Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

[Storm Force]

For months and months i have read, watched, various debates about South Asian air power changes taking place as we speak.

I have summarised this and come to my own conclusion.

In 1999 DURING KARGIL the PAF was at its weakest versis IAF this fact was demonsrated vivdley in the way the IAF where able to play a crucial part in the conflict with their bombing runs.

110 BVR capable MIG29M & MIRAGE2000H planes kept PAFS then 32 F16A/B at bay purely because the Vipers had only WVR weapons.
Since the war PAF have openly decalred they where in no position to take on the bvr equipped IAF.

Although the nos ratio was less than 2-1 in favour of IAF i believe india,s numerical superioity in 4 gen fighters of 3-1 with BVR esp gave iaf overall 3-1 superiority gap in 1999.

The su30 Flankers induction in 2000 and the mki in 2004 merely compounded this weakness up until now.

PAFs FIGHT BACK.

Has come in 3 forms. Frst the arrival of 32 F16/52s and upgrade to 42 F16 MLU = 76 Vipers by 2011.

Second the delivery of 50 Thunder kits for assemby by 2013 = 50 new bvr capable fighters from china and then 40 FC20 late 4gen fighters by 2015..

Third the introduction of AWACS by PAF via both Swden & china x 6 planes...

By 2015

6 AWACS

76 F16 52/MLU
50 Thunders MK1
40 FC20

166 BVR CAPABLE FIGHTERS will be a strong detterant to IAF

AT LEAST 250 more F7PG & mirage 5s WILL REMAIN in 2015....

Indian Threat in 2015....

To avoid argument on both PAF & ESP IAF accounts only definite orders are taken into account so MMRCA does not warrant mention until or if it happens. likewise follow on orders for Thunder have been excluded at this stage until the western upgrade or mk2 is offically ordered.

272 su30mki (120 in service already)
40 Tejas mk1 (ioc expected in 2011)
60 mig29 smt upgraded
51 mirage 2000-5 upgrade from H
70 jaguar darin 1/2
70 Mig27m

3 defo Phalcon Awacs

 

[Storm Force]

I have concluded looking at the 2 fleets in 2015 FROM 1999 that PAF has successfully reduced the GAP to no more than 2-1. in overall fire power.

The reason they will have at least 160 BVR platforms versis some 400 IAF plat forms..

PAF may well have more AWACS if IAF does not order the follow Phalcon order too for 3 more planes.

" Generall speaking a attacking force to have a good chance to win a air war needs a 3-1 firepower gap.

Unless of course you discount

RAF versis LUFTWAFFE in world war 2 wen the germans outnumberede the RAF by 4-1 ie 700 versis 3000. but RAF had better planes and some thing called RADAR ie real time intel. in 1944

OR an israeli type pre emptive air strike like in 1967 wen 265 israeli planes knocked out 3 arab air forces of 600 planes in one massive raid.

Any comments welcome

 

[aj_tech123]

so u think MKI,Mig-29 are not a Quality fighter against PAF's THUNDEr and F-16..!are u kiding....
Did the Arabs hav MKI or MIg 29 ..?
and also u left FGFA and the 126 MRCA..
and did u get the news..
IAF has selected RAFEAL or TYPHOON..
do u think they both are equal to F-16 every blocks etc...

 

[anathema]

so u think MKI,Mig-29 are not a Quality fighter against PAF's THUNDEr and F-16..!are u kiding....
Did the Arabs hav MKI or MIg 29 ..?
and also u left FGFA and the 126 MRCA..
and did u get the news..
IAF has selected RAFEAL or TYPHOON..
do u think they both are equal to F-16 every blocks etc...

No they havent ! Its speculation. Desi media.

 

[Dazzler]

Another speculative thread by legendary Storm Force. Bravo !!!!!

 

[prototype]

biggest joke was banking out 126 mmrca from the Indian fleet,when it is damn sure India is set to purchase it,they had only not selected it yet

 

[Donatello]

For months and months i have read, watched, various debates about South Asian air power changes taking place as we speak.

I have summarised this and come to my own conclusion.

In 1999 DURING KARGIL the PAF was at its weakest versis IAF this fact was demonsrated vivdley in the way the IAF where able to play a crucial part in the conflict with their bombing runs.

110 BVR capable MIG29M & MIRAGE2000H planes kept PAFS then 32 F16A/B at bay purely because the Vipers had only WVR weapons.
Since the war PAF have openly decalred they where in no position to take on the bvr equipped IAF.

Although the nos ratio was less than 2-1 in favour of IAF i believe india,s numerical superioity in 4 gen fighters of 3-1 with BVR esp gave iaf overall 3-1 superiority gap in 1999.

The su30 Flankers induction in 2000 and the mki in 2004 merely compounded this weakness up until now.

PAFs FIGHT BACK.

Has come in 3 forms. Frst the arrival of 32 F16/52s and upgrade to 42 F16 MLU = 76 Vipers by 2011.

