Naswarville

[Armstrong]

Apart from Jinnah you folks haven't produced an actual people's leader whatsoever, and Ranjit Singh was a king- got NO respect for monarchs- they didn't build themselves- hell even Stalin is a better pick than any King who EVER ruled.

And you have ? You were too much into the Caste BS before the British came to Civilize you lot & castrate us !

 

[Marshmallow]

Yes, Pakistan does need to get its own house in order first before focusing on anything else. That remains true because we need to solve all sorts of issues ranging from corruption to extremism. The difference between Syria, Iran & Kashmir is that both Syria & Iran are sovereign countries & they can solve their issues on their own. Syria is also part of the Arab world, & Arab countries are offering them their support. Although, helping any country out with humanitarian assistance isn't a problem at all. Syrians & Iranians share religious ties with us, although the Iranians share the Indo-Iranian heritage with us too even though they have their own civilizations & past. Kashmir is our business not just because there are Pakistani Kashmiris, but the region itself is disputed & part of Kashmir is under our control. The Kashmiris themselves share the Indo-Iranian heritage with other ethnic groups of the north western regions of the Sub-Continent.A Kashmiri is far closer to you than a Syrian is if you take other factors apart from religion in to consideration.



Ancestral language? Do you mean Sanskrit & Avestan? Sanskrit belonging to the Indo-Aryans & Avestan belonging to the Iranic people, both of them are sister languages too.

i stress on da view that when u are bein logical and look at any prob neutrally without giving ur sympathies n loyalities wid them on color,family or races base then u dun say we support this cuz we belong to them n are more close to them but we dun support the other one cuz they dun belong to us directly!

this is not humanity! we shud think as human not as pakistani only n only do number kashmiri:p alot of other nationalities also deserve our attention n support!:p

 

[Dillinger]

And you have ? You were too much into the Caste BS before the British came to Civilize you lot & castrate us !

Yes we have been afloat at sea for far too long, we had a leader in Gandhi, a man of some achievements in Nehru..the point is simple- this has not been the land of leaders...but compare your ruling dispensation to ours and then tell me, for all our ills we have kept a much larger nation together without having to go apeshit with crushing ethnic and linguistic identities.

 

[Marshmallow]

Haha! There are Pakistanis belonging to other ethnic groups that don't speak their ethnic languages when they are raised abroad. Do they no longer belong to their ethnicities? :p

then they too r do no like u n @Armstrongrolleyes:

 

[Armstrong]

Yes we have been afloat at sea for far too long, we had a leader in Gandhi, a man of some achievements in Nehru..the point is simple- this has not been the land of leaders...but compare your ruling dispensation to ours and then tell me, for all our ills we have kept a much larger nation together without having to go apeshit with crushing ethnic and linguistic identities.

What crushing linguistic & ethnic identities ?

 

[Ayush]

this debate is not letting me sleep.. :p

 

[Armstrong]

i stress on da view that when u are bein logical and look at any prob neutrally without giving ur sympathies n loyalities wid them on color,family or races base then u dun say we support this cuz we belong to them n are more close to them but we dun support the other one cuz they dun belong to us directly!

this is not humanity! we shud think as human not as pakistani only n only do number kashmiri:p alot of other nationalities also deserve our attention n support!:p

When was the last time they cared about me as a human being ?

 

[Marshmallow]

this debate is not letting me sleep.. :p

me too n i hav to wake up earlyconfused:

but im leavin in mins....

 

[Marshmallow]

When was the last time they cared about me as a human being ?

well thy first have to believe if u are a human or alien haha jk

when was the last time u had situation like syria,iraq,?

 

[Dillinger]

What crushing linguistic & ethnic identities ?

Ahemm..we've been over this before..at the end of the day..you could not promote other linguistic and ethnic practices to the mainstream like we did, today a Bihari enages in dandia, aa Marwari sits down for Chatt Pooja, a Punjabi goes for Ganesh Chathurati and everyone loves Durga Puja- all of these are ethno-specific practices that today permeate all across India without any conflict- you cannot do something on that scale- hell the whole issue with Urdu's primacy is there- in our country if someone tried to supersede someone's vernacular it would be considered a crime by everyone..so civil exam candidates are not forced to learn one specific language- no bias nor any prejudice.

 

[Ayush]

me too n i hav to wake up earlyconfused:

but im leavin in mins....

so when does ur school start??
my class tomorrow from 8.30 mechanical drawing

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

han wae wae.....skirt n jeans n avast anti virus:p lol
sorry dun kno much abt these langs.....

Sanskrit & Avestan are both ancient Indo-Iranian languages belonging to the overall Indo-European family of languages.

then they too r do no like u n @Armstrongrolleyes:

Haha!

