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Myths about Urdu

Recently, Indian film maker Mahesh Bhatt, whose mother was a Shia Muslim, wrote about one of his childhood memories as follows:

"A memory bubble bursts... The year is 1958. I am barely nine years old. The atmosphere in our house is sombre. One of the finest flowers of Indian renaissance, Maulana Azad, is dead. My mother is listening to a live relay of his funeral procession on the All India Radio Urdu service. Suddenly my father, who is equally upset by the death of this great nationalist, storms into the house. On hearing the Urdu relay, he angrily says, “Put this Radio Pakistan off! I want to hear this news in Hindi, not in Urdu!” My mother meekly does so, but I can see that she is deeply hurt."


Haq's Musings: Saving Urdu in India--its Birthplace

Haq's Musings: Obama on Pakistan, Urdu Poetry, Cricket, Daal, Keema

sir sir sir
i m not saying tht its not a pakistani language or mislim's language. yar i m 4rm Lucknow. kabhi aana ho to jarur batiega.and han most important it is also an indian language which is also spoken by millions of indians.
so finally it means when u talk abut urdu it does not always mean pakistan or muslims only.

and plzz plzzz dont 4rg8 Munsi Premchandra ,a gr8 writer of urdu
 
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Urdu undoubtedly is the softest language possibly on the earth. Besides being sweet to the ears an outstanding characteristic of this language is the ability to convey so much in so little.

The sentiment conveyed in old hindi songs could not be done in any other language with the same effect. For those who may be concerned , I feel the movie Mughal - e - Azam has the best Urdu songs & dialogues - my views entirely.

The revenue & police records in N India even today consists of Urdu words spelt in Hindi.Its a fine adaptation of the relevant & practical. Quite unlike hindi wherein sometimes one has to seek meanings of words heard in the AIR news.

How many languages do u know??

every language is distinct in its own way...especially old classical languages of india like sanskrit, Bengali,Oriya ,Tamil,Telegu who have been around for a longtime have a vast reservoir of words much more than recent ones like hindustani/urdu who orgininated by assimilating other languages .
 
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sir sir sir
i m not saying tht its not a pakistani language or mislim's language. yar i m 4rm Lucknow. kabhi aana ho to jarur batiega.and han most important it is also an indian language which is also spoken by millions of indians.
so finally it means when u talk abut urdu it does not always mean pakistan or muslims only.

and plzz plzzz dont 4rg8 Munsi Premchandra ,a gr8 writer of urdu

Urdu was never a pakistani language before it became the national language of pakistan...its not a mother tongue any of its natives .Urdu is basically a north indian languge who trace its origin to persian language used as official lang during moghul era that came in contact with local dialect khari boli of north india .
 
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How many languages do u know??

every language is distinct in its own way...especially old classical languages of india like sanskrit, Bengali,Oriya ,Tamil,Telegu who have been around for a longtime have a vast reservoir of words much more than recent ones like hindustani/urdu who orgininated by assimilating other languages .

Note , I used the word " possibly".

No contest on other languages either.
 
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This thread reminded me something .. I am sharing with you guys.. I was roaming in capetown and found few young guns who were speaking in same language as I do..I said Hi to them and started discussing .. ofcourse I got few ppl after a long time who were speaking in same language as I don..they were from Pakistan and came here to play hockey.. While departing I said to them it is really good to talk to some one after a long time in HINDI.. and then one of them corrected me in URDU.. I smiled and moved away... and trust me guys I am still smiling reading this discussion...
 
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Alright. All Indians saying here is Urdu is basically an Indian language. If i believe for a min that it is. What now.? you'll protest against it to.:coffee:
 
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Alright. All Indians saying here is Urdu is basically an Indian language. If i believe for a min that it is. What now.? you'll protest against it to.:coffee:

No. Just thought, you have got correct info.
 
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here is the breakdown k

hindi---sanskrit origin/ for hindus since theyre holy book is in sanskrit

urdu---persian origin therefore a muslim language since it shares most of its alphabets and gramar style with arabic

Punjabi --- written in both sanskrit and persian style

whats the debate here ??

Read the article again, the root of Urdu gammar is kari boli. It uses persian script but that doesn't changes the verb subject formation of sentences e.t.c. I have studied both Urdu and Arabic langauge and there is nothing common in their gammar or sentence formation. Urdu borrowed words from the persian and arabic language and urdised (Indianised) them. Gammar and script are two different things. The acid test is try and speak in Urdu to a farsi or arabic speaker and see how much you can communicate and then try the same with a Hindi speaker.

