Nation’s honor not to be traded for prosperity: Kayani

[Bratva]

Dude, In Pakistan, nothing is possible/Done without army's approval..

Like What?, Prime Minister of Pakistan is on record and said In national assembly. ISI is under control of government and what ever ISI does, it is the government of Pakistan that tells them to do. Same goes for Army.

 

[KS]

I think you need to stop being so headstrong and look at the situation realistically. It is not in Pakistan's interests to go on a full scale war with the US, not because it can't do so, it most certainly can. However, Pakistan would lose the support of the international world if it openly engages in a war with the US. Losing credibility & ties with the rest of the world could be detrimental to Pakistan's future.

Ontopic : Kayani is becoming a good 'politician' nowadays.

 

[Bratva]

So, lets connect the dots in this circular argument here: Nations honor cannot be traded for prosperity. OK....and because we choose to prefer our honor over prosperity, we are not yet prosperous. However, because a prosperous pakistan is in the interest of all (and, not the other way around), you all (read: the rest of the world) must do everything to make us prosperous for your own good. If for your own good (read: security, safety, stability in the region) you need to trample on our sovereignity and honor, we will over charge you for it. This will bring in prosperity. However, nation's honor cannot be traded.... You get the gist?

Cut the crap short. say it clearly what you want to say. then we will reply clearly too.

 

[desioptimist]

Could it be directed at indo-pak relation? Why everybody thinking from US-pak angle?

 

[ramu]

Some Facts to Clarify?

1. General Kiyani, is answerable to Courts. Did indians know, last year, Supreme court of Pakistan, Summoned ISI in Court to Clarify theri stance on one of Missing person cases?

2. Did Indians know, Raymond Davis matter was settled in courts between the aggrieved party and raymond davis, and there was No General Ashfaq pervaiz Kiyani in Court?

3. Did Indians know any Illegal thing General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kiyani did so under his tenure?

4. Did Ashfaq pervaiz kiyani, Disobeyed President or Prime Minister Of Pakistan?

Bloody chaps, always came here with distorted facts and start makinf fun of every thing, better educate your selfs what General Ashfaq pervaiz Kiyani is and then Came and argue with us,

We Indians know where the case was resolved.

 

[mehru]

Please reply to my post no 55

So, lets connect the dots in this circular argument here: Nations honor cannot be traded for prosperity. OK....and because we choose to prefer our honor over prosperity, we are not yet prosperous. However, because a prosperous pakistan is in the interest of all (and, not the other way around), you all (read: the rest of the world) must do everything to make us prosperous for your own good. If for your own good (read: security, safety, stability in the region) you need to trample on our sovereignity and honor, we will over charge you for it. This will bring in prosperity. However, nation's honor cannot be traded.... You get the gist?

Let me explain you. Pakistan lives in a hostile environment so unfortunately our first priority will always be our security and defence. So defence will always be in our mind along with prosperity. What's wrong in that statement? You guys also spend a lot on defence. Why? Why don't you guys simply divert it all to the welfare of your own people. The same reason is here. Prosperity alone can't ensure country's existence. So yeah defence is our unfortunate need.

Except the bolded part you didn't make any sense. Care to elaborate?

 

[macho ki macho]

Except the bolded part you didn't make any sense. Care to elaborate?

Ok going offtopic, but just to answer your question. Mods sorry in advance.

Thats a satire on your leaders time and again nutty logic and comments of how, A prosperous pakistan is in the best interest of the world and so world must give aid to pakistan and IMF must waive off all previous loans and give new ones. Pakistans prosperity is head ache of donors and not pakistan itself. In that way defence spending on top of economic bankruptsy is justified.

ALso, if world does not give aid, drone technology, f-16s, nuclear deal to pakistan, how it will eventually be taken over by taliban and hence well being of world at large will be at stake. So for their own good world must give aid to pakistan.

ALso, pakistan honour needs to remain uncompromised and the aid and pity dollars must not be seen as a violation of Honour and dignity. Only then we can become prosperous. Its what some people call "Lahori Logic" and current statement is an extension of it

 

[Mujeeb47]

I agree with Gen. Kiyani. As he is a professional general (as whole world knows), it is his duty to safeguard country's interests.

 

[mehru]

Ok going offtopic, but just to answer your question. Mods sorry in advance.

Thats a satire on your leaders time and again nutty logic and comments of how, A prosperous pakistan is in the best interest of the world and so world must give aid to pakistan and IMF must waive off all previous loans and give new ones. Pakistans prosperity is head ache of donors and not pakistan itself. In that way defence spending on top of economic bankruptsy is justified.