Second the delivery of 50 Thunder kits for assemby by 2013 = 50 new bvr capable fighters from china and then 40 FC20 late 4gen fighters by 2015..

Third the introduction of AWACS by PAF via both Swden & china x 6 planes...

By 2015

6 AWACS

76 F16 52/MLU
50 Thunders MK1
40 FC20

166 BVR CAPABLE FIGHTERS will be a strong detterant to IAF

AT LEAST 250 more F7PG & mirage 5s WILL REMAIN in 2015....

Indian Threat in 2015....

To avoid argument on both PAF & ESP IAF accounts only definite orders are taken into account so MMRCA does not warrant mention until or if it happens. likewise follow on orders for Thunder have been excluded at this stage until the western upgrade or mk2 is offically ordered.

272 su30mki (120 in service already)
40 Tejas mk1 (ioc expected in 2011)
60 mig29 smt upgraded
51 mirage 2000-5 upgrade from H
70 jaguar darin 1/2
70 Mig27m

3 defo Phalcon Awacs

I can't point out enough on this carelessly written piece...


For your info, PAF will have more than 50 Jf-17s by 2015. There are already 20 of them. 20 more on the way by PAC.


More vipers than 76....as older US vipers become available PAF might go for them.


Not to mention the increased demand for FC-20s.


2015 is still far away, and PAF is aggressively working on that goal.



i think this thread will be another IAF vs PAF thread.

 

[mjnaushad]

Second the delivery of 50 Thunder kits for assemby by 2013 = 50 new bvr capable fighters from china and then 40 FC20 late 4gen fighters by 2015..

Does such BS comes with our neighbours National origin?????

FYI JFT is Pak-China Aircraft....So dont try to act smart....We know your mentality.....

 

[Donatello]

Close this thread because you know what will happen here.....

 

[Super Falcon]

i dont think so we can narrow the gap becoz 40 more mi 120 Mrca PAk-fa are due to come in next we need atleast 200 hi tech twin engine fighter jet if we ever need to come closer to the gap

 

[Malik Usman]

so u think MKI,Mig-29 are not a Quality fighter against PAF's THUNDEr and F-16..!are u kiding....
Did the Arabs hav MKI or MIg 29 ..?
and also u left FGFA and the 126 MRCA..
and did u get the news..
IAF has selected RAFEAL or TYPHOON..
do u think they both are equal to F-16 every blocks etc...

You need to have more information about F-16 it is the still best fighter plan of the world......not like russians which are using indians.....just look at the ration they are felling down every year compare to PAF figthers (Due to their quality, superiority and maintenance)

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

In 1999 DURING KARGIL the PAF was at its weakest versis IAF this fact was demonsrated vivdley in the way the IAF where able to play a crucial part in the conflict with their bombing runs.

And STILL india could not regain 4 strategic points that Pakistan took away.

 

[Safriz]

Not trying to fan any flames over here,and this thread can be a good knowledgeable one if we all participate with rational arguments instead of useless slurs.
In my opinion,and that is just my opinion...defense technology is cheaper than offense technology...IAF is vigorously investing in accumulating more fire power..While PAF is investing in defense measures..We all know how successful were Pakistan's shoulder mounted Anti aircraft missiles during Ksrgil war..IAF had to rethink their strategy and bring in the BVR munition.
Other members have mentioned what ever aicrafts PAF will be obtaining during the next few years,but IMO they should also concentrate on jamming technologies...IAF used GPS guided munition during kargil,and if we had used GPS jamming..None of their expensive smart munition had hit the target...Same can be said about radar guided and laser guided missiles..There are existing technologies to misguide these missiles,and those technologies are way cheaper than buying 5th generation planes and such.

 

[Safriz]

In addition to my above coment...i think PAF pilots and maintenance crew are more rigorously trained compared to IAF..I had a friend who was F-16 pilot in 2000-2001..At that tome American embargo was at full swing and PAF was not getting spare parts for their American planes specially F-16s..All the F-16 fleet was running in "Jugaar" as in "Urdu wala Jugaar". From aeronautical engineers to airmen,everybody was improvising and innovating ways to keep the F-16s in air..and we did not have any more crash incidents than we have in normal days..
The friend of mine told me that PAF is buying parts from wherever they can,and mainly from black market.None of the F-16s had a working ejection seat due to unavailability of spares,and how big a pilot's heart should be,to fly a plane,knowing that if something goes wrong they wont be able to bail out and will go down with the plane? we all can have a guess.

 

[PakSher]

biggest joke was banking out 126 mmrca from the Indian fleet,when it is damn sure India is set to purchase it,they had only not selected it yet

It will be 2020 before the 126 MMCRA are 100% operational but then IAF will have to retire the Jaguars and Harriers. Also by 2020 the Mig29s and Mirage 2000 will be 41 years old unless IAF goes for a midlife upgrade of the aircrafts.