If I use Urdu words in roman script does that make it English? No. Similarly if I use the urdu langauge with a persian script it doesn't make it arabic or farsi origin.

And Urdu being a "muslim" language is another convenient myth. If that was true, do muslims outside the sub-continet speak Urdu? And what about pashto speaking muslims or south Indian muslims who wouldn't have a clue about Urdu. Same goes for the Bengali speakers. Are they "less" muslim just because they don't know Urdu?

The average Indian and possibly the average pakistani, can't understand heavily sanskritised hindi or heavily persianised urdu. They have to stay in the middle and thats what the Bollywood movies tend to follow as well.
 
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Read the article again, the root of Urdu gammar is kari boli. It uses persian script but that doesn't changes the verb subject formation of sentences e.t.c. I have studied both Urdu and Arabic langauge and there is nothing common in their gammar or sentence formation. Urdu borrowed words from the persian and arabic language and urdised (Indianised) them. Gammar and script are two different things. The acid test is try and speak in Urdu to a farsi or arabic speaker and see how much you can communicate and then try the same with a Hindi speaker.

If I use Urdu words in roman script does that make it English? No. Similarly if I use the urdu langauge with a persian script it doesn't make it arabic or farsi origin.

And Urdu being a "muslim" language is another convenient myth. If that was true, do muslims outside the sub-continet speak Urdu? And what about pashto speaking muslims or south Indian muslims who wouldn't have a clue about Urdu. Same goes for the Bengali speakers. Are they "less" muslim just because they don't know Urdu?

The average Indian and possibly the average pakistani, can't understand heavily sanskritised hindi or heavily persianised urdu. They have to stay in the middle and thats what the Bollywood movies tend to follow as well.
EjazR,

Couldn't say it better. Language has two basic elements.
The Linguistic and the Phonetics. The Phonetics is the root of a language's ancestry and to that point Urdu and Hindi mirror each other 90% times.
 
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To All,

Urdu is a very sweet language. Dont fight on this. I am from Banars , one of the biggest cultural hub in India . I can also bet on that Banars/Allahabad has the biggest share in developing Urdu than Lucknow,Delhi and Hyderabad . Further ;even today we use almost urdu in our daily life . If any body heard Urdu in Lucknow he might know what Tahzeeb means . Same in Banars.
 
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We Indians and Pakistanis basically speak the same language...ours is called Hindi...and is a sanskritized Hindustani...and the Pakistanis speak a persianized hindustani...
to understand these small differences watch news on PTV and on doordarshan...the news presenters speak what the state wants us to speak.
It is difficult for a normal chap like me top get anything out of both the Snakritized hindi and persianized urdu...
 
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I am amazed that a scholarly discussion is being given a sectarian (Hindu Muslim) and ethnic twist in this thread. Let us remember that language has no religion neither does it have a nationality. It is just a means of interaction between individuals.

French was the preeminent language of Europe during 19th century. Arabic is spoken in nearly a dozen countries. Persian was the prevalent language in most of the central Asian countries until 19th century. Turkish and its dialects are spoken in about half dozen counties including large parts of Iran. English is a universal language spoken by nearly all nationalities with varied religious beliefs.

Similarly Urdu is neither a Muslim language nor a Pakistani language. It is however most widely understood language in the subcontinent even though in various guises.

I fell in love with Urdu while a young student in Lahore. Primarily because my room mate at the New Hostel at the Gov't College was an Urdu Honors student. Since then, I have carried out my own research on the origins of Urdu and come to the following conclusions. I don’t claim these to be truth and nothing but the truth, however IMO it is a close approximation to the truth.

Mother of all languages in Punjab, Sind and North/Central India is Brij Bhasha or Viraj Bhasha spoken in the area around Mathura, Agra and Delhi. Muslim invasion of Sind in the early 8th century give rise to new language which we now know as Sindhi. Seraiki is probably an older Indo Iranian language but Arabic alphabets were adopted quite early. After reading Heer of Waris Shah, it dawned on me that Punjabi was also very closely related to the Brij Bhasha. Other language of the same family is Hindko. Nearly all of these languages are mutually intelligible.