 

[Armstrong]

Ahemm..we've been over this before..at the end of the day..you could not promote other linguistic and ethnic practices to the mainstream like we did, today a Bihari enages in dandia, aa Marwari sits down for Chatt Pooja, a Punjabi goes for Ganesh Chathurati and everyone loves Durga Puja- all of these are ethno-specific practices that today permeate all across India without any conflict- you cannot do something on that scale- hell the whole issue with Urdu's primacy is there- in our country if someone tried to supersede someone's vernacular it would be considered a crime by everyone..so civil exam candidates are not forced to learn one specific language- no bias nor any prejudice.

We never did any of the Pooja Paath things that you did ! Ours was always a cultural that had evolved on the frontiers of British India with a lot of influence between the Punjabi Muslim, Pashtun, Baluch, Sindhi & Kashmiri Culture with even Trans-Cultural or Trans-Ethnic Identities being created like the Saraikis, the Hindkowans, the Potowharis etc.

So you will never see that dramatization that you guys do permeate our culture for that was never our thing ! We have never celebrated the Besaki or whatever its called ! And even Basant to us was something in an avowedly secular sense.

Our culture has less to do with the fusion of religion & culture as yours does - Much...much less in fact ! And so it doesn't make for a Bollywood-esque viewing by any stretch of the imagination.

And remarkably so our cultures are monolithic in many ways & then there are cultural tendencies to those commonalities such as Eid is Eid for us across the length & breadth of Pakistan but the Eid celebrated in KP is a bit different than the Eid celebrated in Pakistan ! Likewise Basant was celebrated across the length & breadth of Pakistan !

We don't really have any equivalent to a Saint Patrick's Day nor have we ever readily participated in Hindu or Sikh Religious Festivals doubling as Cultural Occasions !

You guys still don't get it do you ? Islam has left an indelible mark on us & one that has changed the cultural, linguistic, social, economic & even political & legal paradigm for us !

And there is no primacy of Urdu here - It is our Lingua Franca & a source of strength for us hence why it is our National Language ! Individual Provinces are free to do whatever they wish to do with their regional Languages & they do ! Punjab being mindful of the Punjabi Language being under no immediate threat & the presence of millions of non-Punjabi speakers in the Province haven't enforced an exclusionist identity by Institutionalizing Punjabi & has instead stuck with Urdu.

And the Civil Services Exams are in the English Language - Not Urdu ! In addition to that one can take up our regional languages along with some foreign languages as one of the subject papers that one wished to appear for & many do !

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Well according to our origin myths my ancestor's ancestor either spoke Hebrew or Aramaic (if we're going by the Lost Tribe thing), Sanskrit (if we're going by the Hindu Brahmin thing) or some Aryan Language if we're going by the Aryan Invasion thing !

The idea of the lost tribes of Israel residing among the Pasthuns & Kashmiris is a myth that originated after the arrival of Islam. You won't find any reference to these lost tribes in Pre-Islamic literature. These days, according to some sources I referred to in the past, members of the Ahmadiyya community also promote the baseless idea of Kashmiris being Israelites, in fact some even claim that Jesus visited Kashmir. Its impact was devastating enough to even affect the older generations, many of whom wanted closer ties to their new religion (Islam). That's the only reason these theories of descent from Semitic people remained slightly common among some people in the Sub-Continent. The lost tribes of Israel myth is applied to many other ethnic groups outside Asia as well. It doesn't have any significant basis among those other ethnic groups either. In Kashmir the theory was propagated due to some words like Koshur sounding similar to Hebrew words.

In reality the Kashmiri language actually belongs to the Indo-Iranian language family, the word Kashmir itself has roots in Sanskrit. Genetic tests also confirm that Kashmiris have no relation with Israelites or even other modern day Semitic people, & that should get rid of any remaining doubts. They are an Indo-Iranian people & arrived via migration through Andronovo with other Indo-Iranian tribes as per the Kurgan hypothesis on the origin of the proto-Indo-European people. According to this hypothesis the Indo-Iranian tribes migrated from the PIE (Proto-Indo-European) homeland to Andronovo & then to lands stretching from the Iranian plateau to the Indus. Interestingly, according to this hypothesis; the Greeks, the Latins (ancient Romans) & many other groups went from the PIE homeland to Europe & assimilated with the Paleolithic European population. The PIE homeland is generally considered to be a region around the Black Sea.

 

[Armstrong]

The idea of the lost tribes of Israel residing among....other groups went from the PIE homeland to Europe & assimilated with the Paleolithic European population. The PIE homeland is generally considered to be a region around the Black Sea.

I agree hence why they are called 'origin myths' !

But frankly I for one don't care whether my ancient ancestors were Brahmins from Kashmir or Chimpanzees from Africa for that knowledge has no bearing whatsoever on my present, especially if I'm avowedly against any form of ethno-linguistic nationalism !