ALso, if world does not give aid, drone technology, f-16s, nuclear deal to pakistan, how it will eventually be taken over by taliban and hence well being of world at large will be at stake. So for their own good world must give aid to pakistan.

The only thing that our leaders demanded is trade, not aid. As much as i hate Zardari he even said that. The reason we asked for concessions because of the damages done to the economy by flood, earthquake and the current WOT. Is it wrong to ask for concessions?

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

As for defence, we have two headaches right now. WOT and hostile borders. We can't cut down defence budget however it will not be increased either given the economic conditions.

This is the paranoia of world media. We didn't say that we will be taken over by taliban. The only reason our PA demanded because it is fighting a joint war with NATO and surely our economy can't sustain a long war right now. That's why coalition fund was established. We ask for concession so that we could improve our economy and support this war on our own. Is it wrong to do that?

 

[airuah]

"HONOR" if that was true....then the Pakistan army would/shoul not have joined WOT in the first place...they would not have allowed NATO to bomb insie your territory in the first place......all his words are bull ....he just become a politician....all the Honour was alreay traded for prosperity when the Americans were allowed to bomb inside your territory in return for aid money..."honor already sold for prosperity of Pakistan's army"

 

[foxbat]

Joker, Making wild accusation without any proof? Give me one proof, where General Ashfaq pervaiz kiyani disobeyed a Direct order of President or Prime Minister of Pakistan? Until then, Making statements like this makes you a utter fool

Show me one place where I said he did.. or levied an accusation.. Until you strengthen your grasp on English language, going ballistic without understanding the context or the post makes you look like one.

 

[foxbat]

Like What?, Prime Minister of Pakistan is on record and said In national assembly. ISI is under control of government and what ever ISI does, it is the government of Pakistan that tells them to do. Same goes for Army.

Pakistani President and Prime Ministers are on record for saying a few other things as well that were proven wrong later. Like no involvement of Pakistani army in Kargil. Doesnt make them right.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is a problem with Generals making such speeches & it is this - the general is not answerable to the public at large directly. There are no consequences for him directly by the choice of that decision.

Actually there are 'populist consequences' for the institution of the Army from the content of 'speeches'. In the case of Pakistan especially, the military has a lot of influence because so many Pakistanis support it. 'Unpopular content' in a speech can easily reverse opinion about the military.

Honour or prosperity is a false choice as there is no honour in being poor.

There is no honor in being rich through a career in crime either ...

Nor for that matter any honor in being 'rich' on the basis of handouts from someone and allowing them to walk all over you. Kayani's comments in the correct context are completely appropriate.

In any case, such decisions are best left for people who are going to be held accountable by the masses for both their economic condition & for any "dishonorable" acts.

Kayani has made no 'decisions' on this issue - he has offered an opinion in a speech. If Pakistanis support such a position, Kayani, and the institution he leads, will gain more public support. If the public does not support such a position, support for the military will fall. There is nothing stopping the political leadership from implementing policies that are popular amongst Pakistanis. In fact, if anything, the reason Zardari and the PPP are so unpopular currently is because of a perception that they are not implementing policies that most Pakistanis want to see implemented.

So in terms of 'popular pressure through accountability', the PPP can (or should) see that it is paying a price in losing public support through the policies it is implementing, yet it has done very little to change course. The military appears to be acting more in line with 'accountable to the masses' and at least articulating policies that have public support.

Your political leaders must be held accountable for their decisions but they have to be their own decisions & not ones imposed/articulated by those who do not have to face an election.

The political leadership has made unpopular decision after unpopular decision, and I have yet to see any major policy position (that is unpopular) forced upon the political leadership by the military.

Btw, General Kiyani has been himself instrumental in undermining the Pakistani army/ State by accepting an extension of his tenure.

There is nothing unconstitutional about the extension, and I fail to see how the Army or the State has been undermined.

There is absolutely no logic to that decision.

Yes there is, and it has been discussed in the relevant threads.

 

[Bratva]

Pakistani President and Prime Ministers are on record for saying a few other things as well that were proven wrong later. Like no involvement of Pakistani army in Kargil. Doesnt make them right.

Mr. Wild Weasel, Does Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani was COAS during Kargil?

 

[foxbat]

Actually there are 'populist consequences' for the institution of the Army from the content of 'speeches'. In the case of Pakistan especially, the military has a lot of influence because so many Pakistanis support it. 'Unpopular content' in a speech can easily reverse opinion about the military.

And why would being popular a requirement for an Army General?