Amir Khusro (d. 1325) describes himself as a Hinduvi speaking Toork and language used in his poetry is a very mildly Turkicized Brij Bhasha. Devangari script was used until this time. Modern Urdu started in the Deccan (Golconda and Bijapore). Sultan Quli Qutub Shah, who established Qutub Shahi Kingdom in the 16th century, was for my money the founder of Urdu as we know it written in Persian/Arabic script. Qutub Shah was followed by Wali Deccani (d.1704) and Siraj Aurangabadi (d. 1763). By this time Urdu had also established itself in the courts of Delhi and Lukhnow and we had the golden age of Urdu poetry with Sauda (d 1780) Dard (d. 1785) Mir Taqi Mir (d. 1810) Inshaa (d. 817) Naasikh (d. 1834 Ghalib (d. 1869) Mir Anis (d. 1874) and finally Daagh (d. 1905).

Punjab came into prominence a bit late with Mohammad Husain Azad (d. 910) and Iqbal (d 1938). However majority of the modern Urdu poets such as Faiz Ahmad Faiz, Hafeez Jallandhery, Hafeez Hoshiar Puri, Sufi Tabbassam, Saahir Ludhianvi etc. were Punjabis. The great Ahmad Faraaz was Hindko speaking. Mantoo and Abdul Majid Saalik were also Punjabis.

Among non Muslim modern Urdu writers are Ameer Chand Bahaar, Bhagwan Das Ejaz, Sohan Rahi, Indra Mohan Kaif, Deepak Qamar, Asha Prabhat, Inder Shabnam, Kamini Devi, Navroz Kotwal (is he a Parsi, I guess so). Poets of Ghazal include PP Srivastava Rind, Pratpal Singh Betab, Ganesh Bihari Tarz, Premi Romani, Khushbir Singh Shaad, Vijay Arun, Ishwar Dutt Anjum, Rajinder Nath Rahbar, Atul Ajnabi, Harendra Giri Shaad, Om Prabhakar, Tilak Raj Paras, AksLucknowi, Ashshaq Kishtwari, Sardar Panchhi, Prem Bhandari, Vishal Khullar, Shailesh Wafa and Preeta Vajpayee amongst others. Let us not forget Pandit Ratan Naath Sarshaar, creater of 'Fassana Azad'

First Urdu book (Bagho Bahaar) ever printed was at Fort William College Press in Calcutta in 1804 under the blessings of Lord Wellesley. This was translation of Persian ‘Qissa Chahar Dervish' in Urdu by Mir Amman Dehlavi.

At the time of partition in 1947, Lahore boasted the largest Urdu bazaar in the subcontinent; largest numbers of Urdu newspapers were also published in Lahore.

Thus my honorable friends; Urdu is not a Muslim language; it is not a north Indian language. Whatever your mother tongue may be, Urdu doesn’t seek to replace it. It is just a beautiful language adopted by Pakistan as national language and by IOK as their official language. Whether you like it or not, it will remain a beautiful language which it no doubt is.
 
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I guess all arguments stop here. Let me recap. Muslims invade India. Rules for over a 1000 years. Language changes. Urdu comes into existence. British rules for 300 years and leave English behind. Now whats next, do you want Indians to purify themselves and go back to the original languages. That is not possible. It is now become a part of our identity. Plus there is no need for that in a mature society like India. We don't feel threatened by foreign languages.

Same is true for Pakistan - can you replace Urdu with Arabic or Persian? I don't think so. Languages evolve naturally and very slowly. It is really difficult to impose them. Even Urdu has not gotten to the masses yet. It is your national language but majority don't speak it. It will take centuries before it becomes a language of the masses.

As long as BollyWood is, Urdu will remain in India. South Indian movies are good too with sub title in roman.

if kabi kushi kabi ghum was made in hindi its name would have been kabi Hersh kabi Shok
 
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I guess all arguments stop here. Let me recap. Muslims invade India. Rules for over a 1000 years. Language changes. Urdu comes into existence. British rules for 300 years and leave English behind. Now whats next, do you want Indians to purify themselves and go back to the original languages. That is not possible. It is now become a part of our identity. Plus there is no need for that in a mature society like India. We don't feel threatened by foreign languages.

Muslim ruled major parts of india for 600yrs ...from the death of PrithiviRaj chouhan in 1192 to roughly 1800 Ad by which the British taken over and some parts like Utkal (Odisa) came under the muslim rule only after 1550 AD with the moghul invasions and so was the case of some states in the south.

Similarly the British become dominant only after 1800Ad and ruled india for more than 100yrs till 1947.
 
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What is the difference between Urdu and Hindi? Other than the way you write it?
 
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