them on the corners,especially now when the russian economy has a hard time growing-only 1.2 % growth in 2013 even without all this ruckus.

European economy is in no shape to afford it ... this may even damage US economy more as any sanctions will force countries to trade with Russia by completely bypassing the Dollar .. Russian economy will suffer but Europe cannot handle the consequences..
UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London | World news | theguardian.com

 

[UKBengali]

Let us look at Russia's imports for 2013:

Countries: China 15.5%, Germany 9.5%, Ukraine 5.5% (2012)

Product Types: Machinery, vehicles, pharmaceutical products, plastic, semi-finished metal products, meat, fruits and nuts, optical and medical instruments, iron, steel

Russia imported 340 billion dollars last year and so Germany alone will lose over 30 billion dollars.

 

[flamer84]

OK - please provide an example of a critical technology that Russia or China cannot produce.

Are you serious ? Loot at it yourself and wonder if they had the China option which would obviously be waaaaaaaaaaaayyy cheaper,why didn't they took it by now.Russia exports resources and imports finished goods from pharmaceutical to technological ones.

Let us look at Russia's imports for 2013:

Countries: China 15.5%, Germany 9.5%, Ukraine 5.5% (2012)

Product Types: Machinery, vehicles, pharmaceutical products, plastic, semi-finished metal products, meat, fruits and nuts, optical and medical instruments, iron, steel

Russia imported 340 billion dollars last year and so Germany alone will lose over 30 billion dollars.

Yes it will loose but compared to letting them run amock,invading at will i think that somehow things balance out.

Poland exported some 6.5 billion $ worth of goods to Russia and you don't see them complaining.

 

[UKBengali]

Are you serious ? Loot at it yourself and wonder if they had the China option which would obviously be waaaaaaaaaaaayyy cheaper,why didn't they took it by now.Russia exports resources and imports finished goods from pharmaceutical to technological ones.

Few factors:

1. Russia did not want to become too dependent on China but EU sanctions will drive it that way.

2. EU spends money buying Russia oil and gas, then Russia felt obliged to at least buy some EU products in return.

3. EU technology in general is still better than what China provides, but in the majority of cases China can act as a "good-enough" substitute to the EU. Since better technology is key areas is readily available then why not buy when you have the money?

 

[flamer84]

European economy is in no shape to afford it ... this may even damage US economy more as any sanctions will force countries to trade with Russia by completely bypassing the Dollar .. Russian economy will suffer but Europe cannot handle the consequences..
UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London | World news | theguardian.com

No,is the other away around.You just have to quit fanboyism and be rational.

Few factors:

1. Russia did not want to become too dependent on China but EU sanctions will drive it that way.

2. EU spends money buying Russia oil and gas, then Russia felt obliged to at least buy some EU products in return.

3. EU technology in general is still better than what China provides, but in the majority of cases China can act as a "good-enough" substitute to the EU. Since better technology is key areas is readily available then why not buy when you have the money?

Because China doesn't have that technology from industrial machines to IT.Even firms as Lenovo still use critical parts from the West.

 

[senheiser]

Europe should not fall into this divide and conquer tactic set by the US.

And when they will ever realize that Russia is a more reliable partner for them?

Just because the US also descended from the Western Europeans, but it doesn't mean that they are more trustworthy than Russia. And how many times that the Western Europe has been backstabbed by their US 'brother' in the past?

in few generations america will be like mexico full of latinos and balcks and few white people left, europe will still be dominant european with significant number of muslims which america forces us to fight against them in their wicked wars in the middle east.

Its just a matter of time until they culturally split.